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I've not seen any mention of this on road.cc:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/driver-who-shot-crash-video-on-his-ph...

Quite aside from the fact that the thick, self-centred c-word was filming the scene of a crash, where people could be dead or very seriously injured, there's also the fact that the selfish cumstain wasn't prepared to cough up and accept a fine and points.   His actions haven't just resulted in his own 'absolution', but I'm informed by the Met that they now won't even bother prosecuting someone unless he or she is actually seen typing on the keyboard, or having a conversation by holding the phone up to his or her ear.

Well done, Ramsey fucking Barreto.  You fucking world-class weapon. 

11 comments

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ktache [1994 posts] 1 month ago
1 like

I think it popped up in the live blog and on a forum thread.

I'm sure it's one of the first things that this utter shambles of a government sorts out, that and the upcoming review into road safety.

You know, after they sort out the easiest deal in the world. 

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srchar [1540 posts] 1 month ago
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The thing is, this sort of stuff, which I see all the time, isn't something that government can sort out. Society needs to sort it out. I know, vain hope and all that - but what I mean is, something like drink driving has been illegal for God knows how long. Yet the incidence of drink driving only started to fall when it became not only illegal but also unacceptable to society. That's because you're very unlikely to get caught drink driving, so enforcement needs to be via the act being considered so shameful that most people wouldn't dare do it.

There are two things going on in the linked case - mobile phone use at the wheel and shooting video of the scene of a crash. I see the latter all the time and always wonder - when are they actually going to watch that back? Who are they going to share it with? (mind you, I think that about a lot of the crap that people insist on taking photos of or filming). Taking ghoulish videos isn't widely socially unacceptable right now. Neither is using your phone in the car. There needs to be a level of shame attached to these actions that simply isn't there right now, again because you're vanishingly unlikely to get caught. The government can't engender shame in people. Only society can.

I don't have the answer - but I don't think that more legislation will fix it (although this is an interesting example of law failing to keep up with technology - phones didn't have cameras when the legislation was written, hence the loophole).

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hawkinspeter [3939 posts] 1 month ago
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@srchar - I think it'll take both government/legislation and society to put an effort into it. Legislation is easy - just make it illegal to be holding and/or operating digital devices whilst controlling a motorised vehicle (i.e. if the engine is on and /or the vehicle is in traffic).

Next, there has to be a reasonable expectation that a motorist will at some point be caught if they habitually use a phone whilst driving - that requires a combination of suitable traffic cameras and some plain-clothes coppers (possibly on bikes) performing random checks.

As far as changing the public attitude, I think a few shock campaigns and public information ads might help, but I think there's also a general issue with drivers feeling entitled to drive whereas they are merely licensed to use the road - it's not a right. Harsher penalties and stricter enforcement of traffic laws would help - maybe that government review into road safety is due.

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Bobbinogs [338 posts] 1 month ago
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The main point about this incident is that the police charged the bloke with the wrong crime.  If he had been charged for 'driving without due care' then it would have been an open and shut case.  Unfortunately, they charged him with using a mobile phone (as in a communication device) and so he was able to challenge it.  So, who is to blame here?  The POS doing the filming?  What about the legal team representing him?  Perhaps the police /CPS for the wrong charge?

 

Personally, I think it shows a number of failings...but there are worse things in life, sadly.

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David9694 [128 posts] 1 month ago
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I hadn’t seen this story, so thanks. 

I thought the police guidance on this was clear - drivers, you shouldn’t be holding anything in your hands that isn’t part of the car (ideally the steering wheel 99% of the time and as necessary the, gear stick wiper switch, etc, preferably not the integrated sat nav)  and looking at the road.  You’re a distracted driver if you’ve got a sausage roll in your hand, aren’t you? 

A while ago,  someone driving a horse box stopped and asked me directions.  She had a phone in one hand that she was using to navigate - I do not repent of the first thing that I said which was “don’t use a ‘phone at the wheel” - for anything.  

Could it be that the procedure the Police used In this instance was the wrong one?  

Wrong message sent here - surely public policy and the intention of Parliament is not to permit this. 

This takes the tradition of rubber-necking to a new level!

 

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Envee NV [9 posts] 4 weeks ago
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On any given day i see between 3 to 5 motorists on their phones. Motorists know they can most likely get away with using their phones and know that the chances of getting caught are near to zero. There is no enforcement at all of this law. There are next to no coppers to be seen where i live.

What gets me though are the looks i get when i do manage to inform some of them.

Here is what i would like to see. Penalties so stiff that on the second time you get caught on your phone your license is revoked for 5 years and your car gets scrapped. That will teach them. Will we see it? Heck no. More cyclists need to die first.

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vonhelmet [1410 posts] 4 weeks ago
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The law on this is pretty silly. As per the case, using a phone is only illegal if you're using it into communicate in some way. That means that if you're browsing music on your phone it's legal, but if you're browsing music on spotify it's not, never mind that both entail you looking at your phone screen. So his recording a video was fine, but if he'd gone on to upload it to Facebook while driving, that would have been illegal.

The law specifically lists sending a fax from a phone as being an offence, ffs.

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Sriracha [178 posts] 4 weeks ago
3 likes

The whole "handheld" thing is a conceit anyway. So far as phone calls are concerned, the distraction is negotiating a conversation with someone not in the car. It's bad enough chatting with passengers, but at least they are aware of the context of the demands of the road. External parties make no such accommodation and the distraction can be intense.
This is obvious from experience, and also from research:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161213093104.htm

Obviously holding the device can't help, but it is at best half the problem.

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StraelGuy [1730 posts] 4 weeks ago
2 likes
Sriracha wrote:

Obviously holding the device can't help, but it is at best half the problem.

 

Exactly, it's the distraction. If you take a call, hands free or not, saying a member of your family's been involved in an accident you're not going to be able to concentrate on your driving. You need to stay disconnected and concentrating on the job in hand.

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David9694 [128 posts] 3 weeks ago
1 like
Sriracha wrote:

. It's bad enough chatting with passengers, but at least they are aware of the context of the demands of the road. External parties make no such accommodation and the distraction can be intense. This is obvious from experience, and also from research: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161213093104.htm Obviously holding the device can't help, but it is at best half the problem.

 

You haven’t met my mother in law have you?

But seriously I used to find it quite worrying that exec directors with a 50 minute drive to another site would book phone calls, probably quite difficult ones at times for this slot.  I’d seriously consider having drivers. 

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Boatsie [389 posts] 3 weeks ago
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Bobbinogs wrote:

The main point about this incident is that the police charged the bloke with the wrong crime.  If he had been charged for 'driving without due care' then it would have been an open and shut case.  Unfortunately, they charged him with using a mobile phone (as in a communication device) and so he was able to challenge it.  So, who is to blame here?  The POS doing the filming?  What about the legal team representing him?  Perhaps the police /CPS for the wrong charge?

 

Personally, I think it shows a number of failings...but there are worse things in life, sadly.

I agree with you. Driving without due care. Not paying attention to the road.
Sitting at traffic lights having heard a beep a longtime ago to read a message while stationary and knowing the dude infront won't be moving until 30 or more seconds have past brings penalties down here and yet the car's secure and non disruptive to others.. Yet a lot of time people would rush to start hence I also agree with the penalty.
The phone was recording hence it was being used, although the video would have been posted after recording, phone use is merely a retarded action of communication. Dude was lucky as from my eyes..
Ever noticed the rubber necks? An accident occurs then another follows because someone is gawking at the accident and drives into another or veers off course. I only read the free non subscription bits but seems like another rubber neck, hence police concern IMO..