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Dickhead riders!

Out for a pootle today as the weather's quite mild and it's nice to get outside. Most of my UK riding is done on cycle paths due to dickhead drivers.
Today's ride was the Millennium/Dee coastal path and the spur up towards Parkgate. A nice wide path which is used by many local clubs of which I have complained about before. It's a shared path you dickheads!
Anyway, back to today, oncoming club ride with riders taking up most of the path, no obvious shouts from the "leader" nor hand movements. I will always take the primary position and more than happy to let other path users have 50% of the path. One of this club, who I know and will be contacting, shouted to "move over".
I passed them again as they were returning back up Wirral to their club in the north, again holding the primary position and this time hearing the shout of "push him over".

This is not the attitude I'd expect from a cyclist and especially not in the current era where cyclists have been pushed and seriously injured by dickhead drivers.

I will be contacting the club and asking that this dickhead rider justifies his comments.
Rant over.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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36 comments

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Greenpedal | 1 month ago
0 likes

" Most of my UK riding is done on cycle paths due to dickhead drivers."
So says a di**head cyclist

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don simon fbpe replied to Greenpedal | 1 month ago
1 like

 This evidence based or pure opinion?

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Hirsute replied to don simon fbpe | 1 month ago
0 likes

pure trolling.

 

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don simon fbpe replied to Hirsute | 1 month ago
1 like

Can't I play with the troll? yes

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Greenpedal replied to don simon fbpe | 1 month ago
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Evidence

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don simon fbpe replied to Greenpedal | 1 month ago
1 like

So bring it to the table.

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john_smith | 1 month ago
0 likes

Typical wannabe racers who don't know to ride. Experienced cyclists tend to slow right down and ride single file in situations like this.

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don simon fbpe | 1 month ago
2 likes

Reply Nº1 received a week after my email sent.

Quote:

Firstly let me apologise for the slow response. I have soul access to the club email and I have been on holiday this week. 

Secondly let me apologise for any poor behaviour from our club members. I will endeavour to find out what happened as we do not tolerate any bad conduct in the club.   Without speaking to those involved, I can say with certainty that the shout of “move over” will not have been aimed at you but at the other rides in the group as that is just a way of making sure everyone is aware of an approaching cyclist/runner/pedestrian. 

Please let me investigate and I will come back to you next week.

Investigation complete and reply Nº2 received today.

Quote:

Firstly, sorry again for the delay in responding to you.  I was on holiday when your first email came in and I have since come down with flu (probably following the flight home).
 
I have spoken to the members present on the ride on the day in question.
 
Each rider confirmed that they are unaware of any such shouts, and it may just be a case of a simple miscommunication as the group do use shouts such as “car back”, “bike up” and as part of this "move over" would be aimed at the rest of the group behind them, not at the oncoming rider/pedestrian etc.
 
In any event, I am sorry that you felt the need to complain and I have taken this opportunity to send a club wide communication about riding etiquette and interacting with the public, but must say I am satisfied that there has been no poor conduct on this occasion.
 
We hope you continue to enjoy riding safely.
 
Yours in sport

I will respond to them before deciding whether to name them.

My email to them.

Quote:

Hi, I had the displeasure of crossing paths with a group of your riders through Burton Marsh yesterday.
As a solo rider I am extremely careful to not exceed 50% of the shared path, I saw a group of riders coming 2 or 3 abreast, I ride in essentially a primary position which is with the outside of the bars close to the centre line of the path.

I was greeted with a shout of “move over” from one of the group that was among your club riders. Shocking in itself and expected from a driver to a cyclist.

My second crossing of paths has left me enraged, especially given the potential consequences and high profile cases in the news, this time upon passing I could hear the shout of “push him over”

The benefit of club shirts is that it makes people identifiable.

I would be grateful if the gentleman could offer a response to this by way of email and explain why either comment were in any way acceptable.

yours,

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mark1a replied to don simon fbpe | 1 month ago
9 likes

Club Admin Droid wrote:

I have soul access to the club email and I have been on holiday this week. 

 

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chrisonabike replied to mark1a | 1 month ago
0 likes

But I thought he said they were roadies?

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hawkinspeter replied to mark1a | 1 month ago
2 likes

mark1a wrote:

Club Admin Droid wrote:

I have soul access to the club email and I have been on holiday this week. 

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Oldfatgit replied to don simon fbpe | 1 month ago
0 likes

I'm gonna say that in your email [as posted above], direction of travel is ambiguous.

'Coming 2 or 3 abreast could be interpreted as from behind or from the front.
A simple "towards me" or from "behind me" would have removed any ambiguity and made the riders actions harder to defend.

It reads to me like the respondent has chosen to take the 'from behind, hence the explanation.

As a regular club rider of both road and gravel, I would have expected -
From behind: nose [or equivalent], single up, keep right
From approach: nose [or equivalent], single up, keep left

True, there are accompanying hand signals, but if your gonna shout ... you shout properly.

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don simon fbpe replied to Oldfatgit | 1 month ago
1 like

Oldfatgit wrote:

I'm gonna say that in your email [as posted above], direction of travel is ambiguous. 'Coming 2 or 3 abreast could be interpreted as from behind or from the front. A simple "towards me" or from "behind me" would have removed any ambiguity and made the riders actions harder to defend. It reads to me like the respondent has chosen to take the 'from behind, hence the explanation. As a regular club rider of both road and gravel, I would have expected - From behind: nose [or equivalent], single up, keep right From approach: nose [or equivalent], single up, keep left True, there are accompanying hand signals, but if your gonna shout ... you shout properly.

Am I right in thinking that you can't determine whether "move over" or "push him over" are acceptable, or not, unless you know the direction of travel...?

