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Looking at new carbon disc brake bikes and fancy a Giant TCR or Defy but they all come with tubeless tyres which I would want to swap for standard clincher tyres and tubes..."Tubeless just isn't for me!" Does anyone know if I can just remove the gavia tyres and the sticky mess and fit my favoured Vittoria's and tubes on the wheels?

12 comments

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CyclingInBeastMode [145 posts] 3 weeks ago
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Why don't you ask the manufacturer of the wheels directly, this would be simpler and get you a definitive answer?

I've no idea what the wheels are but I've been buying up stock of clincher rims and indeed tyres to avoid having to use the re-enforced tubeless garbage that is heavier and less supple than standard tyres. A review on road CC recently tells how veloflex have had to modify their clinchers because of mickey poor carbon clinchers that rub the sidwalls badly and damage them, so they've beefed up and are now stopping the run of normal tyres in the rnage just to suit this one group of people, all at the expense of performance and weight - which could be added to tread thickness instead of sidewalls!

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fukawitribe [2936 posts] 3 weeks ago
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Oh do give it a rest... at least until you've actually tried them. Seems like Veloflex are still producing the regular open tubulars without the SPS reinforcement anyway, but I understand that's not the point.

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fukawitribe [2936 posts] 3 weeks ago
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OP. Yeah you can just remove the tyres and flog them - they turn up regularly on eBay - then put regular clinchers on.

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CyclingInBeastMode [145 posts] 3 weeks ago
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fukawitribe wrote:

Oh do give it a rest... at least until you've actually tried them. Seems like Veloflex are still producing the regular open tubulars without the SPS reinforcement anyway, but I understand that's not the point.

Give what a rest, is that addressed to me?

It is a fact that tubeless specific tyres are heavier and are more re-enforced at the sidewalls, also manufacturers are reducing their lines of non tubeless tyres, or are you going to say that's false?

it even states on the release/review that Veloflex are discontinuing the range in the non re-enforced version, it's in black and white, suggest you read it!

Please explain your faux outrage?

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fukawitribe [2936 posts] 3 weeks ago
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Yeah, at you. Bad afternoon and not in the mode for more bollocks. Yeah it will increase the rolling resistance to some degree, exactly what you don't know but you already know they're garbage. Not tried them, not apparently considered actually where the change *is*, not waiting for anyone to actually test them, nothing.  FFS, another mouth attached to an opinion and no experience to base it on. Brilliant. Just what the world needs more of.

As for the tyres - Veloflex are currently producing the non-SPS tyres and still selling them on the their site. Go look. Yeah they will "will gradually substitute the traditional version" in Veloflexs own words, but not now. They have a lot of track and TT people using the old open tubs, they'll not disappear soon. When they do, if they finally get rid of all the open tubs, then we'll have the SPS versions  - the thing you hate, but have no idea about, but - given what Veloflex say about where and how the reinforcement is made - will make fuck all difference i'd bet given the details released so far and where the changes have been made. Do I know ? No, which is why i'll reserve judgement until they're put their paces on the road and in the lab. YMMV pretty fucking clearly.

 

Edit. Oh yeah, sorry forgot. They're adding this to all the open tubs, because they're worried about shit rims damaging the tyres. Not a tubeless thing.

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Nick T [1345 posts] 3 weeks ago
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FWIW I've tried tubeless and found it to be shit, if that helps

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CXR94Di2 [2762 posts] 3 weeks ago
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Yes you can swap to innertubes. Why though?

Tubeless is a great system, eliminating virtually all pin prick, glass shard, flint punctures. There is also the elimination of snake bite puncture. Using a good tubeless tyre and sealant with the correct fluid amount will greatly enhance the reliability

I use only Schwalbe tyres and Orange endurance sealant. I also use two layers or stans tape with 25 mm tyres,,so I can use a higher pressure for smooth road surfaces.

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CyclingInBeastMode [145 posts] 3 weeks ago
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fukawitribe wrote:

Yeah, at you. Bad afternoon and not in the mode for more bollocks. Yeah it will increase the rolling resistance to some degree, exactly what you don't know but you already know they're garbage. Not tried them, not apparently considered actually where the change *is*, not waiting for anyone to actually test them, nothing.  FFS, another mouth attached to an opinion and no experience to base it on. Brilliant. Just what the world needs more of.

