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Cycle accident and whether to go to court or not

 

hello - looking for some advice/thoughts 

Back in July I was involved in a cycle accident. Basically I was cycling on the main road and a car driver pulled out in front of me. Didn't have time to stop and ended up having to move towards the curb with the car taking up most of the road and me effectively being side swiped and knocked off my bike.  Damage to bike and myself. Fortunately I have a cycliq camera so whole accident is on film. Incident reported to the police.

So move on a few months and the car drivers insurance company admit liability. Police then call and say they have reviewed the footage and think there are other factors at play - a van in front of me braked further down the road and the car that pulled out moved to the kerb to try and squeeze past the van hence forcing me off the road. The fact that if the car driver had looked and not pulled out no accident would have occured seems not to count much for the police. 

However, they have given me a choice of either sending the car driver a letter which then stays on their file or taking the matter to court. In my mind they pushed the letter alot and seemed unkeen to   about going to court. Personally I think court acts as more of a deterrent than some letter but would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.

And whilst it shouldnt make any difference but no doubt will in court the car driver was a lady in her late 60's/early 70's.

I'll add that i'm a seasoned cycle commuter so use to my fair share of close calls but just think a letter seems abit of a cop out.

Appreciate the input

 

 

  

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20 comments

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ceebee247 | 5 years ago
2 likes

 

 

Just an update guys on  the above incident.

 

Decided to push for prosecution , and off it went to the  local magistrates court. The driver was being prosecuted for driving without reasonable consideration. At court the driver claimed that the accident occurred due to another vechile stopping in front of her when she pulled out. However , after the magistrate reviewed the video evidence he concluded she was too blame for the accident and had been driving with reasonable consideration.

She was fined 500 pounds, plus 150 pounds costs and 5 penalty points.

 

In my eyes this is a result but I must admit I was suprised by the severity of the fine. Anyhow goes to show that sometimes it is worth pushing and it helps alot if you have video evidence.

many thanks for all your input/replies

 

 

 

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bobbinogs | 5 years ago
2 likes

I was taken out on a roundabout last year, t-boned at speed by a driver that said she "saw me but didn't think she'd hit me". Wasn't sure what to make of that...but she was very apologetic right from the start (when I came to) and immediately admitted liability. The police were great (even took me to hospital when the ambulance failed to turn up). I was given the choice of having her prosecuted (DWDCAA) or sent on a driver awareness course. I think it was good that I had input into things and chose the latter as I figured it would make a bigger difference. It is a shame the OP didn't get the same contrition or choice.

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AKH | 5 years ago
0 likes

If you know the offence the driver is being charged with you can find guidelines here on the range of penalties:

 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/

 

It's not always possible to follow these documents easily, as some separate guidance also applies which isn’t always linked, but if should help prepare you in case you feel disappointed with the outcome.

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bikezero | 5 years ago
2 likes

A simple sincere apology might have gone a long way, effectively an admission of her error and a desire to be a more careful driver in the future, but she hasn't given you that. Too bad.
I think you are totally right to be miffed at the fact she didn't help after the accident nor offer any apology when swapping insurance details all those weeks later.
That is really quite shocking, but then some people are incredibly rude.

If it goes to court I would state those very reasons as ultimately being part of your decision to bring the case to court.
That such behaviour left you feeling disturbed, that the driver showed no remorse and appeared to have not learnt anything from the mistake.

I think it's very noble that your sole intent here is to see her driving is improved.
And if you get an new Carbon bicycle out of it then so be it ! (sorry couldn't resist the joke)

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ceebee247 | 5 years ago
4 likes

Thanks guys

All your input has been very helpful. I was thinking court but then also thinking that prehaps i was making too big a deal of it.

To be honest I'd quite happily settle for her to have 3 points on her license and for her to do an older driver assessment but thats not an option I was given or one the police were able to do.

I dont mind going to court , time/aggro not really a factor for me. Just like to see an actual result that would  improve her driving .

One thing to note is that  at no point did the lady ever help or apologise, even minutes after the accident when i'm lying in the road , nor when we were swapping details nor weeks later when she finally advised her insurance details. So a part of me is abit miffed at that  as well.

 

Court it is

 

Appreciate your feedback and let u know how it goes

 

 

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cougie | 5 years ago
2 likes

I don't get how the actions of the van excuse someone pulling out into your path.