EDIT: Having thought a bit, direction have some bearing, club riders do have a tendency to close pass and upon questioning respond that it's perfectly safe and one should learn how to ride in a group (or go home?). Which puts the actions of this group into question even further, why didn't they close ranks, half wheel, bang bars and show me just how bloody great they are?

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Oldfatgit replied to don simon fbpe | 1 month ago
1 like

Where did I say that I found their comments acceptable?

I wasn't there, I only have your word on what happened.

"Move Over" *could* have been defended as a shout from with in the group to another group member.

It is ambiguous as a shout.

"Push him over" - harder to defend ... but without proof of video / audio, it's your word against their's - and you are out numbered by x to 1. Not right, but that's the way it goes.

Do I agree that some club riding is appalling? Yes. Even in the club I belong to, faster groups can overtake slower groups [of the same club] like dicks.

Did something happen? ... I've only your word on it, and tbh, your just a stranger on the Internet and I don't know *you* - just like you don't know *me*.
You feel strongly enough that something *did* happen as you've opened a thread on here, emailed the club and posted their responses.

I suggested that by using better language it would have been harder for the club to defend. I've also said what language would have expected from the club riders.

I wish you well in your pursuit of this and suggest that in future you consider writing your complaint letters based on the assumption that the respondent wasn't there.

You may also choose to purchase a video camera to support your claims in the future.

Good luck, and happy riding.

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don simon fbpe replied to Oldfatgit | 1 month ago
0 likes

You didn't, you jjust didn't mention their comments at all, your preference was to focus on directions of travel and as I said that was just my reading of your comments.

Indeed, it is my word against theirs and I know what I heard. In over 40 years of riding solo and in groups, involuntarily or not, I have never, I repeat never, heard "move over" as an internal command. But if it were just that I would have let it slip and continued on with my life.

"push him over" clarified that it was a comment directed at me, and as for what had happened, I assume it was that I held a primary position and they had to wobble in order to share the path. Intonation and volume was a big giveway too.

Choose a video camera to support my claims? The simple answer that one is no!! You can make a judgement on who I am with info that you have available and whether I am of honest/truthful character, or not. The last time I emailed a club was 8 years ago, they responded positively. Not really a habitual whinger, in spite of club riders giving me many opportunities ( I do actually have video and Strava evidence of that one).

This was posted to raise an issue and see what happens, the club in question has responded suitably, the explanation of being an internal "move over" is complete bullshit, the ignoring of "push him over" is confirmation of that. The sending of an internal memo is sufficient.

Finally, the club still hasn't been named.

enjoy your club rides, just don't be a dickhead.

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don simon fbpe | 2 months ago
3 likes

We have a response.

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hawkinspeter replied to don simon fbpe | 2 months ago
5 likes

don simon fbpe wrote:

We have a response.

 

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don simon fbpe replied to hawkinspeter | 2 months ago
2 likes

Not much else to report, an unsatisfactory response so far. I have never ever heard a group ride issue "move over" as an internal instruction to their mates at the sight of an oncoming cyclist. I may have dismissed this had there not been the "push him over" comment a bit later. The response states that they are "certain" it was an internal instruction to other group members. The intonation said otherwise.

Further investigations and a full denial expected next week.

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hawkinspeter replied to don simon fbpe | 2 months ago
3 likes

Sounds like they're doubling down on being arseholes

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don simon fbpe replied to hawkinspeter | 2 months ago
0 likes

You think?

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mattw | 2 months ago
2 likes

Hmmm.

Make a report for riding without due care if you have video?

If it's accessible to the public, even if not a Right of Way, traffic law applies - just as in an open-for-business supermarket carpark or National Trust estate road.
 

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keirik | 2 months ago
0 likes

I going to guess it's a local club that ride in green, I've had problems with them both when riding and when driving.

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don simon fbpe replied to keirik | 2 months ago
1 like

Oh! There's two that I can think of.

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Waleskun | 2 months ago
5 likes

Think I can guess the club as I passed them yesterday. I find club runs to be problematic on this path. To be honest it really isn't appropriate for large clubs runs to barrel up a smallish path with lots of dogs, children and other riders around. They can easily use the high road and go through Puddington/Burton/Ness. Also trying the pass a club run is a nightmare on the path. Some seem to actively make it more difficult than needed and just creates more risk for everyone.

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don simon fbpe replied to Waleskun | 2 months ago
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Who'd want to use the road? It's full of dickheads in cars telling folks to "move over" and in the worst cases actually pushing cyclists over!!

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Waleskun replied to don simon fbpe | 2 months ago
2 likes

Unfortunately I find that attitude from drivers on most roads

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peted76 | 2 months ago
5 likes

Name the club. 

Clubs need to know when their 'acceptable riding' is unacceptable.

 

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don simon fbpe replied to peted76 | 2 months ago
2 likes

They have been emailed, they will know once they read the email, I await their response and will more than likely post it up here, in its entirety.

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hawkinspeter | 2 months ago
3 likes

I don't ride in a club (I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member), but I'm sure they all vary a lot with their percentage of idiots. Those riders do sound like selfish idiots though.

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don simon fbpe replied to hawkinspeter | 2 months ago
5 likes

It was just the one fella in this particular club ride, I've had banter with other members on other rides. There does seem to be a common trait among the clubs around here where they think they are superior to other shared path users.

I have video and Strava to show how one group overtook me then slowed down, I wasn't up for the future cat and mouse had I overtaken them that I assumed would happen.

Most just ride en peloton, which is why I assume a position to hold 50% of the path. I am also deranged enough to take the head on collision.

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