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Car rolling backwards

Just wanting to vent a bit.

I'm cycling to work this morning on a shared-use path - through Abbots Leigh just outside of Bristol.

I go to cross a side road (from the left, for any cars coming out of that road).  I was coming out from behind the pub you can see here - https://goo.gl/maps/tejryrhLjcp - I was crossing from left to right across this streetview picture (The footpath was turned into a shared-use path and upgraded a couple of years ago, and the council announced at that time that they had no intention of making any sort of changes to priorities on any of the side roads, as that might hold up the traffic...).

Anyhoo: the side-road appears clear, but as I reach the kerb a small hatchback type car races up to the give way line, angled slightly to the left and with the driver *only* looking to her right, clearly intending to turn left out onto the main road.  Having to change my line at the last minute I go up the side of her and around the back - I was about three feet behind her car (maybe two).

I'm nearly out of the way when she decides to finally move forward onto the main road, but she clearly was trying to hold her car on the clutch, as she rolls back before catching the car again on the clutch bite: her car knocks my back wheel and rack with a crunching sound. She brakes, rolls down her window as I shout, and opens by saying that I've run into her, until I point out that she's rolled back and hit me.

She then shouts that I should have given more space to safely pass behind her, and I point out that I was ready to go out onto the road when she approached it at speed and only looking to her right (at no point did she look to her left), and what if I had been a child?

She gets out of her car, starts to move down the side of her car toward the rear then has to leap back in and put the handbrake on as her car starts rolling backward (!!!).

She carefully inspects her rear bumper, tells me off again for passing her too close, how its all my fault and she hopes I've learned my lesson, and then drives off.

(Five minutes later I wish I'd laughed at her when her car started rolling away without her in it, and maybe said that it proved my point...)

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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20 comments

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vonhelmet | 5 years ago
0 likes

It sounds like the driver’s clutch control was at fault for the impact, but I have to question the wisdom of going behind the car like that. Still, without seeing the path as it currently stands it’s hard to say how you’d be best handling it. If the path goes across the top of the junction you’re always going to run into problems with who has priority.

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Spangly Shiny | 5 years ago
1 like

My father, a lifelong cyclist, warned me to treat every driver as a homcidal maniac looking (or not) for an oppotunity to kill. Peds, cyclists, animals, doesn't matter, caveat equitem. (I know it's for horses but the Romans din't have bikes).

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to Spangly Shiny | 5 years ago
2 likes

Spangly Shiny wrote:

My father, a lifelong cyclist, warned me to treat every driver as a homcidal maniac looking (or not) for an oppotunity to kill. Peds, cyclists, animals, doesn't matter, caveat equitem. (I know it's for horses but the Romans din't have bikes).

 

Hmmm, the trouble with that approach is the logical conclusion, if you really adopted it consistently, is to give up cycling.  And possibly walking as well.

 

  Or maybe it's to get a large calibre firearm and take the bastards out first, from a safe distance (I assume, given the your initial assumption, in Florida that would  be acceptable, under their infamous 'stand your ground law'...but I am not a lawyer, so, er, probably best not to take my word for it)

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vonhelmet | 5 years ago
0 likes

That sounds like pretty poor infrastructure if both you and the driver are approaching the junction believing you have priority.

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BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
5 likes

And if that was a disabled person, child or an elderly person slowly crossing they could well have seriously harmed them. As others, have this happen too often, you give them a load of space and still they manage to fuck it up.

People like that who are so casual/don't give a shit should never be allowed on the road, these are the 'minor' or careless actions that end up resulting in a lot more incidents that are very near misses and do in fact cause serious harm or death. That's why it sickens me that the CPS/government reduced a death caused by a motorist to a charge that IF even found guilty has such a low tariff, when the mere fact the action was enough to kill/seriously harm with their weapon of choice it must be dangerous by definition.

Had loads of closer passes today, not the cheek clenching ones but a succession of ones that made it uncomfortable for extended periods, this was only a 30mph through road in a small town, but these people see their actions as acceptable and won't change until forced to. This will be the driver in this case here, she clearly can't see or accept that she is on the wrong and will continue doing the same old shit until something worse occurs.

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madcarew | 5 years ago
3 likes

The driver clearly wasn't driving with due care and attention, but regarding the handbrake comment, many cars now days comewithout a hand brake. They just have a foot operated park brake. No excuse for the young lady to not hold the vehicle with the brake pedal to make sure it doesn't roll back into other road users.

