Confused about Clothing

nniff wrote:

One more thing - wet and cold feet.  The answer is:

Neoprene overshoes, which let the water in, with;

A pair of shoes big enough for two thick pairs of socks, which let the water in, with;

Sealskin or Endura waterproof socks, which let the water in at the top, with;

A couple of wraps of masking tape around the top to stop the water running in from the top (I'm not man enough for gaffa tape), and;

A pair of DeFeet Woolie Boolies to keep my tootsies warm.  

:o)   How many winters to work that out - the one just gone was the wettest of wet, and provided ample opportunity for experimentation.

 

Thank you for the additional information

nniff wrote:

A lot of this has to do with how hot you run and how hard you're working.  For me, knees come out at 8 degress, with a bit of latitude to around 10' if it's overcast or drizzling, in which case i'll wear a fetching below-the knee number but not full length.

I generally run hot.  I'll be down to my thinest, single layer clothing when others are wearing bib longs, jackets, hats and overshoes.

The one thing that I would not do without is an ultralightweight gilet.  I wear it when I start off, and usually remove it after 10-15 minutes when I've warmed up.  Similarly, I have arm warmers in various weights.  

When it gets colder, I add a baselayer, still with arm warmers and a gilet.  4 degrees, or below, I usually wear a Castelli or Bioracer fleecy long sleeve jersey, not windproof.  The gilet features again.  

I have a Gabba jersey - can't wear it - it's windproof and it's too hot.  The waterproofing is crap compared to Stolen Goat/Bioracer.  Stolen Goat Orkaan waterproof jerseys and arm warmers are the absolute dog's danglies.  A bit of wind resistance, but not too much so I don't overheat.  When they're new, they are pretty much waterproof, and after a lot of use they're still good for about an hour of rain.  If it's showery, I wear one of those.  I sometimes wearthose with armwarmers and a baselayer in winter insteaad of a long sleeve jersey.  On their own for showery spring/autumn days.

Waterproof jackets - only if it's actually properly raining, and then it's one of the Gore shakedry jackets.  Small enough to go in a jersey pocket.  Only if it's raining though - I overheat otherwise. Stupid expensive, but at least it's wearable, which my others are not, being far too sweaty.

If it's 2 degrees or below, I sometimes wear a Castelli Mortirolo jacket, which has a windproof front, or a very thin, pocketable jacket with one of the fleece jerseys.  Quite often that will go over the gilet, so that I can just take the long sleeve windproof off.

At that temperature, I have some Assos bib longs with double fleece on the front - still not windproof - too hot otherwise.

Essentially, I'm all about flexibility, which really hinges aorund a gilet.  Rapha at the moment, but the last one was a Sportful Hotpack.  It has to be 18 degrees and without a cloud in the sky for me to leave home without it, or the Decthalon £3.50 armwarmers

Again, excellent info being passed on.
Thank you very much

Pilot Pete wrote:

I don't wear bib tights. When the temperature dips below 15*C I wear an Under Armour Cold Gear long sleeved thermal top, then a normal summer cycling jersey over that. 

When it dips below 10*C I wear Roubaix (fleece lined for warmth) bib shorts with Roubaix leg warmers. Why? Because if you fall off it is often your knee that takes the hit and rips open. Replacing a pair of leg warmers is much cheaper than a pair of bib tights.

The other advantage to thermal shorts is it gives you more versatility - between 10-15*C I may wear the thermal shorts but no leg warmers, or just knee warmers. If it warms up a bit you can remove the warmers and put them in your jersey pockets, if you choose bib tights, you have to wear them the whole ride!

Depending on the weather report I may, or may not carry a gilet/ lightweight windproof jacket. In my experience forget about 'waterproof' - as anything that is truly waterproof is never going to breath sufficiently to keep you dry unless you are putting in very little effort and thus not sweating. I accept that I will get wet either from rain or sweat, the key is keeping the windchill off, which is what will make you really cold. So I go for a gabba style jersey (I have Le Col's short sleeve version) and carry a gillet as another layer just in case I have to stop and need it.

Full on winter boots (goretex lined) are pretty good at keeping the cold out. However, if it is raining, rain gets in the top, or from capillary action down your socks and into the boots. I've successfully used Grip Grab neoprene gaiters over the top of the boot to seal against my leg. This will give a couple of hours of dry feet before capillary action will get your feet wet.

If I want longer than a couple of hours of warm feet in cold, wet conditions I swap the gaiters for Spatz neoprene overshoes, which reach up almost to your knees. It is a bit of a faff putting all this on, but I've done 6hrs+ in winter wearing these and kept warm feet when everyone else's overshoes have long past let water and cold in.