I'd go to court. It's on camera. She pulled out.  Her fault entirely. 

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nniff | 5 years ago
4 likes

Do it.

The preliminary hearing for the hit and run in which I was comprehensively taken out is due on 28th December - Hah! Merry Xmas! 

He's charged with driving without due care and attention, failing to stop, failing to notify the police of an accident and failing to nominate the driver.  I don't have to attend the preliminary hearing, but I've got the day off anyway.  It is possible that a contingent from the club will fill out the public gallery before adjourning to a convenient hostelry  1

 

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Grahamd | 5 years ago
7 likes

If the lady is too old for court then she is too old to drive. 

 

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bikezero | 5 years ago
0 likes

I agree with what you are saying about the fact that all forms of dangerous driving should be punished, but I still think there can be a distinction between dangerous driving and a safe good driver making a small mistake.
Choosing to pull out onto a road without bothering to look is not a minor mistake. It's dangerous driving.
Doing risky overtakes on a busy road is not a minor mistake. It's choosing to drive in a dangerous manner.
Of course minor mistakes have in some cases resulted in atrociously bad accidents.
Even a deer running across a motorway causing a driver to swerve has resulted in atrociously bad accidents and it's nobody's fault (but the animal).
Sometimes accidents occur through an unfortunate set of circumstances without anybody you can place blame on and also quite often they occur because of minor errors.

Re-reading the OP, it sounds like a driver did pull out without looking which is dangerous driving. I think I was then a little confused by the follow up comment that he says Police gave him as to why the car moved towards the curb. I'm not sure I've yet understood the context of this accident.

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bikezero | 5 years ago
0 likes

Essentially for me it's most about the guilty person acknowledging fault and showing willingness to learn from the experience. Then that's a safer driver and one who may well remember the goodwill of the victim who didn't go to sue them even though they may have had a leg to stand on in doing so.
If conversely they are a cocky arrogant person, then a police warning letter is no good and I would definitely take them to court if I was advised it were feesible for me to do so.
Again, there are cases of very bad or atrocious driving where charges are necessary irregardless of how genuinely sorry/willing to learn from the experience a person may be.
In that instance, I agree age should certainly have no relevance and court is where that person should go.
I was just pointing out that for an elderly person court may be particularly difficult and that in cases where the driver error was more on the minor-medium side, I might be bearing that factor even a little more strongly in mind.

One wants the best outcome of an accident for all concerned in all ways.
I'm certainly a believer in "tough love" where necessary. If you rate the drivers error as majorly serious (as it's probably hard not to given the serious injury you say you endured) then maybe court is the way to go.

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FluffyKittenofT... | 5 years ago
2 likes

The police don't seem very keen on pursuing any case about anything these days so I don't think their pushing the 'letter' option is unusual or specific to cyclists.

 

I'm inclined to accept their excuse of budget cuts and 'austerity', but who knows? (it comes down to choosing who's telling the truth between Tories and the police, and as the 'plebgate' affair demonstrated, that can be a tricky one...).

 

I don't see the age of the driver is relevant - if they are too enfeebled by age to be held responsible for their actions, then they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

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bikezero | 5 years ago
0 likes

Needless to say most people who knock over people, or cyclists or have vehicle crashes of any kind are not intentionally doing illegal things.
With most crashes somebody is at fault and it should be determined how bad their fault was. Obviously in some cases their driving has been so bad that they can and should be charged with dangerous driving/dangerous driving causing injury, or even manslaughter in the event of somebody being killed. As we all know, there are many drivers who should not be on the road.
Though in other cases, the error can be more minor (even if the resulting accident was serious) and sometimes with such cases, a formal police warning is perfectly sufficient in my opinion.

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BehindTheBikesheds replied to bikezero | 5 years ago
0 likes

bikezero wrote:

Needless to say most people who knock over people, or cyclists or have vehicle crashes of any kind are not intentionally doing illegal things. With most crashes somebody is at fault and it should be determined how bad their fault was. Obviously in some cases their driving has been so bad that they can and should be charged with dangerous driving/dangerous driving causing injury, or even manslaughter in the event of somebody being killed. As we all know, there are many drivers who should not be on the road. Though in other cases, the error can be more minor (even if the resulting accident was serious) and sometimes with such cases, a formal police warning is perfectly sufficient in my opinion.

