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Canyon have updated their Grail range already but across the range the bikes are all 200g heavier. I can't seem to work out why. What am I missing?

I'm comparing between old & new 105 and Ultegra models. Sram is new for 2019. All the spec looks the same with the exception of tan walled Schwalbes. Have they changed the frame, or even their famed 'hover bar'?

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longassballs [109 posts] 6 months ago
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Looking closer the famous bar is now a "CP07 COCKPIT CF" rather than "CP01 COCKPIT CF". I wonder what's changed?

Also the Ultegra models have the new RX derailleur but that's only  38g heavier than the normal one,

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brettoau [5 posts] 6 months ago
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I just ordered a 2019 GRAIL CF SL 8.0 - https://www.canyon.com/en-au/road/grail/grail-cf-sl-8-0.html

I sent Canyon support a question about the new CP07 cockpit as the integrated garmin mount does not list it as being supported, this is what they replied with - "The new Grail cockpit will run the same Garmin mount as the old one. The new CP07 has slightly more compliance than the old CP01 cockpit found on the 1st generation Grail we understand."

One thing I noticed is the 2019 CF SL 8.0 now comes with the leaf spring seatpost rather than the regular one. Not sure what else contributes to the extra 300grams (other than the RX derailleur).

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Grayl [4 posts] 6 months ago
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The top of the range SLX 8.0 Di2 version appears to be 300g heavier than its 2018 equivalent. In the Di2 version the RX derailleur is 31g heavier than non-RX. As the previous poster said, the CP07 cockpit may be heavier than CP01 but Canyon doesn't provide any info on that. Another couple of small differences for the top of the range model are: Aliante R5 saddle in 2019 v Aliante R3 in 2018. I can't find any info on weight difference. Fizik don't even acknowledge the existence of the R5 on their website. Maybe it is for OEM use only. Different model number for the casette but unlikely to be any significant weight difference. Those tan tyre walls must be very heavy  3

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longassballs [109 posts] 6 months ago
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Ha.. This is the answer I received from Canyon "Apologies if there is any confusion, there has been no change at all to the cockpit it is the same as what was spec'd on the 2018 model. The weight increase has come from A) The clutch derailleur B) Heavier tyres." The correct answer obviously depends who you speak to. I could be described as paranoid but I find it curious that considering the amount of press the launch received there has been nothing about the 2019 updates.

Congrats on ordering the bike! I have been mulling over pushing the button for a few days after hunting for over a year for a gravel bike since my cross bike was destroyed by a car... I've gotten over the bar and lack of tyre clearance compared to something like the Open Up with the mudguard mounts being a big selling point for me, so I asked about the Grail specific mudguards that still aren't for sale. "As of yet we have no news of the specific fender set, personally I find the SKS clip on guards to be more than secure enough."

That's not really good enough for me. Why would I buy a bike with mounts only to use clip-ons? I don't know any other mudguards that will fit securely because of the Gail's lack of a brake bridge either.

The new Giant Repulse is on my mind now but the Grail price is so attractive. I have a friend who lives near the Canyon Factory in Koblenz so am thinking about a test ride but that won't happen for a few months. Would love to hear from you about how the bike rides and if you attempt any mudguards

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brettoau [5 posts] 6 months ago
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That answer from Canyon doesn't explain why the 2019 SL 8.0 is now heavier than the SL 8.0 Di2, given the Di2 groupset is heavier than the mechanical.

- SL 8.0 8.4kg to 8.7kg

- SL 8.0 Di2 8.54kg to 8.6kg

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/tools/bike-comparison/#biketype=1&bike1=448...

My reason for buying is basically I have an old heavy dually MTB and a very aggressive aero road bike setup for crit racing. I'm going to Sth America at the end of the year for 5 weeks and will be riding a mix of paved and unpaved roads up in the mountains. I figure I can take just this bike and and some extra road tyres (not sure if 28mm or 32mm would be best?) and switch as necessary depending on whats planned for the day. After that I will use it for commutes and some weekend rides, don't see myself doing the whole bikepacking thing anytime soon. So the small foldable clip in mudguard will do me.

I'm also interested to see if the additional hand positions available and top flex area help reduce issues with pins and needles/numbness in my hands as an after effect of chemo I get when riding my other bikes.

The expected delivery date is near the end of November so no review any time soon!

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StoopidUserName [560 posts] 6 months ago
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I was told by canyon uk the grail doesn't have mudguard mounts...so it sort of has them? Though missing a temp bridge at the mo?

