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I have a Pinnacle Arkose 2016 which I bought on the cycle to work scheme.  I have put about 6k on it and ride on and off road.  I have a set of Hunt 4 season wheels as well as the originals so I can have a set with road tyres and a set with off road tyres.  It was when I had the off road tyres on that I noticed that the rear wheel was out of alignment.  

I realigned the rear wheel and checked the quick release and it seemed tight enough, certainly as tight as I have had them on any other bike but the wheel still went out of alignment.

 

I’ve been to Evans twice with each set of wheels.  The first time they said that the quick release wasn’t tight enough and swapped it for a Shimano one (on my off road wheels).  The second time to kept the bike over the weekend and called Pinnacle, who apparently said it was down to the quick release drop out combination, and they had tried another quick release and it they couldn’t get it to move, they gave me back my old (Hunt) quick release. 

All seemed ok but I’ve just move back to my off road set of wheels and the Shimano quick release and I noticed that the wheel has move again can’t seem to turn the adjuster which now seems to be locked.      

 

The last bit of information is that the wheel moves out of alignment to the left (near side – non gear side – brake side) every time and seems to move by the same amount.

I’ve had bikes with vertical dropouts for years and never had any issues.  So my question is it normal that you need to tighten the quick release to a stage where you can barely lock them or do people think there may be something wrong with my vertical drop outs?  

Any advice or recommendations welcome.

41 comments

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Drinfinity wrote:

So it does! Good to hear it’s fixed now.

It seems to be fixed but having to have the QR super tight! 

Got plenty of metalweld so can just keep topping it up if it goes again. 

 

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Daddylonglegs wrote:

Drifinity pointed out that the photo I may have been looking at was the example pic and not the OP's. I think he's right. Nevertheless Tugglesthegreat's pics did not show the spacing with the QR removed. It's important to do this because you need to see the rear triangle in a neutral, unflexed state and an open QR can still put some tension on the dropouts. He then needs to drop the wheel in - QR removed - to see how the spacing looks.

In the past when most people had steel frames this could be remedied by hand (and sometimes feet, legs and a piece of 4x2) by physically bending out the rear triangle to the correct width and then - and this was the important bit - using a pair of alignment tools to reset the dropouts. I doubt this is easy or even possible with aluminium or titanium. And certainly not with carbon fibre!

I'll try and get some pics and measurements tonight and will post of the wheel in the drop outs sans QR.

I think aluminium has a tendancy to work harden when bent so it's not a good idea bending it. 

 

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Daddylonglegs wrote:

Drifinity pointed out that the photo I may have been looking at was the example pic and not the OP's. I think he's right. Nevertheless Tugglesthegreat's pics did not show the spacing with the QR removed. It's important to do this because you need to see the rear triangle in a neutral, unflexed state and an open QR can still put some tension on the dropouts. He then needs to drop the wheel in - QR removed - to see how the spacing looks.

Find attached to this post the measurement across the rear triangle, another two posts of the disc side and grear side hub in situ with the QR removed.

Looks to me that the frame spacing is 137-138mm, so about 2-3mm out.  Doesn't seem too bad to me, and trying to hold the drop outs in so that they are both touching the hub can be done by hand with not too much pressure.

 

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Disc side

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Gear side with a gap of about 2-3mm

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Daddylonglegs [34 posts] 1 year ago
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Okay, that's a pain. I was thinking we might see a good 5mm or more gap, so that's likely not the problem (although it could be better). You need to check the dropouts are exactly in line with each other and parallel. Without a specialist tool this isn't easy. The best you can do is put the wheel in without the QR and pull the axle FULLY into the dropouts then measure the distance from the rim to the chainstays on both sides (you may need to take the tyre off). They should be at least about the same. Don't expect complete precision, but if it's obviously way off (around 5mm or more) there's likely to be a problem. Just to say, it's very unlikely that the frame is significantly out of alignment, but it's good to eliminate the possibilities. If it goes back to the dealer/importer they will likely check all this themselves.

If you can eliminate these issues for sure then it sounds like it is most probably down to a problem with the dropout/QR combination as suggested by the shop and importer. As a rule of thumb, particularly when you're having these sorts of problems, don't use 'lightweight' (and often over-priced) QR's with aluminium gripping parts and don't use 'open' QR's (cam mechanism exposed) because they have less gripping area. QR's that are both aluminium and open are a recipe for trouble. You need decent quality good old steel enclosed cam QR's - done up tightly . You should need to push hard to close it.