As for the tyres - Veloflex are currently producing the non-SPS tyres and still selling them on the their site. Go look. Yeah they will "will gradually substitute the traditional version" in Veloflexs own words, but not now. They have a lot of track and TT people using the old open tubs, they'll not disappear soon. When they do, if they finally get rid of all the open tubs, then we'll have the SPS versions  - the thing you hate, but have no idea about, but - given what Veloflex say about where and how the reinforcement is made - will make fuck all difference i'd bet given the details released so far and where the changes have been made. Do I know ? No, which is why i'll reserve judgement until they're put their paces on the road and in the lab. YMMV pretty fucking clearly.

 

Edit. Oh yeah, sorry forgot. They're adding this to all the open tubs, because they're worried about shit rims damaging the tyres. Not a tubeless thing.

you've got a real potty mouth roid rage going on there buddy bud bud, you might want to lay off for a while and go for a bike ride, it'll calm your nerves.

1. How many miles do you have riding tubeless tyres on standard clinchers with tubes in them, what widths (for me 25s and 32s) As you're giving it the daddy big bollocks I expect you'll have thousands of miles of experience of the two types of set up with similar tyres right. A best guesstimate is fine, plus name the tyres and even tubes because that's actually quite important to keep constants when comparing and exchanging/sharing information.

2. Are tubeless tyres heavier/more re-enforced at the sidewalls than non tubeless tyres, yes or no?

3. Does a tubeless tyres' re-enforced sidewalls give a more complient ride with tubes compared to the equivalent non tubeless tyre with a tube, yes or no? You understand the role that sidewalls play in tyres and how that effects matters directly on the road right?

4. Could the added weight to re-enforce the tyre be added in a more useful/constructive manner, say to add to the tread thickness, which would give better longevity/puncture protection, yes or no?

5. Hate is such a strong word, did I use the word hate or was it in fact you, yes or no, answer truthfully?

I really don't think the internet is ready for you yet, making up stuff that people have said when they haven't, a narrow minded singular view with no real world experience/no experience of what someone else has in fact but prepared to use foul language to tell someone they are completely wrong yet can't produce any facts/evidence regarding that ... oh hang on, the internet is perfect for you.laugh

Ride what you like but tubeless specific tyres with tubes are garbage compared to like for like non tubeless tyres, the difference is noticeable to this user, the ride is harsher, slower and the tyres are for the most part more expensive too. 

 

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srchar [1627 posts] 3 weeks ago
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If you are interested in the ride, tubs are still where it's at. I've never run tubeless, but it sounds like a similar, or greater, faff level as gluing a tub, which also won't pinch flat. You can even add sealant if you like (I don't) and I can change a tub more quickly than I can change a tube.

OP, when you get to the stage of knowing exactly what you want from your bike, it's time to start building one up from components.

By the way, because rim-braked tubular wheelsets are badly out of fashion, there are bargains aplenty to be had on your favourite internet auction site.

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Argus Tuft [95 posts] 3 weeks ago
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 You're overthinking it-If the stock tyres are  stiff,drop the pressure a little.You can fit old school tyres on tubeless rims,but I've found it a tight fit.

And stop reading internet articles.

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fukawitribe [2936 posts] 3 weeks ago
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@CyclingInBeastMode

Summary - more stuff inline below if you want

  • This is not about tubeless for Veloflex
  • I said you made a judgement on the Veloflex SPS tyres without any experience, i'll stand by that judgement until shown otherwise. 
  • I said 'hate', not you, that's on me.
CyclingInBeastMode wrote:
fukawitribe wrote:

Yeah, at you. Bad afternoon and not in the mode for more bollocks. Yeah it will increase the rolling resistance to some degree, exactly what you don't know but you already know they're garbage. Not tried them, not apparently considered actually where the change *is*, not waiting for anyone to actually test them, nothing.  FFS, another mouth attached to an opinion and no experience to base it on. Brilliant. Just what the world needs more of.

As for the tyres - Veloflex are currently producing the non-SPS tyres and still selling them on the their site. Go look. Yeah they will "will gradually substitute the traditional version" in Veloflexs own words, but not now. They have a lot of track and TT people using the old open tubs, they'll not disappear soon. When they do, if they finally get rid of all the open tubs, then we'll have the SPS versions  - the thing you hate, but have no idea about, but - given what Veloflex say about where and how the reinforcement is made - will make fuck all difference i'd bet given the details released so far and where the changes have been made. Do I know ? No, which is why i'll reserve judgement until they're put their paces on the road and in the lab. YMMV pretty fucking clearly.