 

EDIT: Actually no, it was the new inflite I was thinking of! They've taken the mounts that were previously on that...off.

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longassballs [109 posts] 5 months ago
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Aw shit... I neglected to check availability. I thought your delivery date might have been because you were in the US or something. I really wanted one soon.

Yeah I don't see myself bike packing either. Lack of 650b support (at least officially?) and mtb tyres sort of prevents the Grail from a go anywhere bike anyway I think - especially with clearance reduced with mudguards. Neither was I planning anything quite as exotic as S. America but some canal towpaths I have vowed never to go on again unless on mtb tyres.

Apart from that I think I kinda had the same idea for this bike as you; stick some road tyres / change wheels and use the grail as a winter road bike. That's where the mudguards come in plus going off road and coming back with an almost clean bike is great.

Talking of which had a couple of further replies from Canyon. About mudguards: "There will be fenders for the Grail, we are currently awaiting confirmation on the date they will be available. We are expecting to release the Canyon Grail specific mudguards this Autumn."

I questioned them further about the bars and they didn't know about any change but unprompted said they would get back to me, credit to them they did: "It's been re-engineered slightly so that it now comes with a STI clamp which can accept, SRAM, Shimano, and Campagnolo lever. The cockpit is also 20grams lighter than the original and is 10% more compliant for increased comfort when riding. The ergonomics of the dropped bar position has also been optimised to lessen the rear to the brake lever, as well as reducing pressure on your thumbs."

So the new bar is actually lighter!

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Grayl [4 posts] 5 months ago
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Great to hear that the Grail specific mudguards will be available soon! I have searched a lot online and so far have not found anything that would obviously fit the Grail using the eyelets. I have the 2018 model and I can say that the eyelets are not standard. They are smaller than the standard bottle-cage bolt size of M5. They must be either M4 or M3. Also, they are mostly not in standard places. At the rear there are a pair of eyelets part way up the seatstays on the inside, as well as one part way up the seat post around the height of the front derailleur attachment (not down by the bottom bracket as normal). There is no seatstay bridge nor a chainstay bridge so no fixing points there. At the front they are part way up the forks, again on the inside, as well as in the u at the top of the fork (i.e. facing down to the ground, not going horizontally through the bottom of the headtube).

Mine is size XS. It comes with 650B wheels. It also has 140mm disc rotors instead of 160mm and a 52/36 crank instead of 50/34. I have some 700C wheels with 25mm road tyres. The rims are quite wide with internal width of 21mm so the 25mm tyres actually come out at 28mm, and presumably smaller radius than on a narrower rim. The whole wheel and tyre combination is only 5mm larger radius than the 650B wheels with 40mm G-Ones. They fit fine on the Grail for me, with no toe overlap or any other problem.

 

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Gravelx21 [1 post] 5 months ago
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Grayl wrote:

It also has 140mm disc rotors instead of 160mm and a 52/36 crank instead of 50/34.

I was a little confused when I received the bike with a 52/36 as every website spec states 50/34... not as versatile for the type of riding really. Enquired with Canyon and they say it’s an error on the website apparently.

Went out and fitted a 11-40T M8000 cassette and now over the moon with the cranks, flys on the flat and spins up hill. Running Di2 and the bike accepts the larger range cassette by just adjusting the B screw for anyone who’s interested. (Cage isn’t stretched either because of the derailleur length + standard extender)

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longassballs [109 posts] 5 months ago
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Yeah that is weird. I didn't pick that detail up when Grayl first posted it. Sounds like they ran out of 50/34 cranks? Not sure about the 40t cassette for myself. Originally I wanted it to pull double duty as a winter road bike but I've just bought a Felt VR for that, so maybe bigger jumps between the cogs won't be such an issue. Actually reconsidering whether I need a double at all...

Grayl, useful information, thanks. I don't think the front mounts will be a problem. Fitted a pair of mudguards before with eyelets half way up the inside of the fork and it was fine, just a little more unstable than if they were at the dropouts. Issue for you on an XS may be toe overlap only.

As for the rear, yeah, that's more unusual. *Might* again be more of a problem for you on a smaller bike as I have read that often a plastic temporary seat stay bridge is supplied as a fixing point but as per a comment at the bottom of this article (long read) https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/221187-12-best-mudguard-compatible-... this guy had no end of problems with only one size for medium/larger bikes made by BMC. The launch photos of the grail didn't look like they used a temp bridge though, from memory. I'm about to deal with manufacturers own mudguards myself as I will be trying to fit Felt's own mudguards on my new bike when I get it. Then all these own brand mudguards seem to be really short and leave you looking for a DIY mud flap solution.