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Hirsute replied to madcarew | 5 years ago
1 like

madcarew wrote:

The driver clearly wasn't driving with due care and attention, but regarding the handbrake comment, many cars now days comewithout a hand brake. They just have a foot operated park brake. No excuse for the young lady to not hold the vehicle with the brake pedal to make sure it doesn't roll back into other road users.

Do you mean electronic hand brake  operated by a button? Otherwise how do you do a hill start ?

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madcarew replied to Hirsute | 5 years ago
0 likes

hirsute wrote:

madcarew wrote:

The driver clearly wasn't driving with due care and attention, but regarding the handbrake comment, many cars now days comewithout a hand brake. They just have a foot operated park brake. No excuse for the young lady to not hold the vehicle with the brake pedal to make sure it doesn't roll back into other road users.

Do you mean electronic hand brake  operated by a button? Otherwise how do you do a hill start ?

electronic button operated (My Mum's svt) or small foot pedal park brake (many GM family cars).... all auto. Is 'on' or 'off'. It's simple to do your hill start. You either come to a stop with your normal brake and hold it on the foot brake while using the accelerator in the normal fashion, or you have it on the park brake, increase the 'tension' on the auto and release the park brake (not really the greatest system)

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Hirsute | 5 years ago
7 likes

I notice a lot of drivers rollback these days, even on a gentle incline.

I think it's because they just use the brake, then swap to the accelerator.

The last one rolled back a couple of feet, and I banged on her side panel, as I thought she was going to hit the car behind (I was tucked away in a hatched area out of harm's way).

And to John Smith, you might want to check the driving test examination about rolling back.

 

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RMurphy195 replied to Hirsute | 5 years ago
6 likes

hirsute wrote:

I notice a lot of drivers rollback these days, even on a gentle incline.

I think it's because they just use the brake, then swap to the accelerator.

The last one rolled back a couple of feet, and I banged on her side panel, as I thought she was going to hit the car behind (I was tucked away in a hatched area out of harm's way).

And to John Smith, you might want to check the driving test examination about rolling back.

 

Its becasu they don't use the handbrake - a damn nuisance if you are behind them whatever your vehicle.

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John Smith | 5 years ago
0 likes

Whilst in an ideal world everyone would have perfect cluch control and never move backwards, the reaity is that the vast majority of people do roll backwards to a greater or lesser extent when setting off on a hill. I'd suggest either giving much more room, waiting until the road is clear or not using that bit of rubbish half arse infrastructure at all and riding in the road. Thats a truly crap bit of shared-use path, not even some paint. I can't realy blame the driver in this case. 

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hawkinspeter replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
14 likes

John Smith wrote:

Whilst in an ideal world everyone would have perfect cluch control and never move backwards, the reaity is that the vast majority of people do roll backwards to a greater or lesser extent when setting off on a hill. I'd suggest either giving much more room, waiting until the road is clear or not using that bit of rubbish half arse infrastructure at all and riding in the road. Thats a truly crap bit of shared-use path, not even some paint. I can't realy blame the driver in this case. 

Really?

You can't blame the driver for not being in control of their vehicle?

If you can't move forwards without rolling backwards then you need to learn to control your vehicle in a safer environment before endangering other road users. It is completely your own responsibility and nothing to do with infrastructure, hills or any other tired, lame excuse.

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John Smith replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

John Smith wrote:

Whilst in an ideal world everyone would have perfect cluch control and never move backwards, the reaity is that the vast majority of people do roll backwards to a greater or lesser extent when setting off on a hill. I'd suggest either giving much more room, waiting until the road is clear or not using that bit of rubbish half arse infrastructure at all and riding in the road. Thats a truly crap bit of shared-use path, not even some paint. I can't realy blame the driver in this case. 

Really?

You can't blame the driver for not being in control of their vehicle?

If you can't move forwards without rolling backwards then you need to learn to control your vehicle in a safer environment before endangering other road users. It is completely your own responsibility and nothing to do with infrastructure, hills or any other tired, lame excuse.