The trick is to put your socks on, pit your leg warmers on and roll them up, put the Spatz on, with the top above the top of your sock against your bare leg (stops the capillary action down your sock), roll the bottoms up, put your boots on, roll the Spatz down over the boots, then roll your leg warmers down over the Spatz to ankle height. Cosy and dry feet, which makes all the difference.

So you will see that I like the versatility that individual items can give you rather than being tied into one garment for a whole ride, especially in changeable conditions, when all of a sudden it becomes too hot etc.

PP

Excellent info, thank you very much

SimonAY wrote:

For when autumn/early spring riding ( say when the temp is between 7-12C) I would recommend getting a Gabba. When worn with a base layer and arm warmers i find it's plenty warm enough, won't flap about and is water repellent. The RRP is expensive but they're normally on sale at most places and it will last you forever

Thank you Sir.

james.bowman wrote:

As said above, when the mercury drops below 10 degrees you probably want to consider bib tights, most likely with a fleecy backing for extra warmth.

You will definitely want a winter weight base layer for when it gets cooler (most likely merino wool or a fleecy synthetic fabric). You can change base layers depending on the season going thicker or thinner, sleeved or short sleeved/sleeveless to extend the effective temperature ranges of your other clothes.

For your top you will likely need to decide between soft shell or hard shell. The traditional, layered approach was to use a base layer and long sleeve Jersey then layer over windproof gillets, jackets or waterproof hardshells depending on the conditions. Now days some people prefer the convenience of a soft shell that combines the properties of many of these layers in a single garment. With a softshell you get the thermal properties and tailored fit of a long sleeve Jersey with the windproof features of a hardshell. You also get very high water resistance although not as much as a waterproof hardshell. You trade some of the waterproofness for increased breathability and material 'feel' and fit. You also trade some of the flexibility of the layering approach for convenience of an all in one garment. Last winter I rode with a long sleeve, mid weight merino base layer and a castelli perfetto soft shell. I was fine even down to -2 but bear in mind we all run at different temperatures. If you like the idea of a soft shell take a look for clothes made from gore windstopper or Polartec Powershield/neoshell

Awesome, thank you very much.

Generally speaking, how do you know if a jacket is hard or soft shell?
The ones I mentioned in the OP (and some others I've looked at) don't say which they are.
Do I need to look for their claimed thermal abilities, instead of looking at their claimed water resistance and breathability?
Or is it their material construction?

james.bowman wrote:

The jackets you referenced are hard shells. A softshell typically doesn't have taped seams so cannot be referred to as 'waterproof'. In really heavy and sustained downpours a bit of water can get through a softshell especially around the critical seams (top of shoulders, etc). Some people who wear softshells are happy to accept this, others carry a lightweight emergency waterproof just in case.

Softshells also tend to have a brushed or fleecy inner face for insulation. They also tend to be made from stretch fabrics and have a lot less bulk, weight and more breathability than a traditional layering setup. You can think of them a bit like a wind and water resistant jersey.

Look for fabrics like Gore Windstopper which is now called Gore-tex Infinium (not to be confused with Gore-tex - both fabrics are made by the same company but Gore-tex is their waterproof range of fabrics). Castelli pretty much pioneered soft shells for cycling - take a look at their Perfetto (long sleeved) or Gabba (short sleeved) or Perfetto Convertible (zip off sleeves). Also Polartec Powershield or Nanoshell are other similar fabrics like the DHB rain defence jersey.

Thank you for the explanation

hawkinspeter wrote:

For a base layer, I use a long sleeved 100% merino top. I've found them to last for ages though I only use the 'hand-wash' setting on the washing machine and never tumble dry it.

I've got some arm and leg warmers that I've never got around to using, so maybe wait to see if you really need them.

I opt for long-legged bib tights when the temperature is below around 10°, but the most crucial bit of kit is winter boots (Northwave Arctic are brill).

A good selection of gloves for different conditions is highly recommended too.

I've got a looser fitting Gorewear jacket (an older model) that I use for rain (though I try to avoid riding in the rain) and also when the temperature drops.

If I were you, I'd wait to see what works for your style of riding and metabolism.

Thank you for your help

Grahamd wrote:

Hi, that is a lot of questions, without knowing your distances and riding frequency is hard to answer all, so at the risk of appearing rude I'll focus just on base layers.

I have only worn my arm warmers once, knee warmers twice and leg warmers not much more. However base layers on most rides. There is a vast amount of choice depending on your budget, having tried a few I am a fan of Assos. No idea what they've made of but they just work, keeping your temperature measured, whilst being supremely comfortable. Worth the price IMHO.

Thank you for your help.
I would say my distances are usually 20 to 30 miles on average. About 5 or 6 days a week.
Budget, would be lower to mid range. But I'd spend the extra money if needed.