 

Edit. Oh yeah, sorry forgot. They're adding this to all the open tubs, because they're worried about shit rims damaging the tyres. Not a tubeless thing.

you've got a real potty mouth roid rage going on there buddy bud bud, you might want to lay off for a while and go for a bike ride, it'll calm your nerves.

Yeah, like I said, bad day - patience with some things at a low point.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

. How many miles do you have riding tubeless tyres on standard clinchers with tubes in them, what widths (for me 25s and 32s) As you're giving it the daddy big bollocks I expect you'll have thousands of miles of experience of the two types of set up with similar tyres right. A best guesstimate is fine, plus name the tyres and even tubes because that's actually quite important to keep constants when comparing and exchanging/sharing information.

I have zero miles riding tubeless tyres on standard clinchers with tubes in them. Why on earth would I do that ? I do have a reasonably decent experience of tubeless tyres being used as intended, e.g. on the road, a few thousand km on 23mm Hutchinson Fusion 3s, quite a lot of thousand km on Specialized S-Works Turbo 2Bliss 28mm (going through a second set now) and about a 1000km or so on some new 25mm Mavic Yksion Pro UST (aka Hutchison Fusion 5 Storm 11). 

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

2. Are tubeless tyres heavier/more re-enforced at the sidewalls than non tubeless tyres, yes or no?

In general, yup.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

3. Does a tubeless tyres' re-enforced sidewalls give a more complient ride with tubes compared to the equivalent non tubeless tyre with a tube, yes or no?

Nope.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

ou understand the role that sidewalls play in tyres and how that effects matters directly on the road right?

Yes, I do, and the effect of inner tubes (butyl, latex or plastic) on compliance, Crr and ride. Ditto roughly where on the tyre the majority of the hysteresis losses occur. I also know what Veloflex say is the reason for the reinforcement and would have a guess (and that's all it is) at where it might be. Based on those last two, i'd further hazard a guess at what sort of effect it might have on  ride and Crr (hint: they probably don't overlap much) but i'll wait until they're actually tested before actually making a judgement. We are talking about the Veloflex SPS system specifically remember.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

4. Could the added weight to re-enforce the tyre be added in a more useful/constructive manner, say to add to the tread thickness, which would give better longevity/puncture protection, yes or no?

Yes, it could be added elsewhere. No, it would probably not be more useful/constructive if the wall or wall + sealant no longer performs its function. We are talking about the Veloflex SPS system though, in which the reinforcement is for a specific reason and so moving that reinforcement would therefore be counter-productive.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

5. Hate is such a strong word, did I use the word hate or was it in fact you, yes or no, answer truthfully?

No, true, projection on my part based on my interpretation of your previous posts. Mea culpa.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

I really don't think the internet is ready for you yet, making up stuff that people have said when they haven't, a narrow minded singular view with no real world experience/no experience of what someone else has in fact but prepared to use foul language to tell someone they are completely wrong yet can't produce any facts/evidence regarding that ... oh hang on, the internet is perfect for you.laugh

I was pissed off, as I said, and not ready for more bollocks, and apart from attriubuting 'hate' i haven't  made anything up by the look of it.Look what I said about the Veloflex tyres, look at what they are trying to do and where the reinforcement is likely to be made, and maybe consider how you know they're "garbage".

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Ride what you like but tubeless specific tyres with tubes are garbage compared to like for like non tubeless tyres, the difference is noticeable to this user, the ride is harsher, slower and the tyres are for the most part more expensive too. 

Of course they are,  never said otherwise, but why the hell would you run tubeless tyres with tubes ? If you want a discussion about tubeless/tubeless-ready and regular clinchers, then i'm more than happy to - I use both and have favourites from both camps, no axe to grind for either - but i'm not wasting time discussing how using something wrong makes them perform more poorly.

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peted76 [1619 posts] 3 weeks ago
1 like

@taity52 - in answer to your original question, just in case it wasn't clear - yes the giant wheels you are getting will be perfectly fine for either clinchers or running them tubeless.

The only main difference is like you say replacing the tyres with normal clincher ones which you'll be able to get on and off the rim easier. 

If it's a new bike you're buying, just ask them not to add the sealant when they build it up, if it's a LBS, they might even give you some cash for swapping the gavia's out with another tyre.