Canyon are having some sort of event in the Rapha store in Manchester this weekend so I'm gonna go take a look myself at their range. Good op for anyone in the area

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longassballs [109 posts] 5 months ago
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Oh! Forgot to ask! How the hell do those bars ride?

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Grayl [4 posts] 5 months ago
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Hi, just to clarify, it is the size 2XS and XS that come with 650B wheels, 140mm rotors and 52/36 crank. I believe the size S and above come with the specs on the website.

Longassballs, I bought the bike because of everything else about it and despite the cockpit but I do like the ability to hook my thumbs over the lower joint with the horizontal part when on descents. I spend most of the time on the hoods which are no different from those on a conventional handlebar. I haven't really tested the tops much yet so haven't noticed much difference from normal ones.

Thanks for the thoughts about mudguard fit. Please let us know how you get on with your mudguard fitting.

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longassballs [109 posts] 5 months ago
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Saw the 2018 bike at Rapha in Manchester last weekend. Was one of those things though where there were 6 bikes and 6 staff in a big room and couldn't just look at the bikes. I still wasn't convinced about the bars swapping where the compliance was. The Canyon lad said the drops were now super stiff for sprinting but I said when would I be sprinting on this bike?

Said I was also interested in an Aeroad but would probably wait for a new version. He frowned and answered that there definitely wasn't one in the pipeline. I countered that the design is four years old and was prepared to wait a year or two. He still stridently denied it which made me doubt anything else he had to say. Though apparently the Grail mudguards are made by Topeak, out soon and have what he called full coverage - which I took to be longer than most proprietary fenders but not as long as actual full coverage. Not that I was expecting them to be anyway.

Saying all that... I came home and ordered a 8.0 Grail! Still not sure but saw that the delivery date had stretched to start if Feb and was totally unaware that you didn't have to pay until the due date. Seems ages away, but I guess it also gives me plenty of time to cancel if I change my mind...

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Grayl [4 posts] 4 months ago
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Congratulations on your order longassballs. Good to hear the mudguards are coming soon. If you want a Grail sooner and if you'd be happy with a 2018 SLX 8.0 Di2 model they have various sizes available in the Outlet section of the website. They're called "Pure Cycling" which is apparently the name of the brand in Switzerland. Instead of "Canyon" on the downtube they have "Grail". I guess they may have the brake levers configured the opposite way round from UK norm if they were built for the Swiss market.

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brettoau [5 posts] 4 months ago
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Well the estimated completion date of mid Nov for my Grail has just been delayed 3 weeks. Now I don't know if I will receive it in Australia by the time I leave on my cycling holiday just before Xmas. May have to cancel the order if so  2

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MTBRider456 [2 posts] 3 months ago
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My date for Mid November moved last week to early March 2019......I thought Canyon had grown out of this?

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longassballs [109 posts] 3 months ago
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What bike did you order? Guess it doesn't sound good for my copper 8.0 M due early Feb.

The mudguards still haven't appeared either

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Gravel Garry [1 post] 2 months ago
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Gravelx21 wrote:
Grayl wrote:

It also has 140mm disc rotors instead of 160mm and a 52/36 crank instead of 50/34.

I was a little confused when I received the bike with a 52/36 as every website spec states 50/34... not as versatile for the type of riding really. Enquired with Canyon and they say it’s an error on the website apparently.

I was surprised (and not happy) when my XS Grail arrived with a 52/36. I complained to Canyon and they sent me a 50/34 replacement for free.

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MTBRider456 [2 posts] 2 months ago
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@longassballs Can't remember the exact spec - not the top end carbon frame, but the next carbon frame down, Di2, alloy rims.  In grey + Large.

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Xenophon2 [11 posts] 2 months ago
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I ordered the CF 8.0 SL exactly 9 days ago in size M.  On the site it showed availability for delivery mid December.  Literally 3 minutes after hitting the button I received a mail mentioning delivery in the week of Feb 25 - 1 March.  Not that I'm pining away waiting for the bike but still....

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Weynb [1 post] 2 months ago
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I ordered a CF 8.0 SL as well, at the start of September, with a delivery date of first week in December.  Having heard nothing I contacted Canyon yesterday - during the second week in Dec. - who told me that the bike would now not be ready until 1st week in March.  This has screwed up my plans and needless to say I'm really p**sed off with both the delay and complete lack of info from their customer services.  By the time I get the bike (if I don't cancel the order) I'll have waited 6 months for it and they will be announcing the 2020 models a few months later!