In the end, if your wheel just won't stay in position no matter what you do within reason you have redress to the shop. I can't see that they'll be unreasonable about this. Inefficient and slow maybe, but not willfully unhelpful...

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Daddylonglegs wrote:

If you can eliminate these issues for sure then it sounds like it is most probably down to a problem with the dropout/QR combination as suggested by the shop and importer. As a rule of thumb, particularly when you're having these sorts of problems, don't use 'lightweight' (and often over-priced) QR's with aluminium gripping parts and don't use 'open' QR's (cam mechanism exposed) because they have less gripping area. QR's that are both aluminium and open are a recipe for trouble. You need decent quality good old steel enclosed cam QR's - done up tightly . You should need to push hard to close it.

OK, the open QRs do seem to be less than ideal.  I may just buy some closed ones, like these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-ultegra-skewers-quick-release/3233050...

Should be lighter than full steel but have the closed cam, ie a cam going through the end of the skewer - more surface area, and steel on steel surface area.

 

 

 

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Daddylonglegs [34 posts] 1 year ago
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Yes, they should be ok. Shimano XT are good too (probably identical working parts). Tbh, QR's are one of those things that are best kept straightforward (and usually cheaper). There are better and safer things to save weight on. Once you've eliminated the QR question for sure, along with frame alignment and you're still pulling the wheel out then it's definitely time to speak to Evans again and expect a result. If decent, reputable, well tried and tested QR's done up properly won't work then nothing will. 

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Daddylonglegs wrote:

Yes, they should be ok. Shimano XT are good too (probably identical working parts). Tbh, QR's are one of those things that are best kept straightforward (and usually cheaper). There are better and safer things to save weight on. Once you've eliminated the QR question for sure, along with frame alignment and you're still pulling the wheel out then it's definitely time to speak to Evans again and expect a result. If decent, reputable, well tried and tested QR's done up properly won't work then nothing will. 

Ordered some now, waiting for the post man. 

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 1 year ago
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Daddylonglegs wrote:

Yes, they should be ok. Shimano XT are good too (probably identical working parts). Tbh, QR's are one of those things that are best kept straightforward (and usually cheaper). There are better and safer things to save weight on. Once you've eliminated the QR question for sure, along with frame alignment and you're still pulling the wheel out then it's definitely time to speak to Evans again and expect a result. If decent, reputable, well tried and tested QR's done up properly won't work then nothing will. 

OK, the new QR took a while, they ended up in Wales and I had to get them redirected to South East London, that's another story. 

Current situation, I added some more metal weld on the gear side drop out and installed the new QRs - Shimano Ultegra. I rode to work and the wheel is still centred.  This seems to have done the trick.  The Shimano QR do feel really good, easy to get tight and feel secure.  I did buy two pair of QRs so I have these on both wheels now.

As I have said before I don't have the old - original QR, but I do have the orgininal from QR.  This seems to have a further spring by the leaver so seems to cause resistance some of the enery going into tighening will go into compressing that.  I think the cause of all these issues were the orginal QR supplied with the bike.

 

 

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tugglesthegreat [125 posts] 10 months ago
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tugglesthegreat wrote:
Daddylonglegs wrote:

Yes, they should be ok. Shimano XT are good too (probably identical working parts). Tbh, QR's are one of those things that are best kept straightforward (and usually cheaper). There are better and safer things to save weight on. Once you've eliminated the QR question for sure, along with frame alignment and you're still pulling the wheel out then it's definitely time to speak to Evans again and expect a result. If decent, reputable, well tried and tested QR's done up properly won't work then nothing will. 

OK, the new QR took a while, they ended up in Wales and I had to get them redirected to South East London, that's another story. 

Current situation, I added some more metal weld on the gear side drop out and installed the new QRs - Shimano Ultegra. I rode to work and the wheel is still centred.  This seems to have done the trick.  The Shimano QR do feel really good, easy to get tight and feel secure.  I did buy two pair of QRs so I have these on both wheels now.

As I have said before I don't have the old - original QR, but I do have the orgininal from QR.  This seems to have a further spring by the leaver so seems to cause resistance some of the enery going into tighening will go into compressing that.  I think the cause of all these issues were the orginal QR supplied with the bike.

I was in a cross race at weekend and got bumped from behind and that stripped the quick release skewer nut.  Are the quick releases too tight? 

 

 

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