 

Ok, want to be like that? I was trying to politely suggest a bit of consideration. If not, the OP should have treated the edge of the pavement as a give way like and waited for he car to pull off then crossed if we are going to start on what people “should” do. Perhaps everyone on road.cc is a driving god with every bit of their car perfectly working at all times, totally clutch control, total awareness of the whole road, follows all of the rules and never makes any mistakes. But in the real world people do sometimes not use enough revs, have a clutch that is not perfect, or a car with a food operated parking break (which can be a pain on hill starts) or a modem automatic, which do roll back a few inches. Or perhaps they just don’t use the hand break. Ultimate the OP should not have gone until the car had gone. If he had treated it as a give way line and waited to cross until the car had gone, as he should have, there would never have been an issue.

 

Its not about how I may or may not drive, but about just showing a bit of consideration for others. It’s this lack of tolerance on all sides that drives the way cyclists are treated on the roads.

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Mungecrundle replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
2 likes
John Smith wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

John Smith wrote:

Whilst in an ideal world everyone would have perfect cluch control and never move backwards, the reaity is that the vast majority of people do roll backwards to a greater or lesser extent when setting off on a hill. I'd suggest either giving much more room, waiting until the road is clear or not using that bit of rubbish half arse infrastructure at all and riding in the road. Thats a truly crap bit of shared-use path, not even some paint. I can't realy blame the driver in this case. 

Really?

You can't blame the driver for not being in control of their vehicle?

If you can't move forwards without rolling backwards then you need to learn to control your vehicle in a safer environment before endangering other road users. It is completely your own responsibility and nothing to do with infrastructure, hills or any other tired, lame excuse.

 

Ok, want to be like that? I was trying to politely suggest a bit of consideration. If not, the OP should have treated the edge of the pavement as a give way like and waited for he car to pull off then crossed if we are going to start on what people “should” do. Perhaps everyone on road.cc is a driving god with every bit of their car perfectly working at all times, totally clutch control, total awareness of the whole road, follows all of the rules and never makes any mistakes. But in the real world people do sometimes not use enough revs, have a clutch that is not perfect, or a car with a food operated parking break (which can be a pain on hill starts) or a modem automatic, which do roll back a few inches. Or perhaps they just don’t use the hand break. Ultimate the OP should not have gone until the car had gone. If he had treated it as a give way line and waited to cross until the car had gone, as he should have, there would never have been an issue.

 

Its not about how I may or may not drive, but about just showing a bit of consideration for others. It’s this lack of tolerance on all sides that drives the way cyclists are treated on the roads.

It is not just the lack of basic vehicle control but the even more basic lack of awareness of what was going on around her. The driver had the option of simply holding the car on the brake if she was unsure of her ability to perform a hill start without rolling backwards. The final straw is the lack of being able to accept that she was at fault and simply apologise for the error.

As to the OP or anyone on the wrong end of poor driving or even just reading about it on an internet forum: It is possible to be 100% blameless and still learn something from the experience so that you are better able to avoid a similar situation again.

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hawkinspeter replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
5 likes
John Smith wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

John Smith wrote:

Whilst in an ideal world everyone would have perfect cluch control and never move backwards, the reaity is that the vast majority of people do roll backwards to a greater or lesser extent when setting off on a hill. I'd suggest either giving much more room, waiting until the road is clear or not using that bit of rubbish half arse infrastructure at all and riding in the road. Thats a truly crap bit of shared-use path, not even some paint. I can't realy blame the driver in this case. 

Really?

You can't blame the driver for not being in control of their vehicle?

If you can't move forwards without rolling backwards then you need to learn to control your vehicle in a safer environment before endangering other road users. It is completely your own responsibility and nothing to do with infrastructure, hills or any other tired, lame excuse.

 

Ok, want to be like that? I was trying to politely suggest a bit of consideration. If not, the OP should have treated the edge of the pavement as a give way like and waited for he car to pull off then crossed if we are going to start on what people “should” do. Perhaps everyone on road.cc is a driving god with every bit of their car perfectly working at all times, totally clutch control, total awareness of the whole road, follows all of the rules and never makes any mistakes. But in the real world people do sometimes not use enough revs, have a clutch that is not perfect, or a car with a food operated parking break (which can be a pain on hill starts) or a modem automatic, which do roll back a few inches. Or perhaps they just don’t use the hand break. Ultimate the OP should not have gone until the car had gone. If he had treated it as a give way line and waited to cross until the car had gone, as he should have, there would never have been an issue.