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Kadinkski [806 posts] 2 months ago
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Weynb wrote:

I ordered a CF 8.0 SL as well, at the start of September, with a delivery date of first week in December.  Having heard nothing I contacted Canyon yesterday - during the second week in Dec. - who told me that the bike would now not be ready until 1st week in March.  This has screwed up my plans and needless to say I'm really p**sed off with both the delay and complete lack of info from their customer services.  By the time I get the bike (if I don't cancel the order) I'll have waited 6 months for it and they will be announcing the 2020 models a few months later!

That's astoundingly bad customer service, even for them. You're mad if you don't cancel the order.

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andyjtiger [2 posts] 1 month ago
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I had exactly the same bike on order.  Ordered early September with delivery due first week December.  Week before delivery came the email delaying until end February/Early March.

Cancelled within the hour and got a Giant Revolt on order from my LBS.  Won't be going near Canyon anytime soon, thats for sure.

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Xenophon2 [11 posts] 1 month ago
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Update:  Received word from Canyon that my bike will be delivered earlier than scheduled, I should get it around Feb. 4.  A lot more palatable than Feb. 28-Mar. 5 (but still a tidy difference compared to mid December as they initially announced).  

If anyone has a recommendation for a good, powerful headlight (preferably not too blinding for other traffic) that will attach to the funnily shaped cockpit, please shoot.  

 

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bikezero [62 posts] 1 month ago
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https://www.decathlon.co.uk/vioo-clip-500-usb-set-black-id_8501200.html

I've been using these cheerfully cheap decathlon usb-chargable lights for near 6 months now. Very powerful indeed in terms of brightness, especially for the compact size.
I really would not want anything brighter.
They are lightweight and a very compact tidy fit.
Each light can flash or sustain either red or white light which is handy when fitting the lights since you don't have to test which one is back and front (there is no back and front, both are the same).
Heavy rain resistant and battery life seems great. Decathlon claim 9 hours in flashing mode. Mine never start dimming even after a few hours.
I'll be picking up another set next time i'm in Decathlon.

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Chris Hayes [386 posts] 1 month ago
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...Still time to cancel this fugly machine and get something beautiful.  You might even be able to go into a shop (after Xmas, of course), speak to someone, negotiate a decent price, develop a relationship and ride something away  1 

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bikezero [62 posts] 1 month ago
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Should also mention that along with not 'going crazy' after a few months like Decathlon's cheaper small battery powered lights...(not responding correctly, or at all, to the on/off/sustain/flash button presses) the button's require more force to press. This means unlike their aforementioned lights, you won't find these flashing in your bag and pocket almost every time you take them out in the day to use later in the night.

 

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longassballs [109 posts] 1 month ago
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So I broke Canyon's inside leg measuring arm at their showroom in Koblenz haha. I pushed it down at the end of the lever instead of closer to the fulcrum shearing the threads from four bolts. It was more embarrassing standing there while they insisted on trying to fix it by just attempting to screw the bolts back in, which was clearly never gonna work. Should add on four months to everyone's waiting orders.

Their test ride really is just a ride around their car park so I wouldn't go out of your way to go there unless you are in the area (I was). It was fun though seeing all the bikes and they were very nice, free coffee/tea while you wait etc but I believe you can get a longer test ride if you go to any cycle shows that Canyon attend. It did settle my mind though that I had made the right choice size wise.

Oh and the showroom lad knew nothing about the mudguards. I'll email Canyon again...

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longassballs [109 posts] 1 month ago
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Yet again Canyon has no idea about their own mudguards and recommend clip-on guards as a temporary solution... for a bike out for a year with mounts. I still can't get over how odd this is.

Oh and I found the little check your order tool on their site. Surprise surprise delivery slipped from Jan to March. Not the worst thing in the world but funny that I had heard nothing from them, until 30 mins after I searched myself, I got an email from them telling me about the delay haha

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brettoau [5 posts] 1 month ago
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Ordered mid August as soon as the 2019 models went on sale for a mid Nov delivery. Delayed 3 times already with the estimated dates just passing with no contact. CC was finally billed so I thought it must be close to shipping, but now estimated date has gone out to mid March... Not keen on the giant revolt, so may just buy a new road bike instead.

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