Disagree, one chooses to drive in x manner or y manner, do I choose to drive into this person yes or no, do I choose to pull out without bothering to look, yes or no, do I bother take my driving standard seriously knowing how when I read in the news or hear on the radio yet another human being been killed by a vehicle being operated by motorist so know the consequences of innatentive, reckless actions, yes or no?

You may not have meant to something but you make a conscious decision to act in x way and that has a massive dterimental affect on another then you should expect to get slammed. Except in the UK and Australia where the justice systems are piss weak and allow killers and those that harm others with life changing injuries get off with a slapped wrist and a wider public give them plenty of sympathy, especially if they are old or female 'church going cancer specialists'

Calling some errors 'minor' when the consequences are serious injury or death, AKA careless, is an insult and a disgrace.

The incident here is NOT minor, we know that the outcome of such behaviour can and does have massive implications to innocent people including costing them their lives.

people take motoring and operation of a motorvehicle lightly because the training and free use of vehicles in a manner that harms individuals/society ais allowed to be that way by government, police, CPS, judges and joe public.

This should be a full prosecution for dangerous driving, by it's very nature and known outcoime it's dangerous. it should warrant a fine, a short driving ban plus compulsary retest. Because ignoring this matter and the many other millions of offences has worked really well for road safety so far!

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imajez | 5 years ago
9 likes

Quote:

"Court is a very unpleasant experience for everyone concerned, not least an elderly person."

Can't wait till I'm a pensioner and be allowed to get away with murder.

If said eledery person is easily upset by court maybe she should not do illegal things then. It's a lot more upsetting to be killed by such a driver.

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bikezero | 5 years ago
1 like

Court is a very unpleasant experience for everyone concerned, not least an elderly person. Maybe let compassion shine? Has she been apologetic to you?
I would've thought if you got an insurance payout? (and she knows that) and then she receives a warning letter from police that they tell her is being kept on file, then that is will make her think very hard about her bad driving that day when she almost killed
somebody.

I suppose you have to take the decision yourself. Only you know exactly how bad her driving was (by your account it was certainly a very serious accident in any case) and whether it's the right thing to do to summon her to court.

I like to think if it were me and I considered her driving (which resulted in my serious accident) atrociously bad, I would get in touch with the lady and see if she is apologetic, ask her if she thinks she has learnt from this incident etc.
Then, if I could satisfy myself that the answer was yes, I'd tell her that I am not taking it to court even though Police said it was an option. That she should expect a Police warning letter.

I would tell the Police of my decision, that I had spoken to the lady and that it was very important to me that they sent the warning letter.

I just don't see that putting her through the process of court and potentially a big £££ bill is likely to have any more a positive effect than the former option, providing she is not cocky or ignorant (some people deserve to be dragged through the coal).

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Mungecrundle | 5 years ago
0 likes

Seems a bit weird that you are being asked, surely that is the job of the Police and CPS to decide if there is a case or public interest to prosecute.

However....How do you feel about the incident? Do you think she made an error of judgement and has learned the lesson or do you think there was malice involved? Do you think that the incompetence displayed represents an ongoing risk to others? Do you want revenge or maybe just an apology, a proper apology from the driver? Presumably compensation is settled, and to be selfish, what is in it for you to get dragged into a legal process that really cares very little about you and will take your time and energies?

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BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
4 likes

Court, and if police fail to do as they should, make an official complaint. Typical of police absolving themselves and indeed the criminal, this happens far too often and for the further detriment not just of cyclists but pedestrians and other motorists.

And they still can't grasp they are part of the problem and by inaction, not following the law they create a worse situation for themselves and for everyone else!

Good luck!

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gonzothegreat | 5 years ago
1 like

You need to go to court.

The Police advising the driver & saying it will be held on his file is a bit poetic. If its a due care offence then it has a 6 month time limit anyway, so if the driver committed another offence after 6 months then the Police could not bring that evidence forward.

I suspect what they mean is they will give him words of advice.

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davel | 5 years ago
4 likes

I think from the tone of your post you seem to have an idea what your 'right thing' is. Do it.

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alansmurphy | 5 years ago
3 likes

The court may seem like a huge waste of time and resources with very little outcome. However, if it makes the driver stop and think for a second then it may well save a life. Also, the opposite action to that suggested by a pen pusher not even deemed fit enough to be proper plod is usually the correct one!

 

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