 

Its not about how I may or may not drive, but about just showing a bit of consideration for others. It’s this lack of tolerance on all sides that drives the way cyclists are treated on the roads.

In my view it's not about having perfect clutch control, but being safe. If you can't control a car well enough to prevent it rolling backwards whilst performing a standard, common manoeuvre, then you are not safe enough to be on the roads.

Would you be able to pass a driving test if you were unable to pull away without rolling backwards?

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Hirsute replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

In my view it's not about having perfect clutch control, but being safe. If you can't control a car well enough to prevent it rolling backwards whilst performing a standard, common manoeuvre, then you are not safe enough to be on the roads. Would you be able to pass a driving test if you were unable to pull away without rolling backwards?

I'd be mortified if I rolled backwards; just shows poor control

He's one view in the test I found

https://www.diaryofanadi.co.uk/?p=3069

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brooksby replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
3 likes

John Smith wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

John Smith wrote:

Whilst in an ideal world everyone would have perfect cluch control and never move backwards, the reaity is that the vast majority of people do roll backwards to a greater or lesser extent when setting off on a hill. I'd suggest either giving much more room, waiting until the road is clear or not using that bit of rubbish half arse infrastructure at all and riding in the road. Thats a truly crap bit of shared-use path, not even some paint. I can't realy blame the driver in this case. 

Really?

You can't blame the driver for not being in control of their vehicle?

If you can't move forwards without rolling backwards then you need to learn to control your vehicle in a safer environment before endangering other road users. It is completely your own responsibility and nothing to do with infrastructure, hills or any other tired, lame excuse.

 

Ok, want to be like that? I was trying to politely suggest a bit of consideration. If not, the OP should have treated the edge of the pavement as a give way like and waited for he car to pull off then crossed if we are going to start on what people “should” do. Perhaps everyone on road.cc is a driving god with every bit of their car perfectly working at all times, totally clutch control, total awareness of the whole road, follows all of the rules and never makes any mistakes. But in the real world people do sometimes not use enough revs, have a clutch that is not perfect, or a car with a food operated parking break (which can be a pain on hill starts) or a modem automatic, which do roll back a few inches. Or perhaps they just don’t use the hand break. Ultimate the OP should not have gone until the car had gone. If he had treated it as a give way line and waited to cross until the car had gone, as he should have, there would never have been an issue.

 

Its not about how I may or may not drive, but about just showing a bit of consideration for others. It’s this lack of tolerance on all sides that drives the way cyclists are treated on the roads.

If I'd believed I had priority I'd have just gone straight out. I didn't. I was *about* to go out, believing the road was clear, when this woman approached the junction at speed never looking in my direction, only ever looking in the direction that she expected traffic to be coming from on the main road. I then went around behind her, at which point she rolled back and collided with me (which I suspect was the first moment she knew I existed). No damage done to me or my ride, luckily.

My complaint wasn't about priorities, it was about not looking and about not controlling your motor vehicle, and about her apparently failing to see that she'd done anything wrong. It was about what if I'd been a child or an OAP or a woman with pushchair.

(My fault was in expecting someone to look both ways at a junction, expecting them to control their car properly, and in approaching that junction myself not anticipating such a driver to be out that early  3 )

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Hirsute replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
3 likes

John Smith wrote:

or a modem automatic, which do roll back a few inches.

Automatics creep forward when in drive, so you'd have to be pretty useless to roll back.

I have to use the handbrake on mine even on small hills to stop moving forward.

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Griff500 replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
3 likes

John Smith wrote:

But in the real world people do sometimes not use enough revs, have a clutch that is not perfect, or a car with a food operated parking break (which can be a pain on hill starts) or a modem automatic, which do roll back a few inches.

Yeah, sometimes you need to know when to give up on an argument.

Foot operated parking brakes are common on American cars, but only ever with an auto box, and automatics do not roll backwards unless there is a fault, or the car is in neutral. No car which behaved as you suggest would pass its construction and use cert.

(aside from which, the OP describes the driver holding the car on the clutch - a practice which I loath as all it does is shorten clutch life just for the sake of laziness - so auto boxes don't even enter the debate)

 

Avatar
Morgoth985 | 5 years ago
9 likes

When you catch someone out in that sort of situation they'll swear that black is white rather than admit their own failings.  At least when you get an over the top defensive reaction I suspect they know deep down they're wrong, even though they'll never admit it.

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