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The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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12 comments

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the little onion | 3 months ago
4 likes

Appeasing conspiracy theorists > facilitating cyclists

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Steve K | 3 months ago
14 likes

Ah, missed this - I just put the link on the live blog.  This quote is really revealing - “It is important that people who choose to walk and cycle can do so safely, but this should not come at the cost of people who rely on cars" - ie, your safety is less important that drivers' convenience.

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chrisonabike replied to Steve K | 3 months ago
2 likes

This is literally nothing new (apart from mentioning cycling at all...)!  De facto (and in many cases in rules / guidance) "roads are built for cars" - or rather "public space is devoted towards prioritising motor traffic and storage".

Compare and contrast:

UK - maximise motor traffic capacity consistent with safety.

NL - sustainable safety.  This has various formulations but probably amounts to maximising the efficient movement of people (and use of public space).  This also has to fit in with some pretty comprehensive environmental regulations including maximum noise limits in urban areas etc.

Note that the total NL version is much more comprehensive than "Vision Zero" - which always seems more of a slogan to me...

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hawkinspeter replied to chrisonabike | 3 months ago
6 likes

chrisonabike wrote:

This is literally nothing new (apart from mentioning cycling at all...)!  De facto (and in many cases in rules / guidance) "roads are built for cars" - or rather "public space is devoted towards prioritising motor traffic and storage".

Compare and contrast:

UK - maximise motor traffic capacity consistent with safety.

NL - sustainable safety.  This has various formulations but probably amounts to maximising the efficient movement of people (and use of public space).  This also has to fit in with some pretty comprehensive environmental regulations including maximum noise limits in urban areas etc.

Note that the total NL version is much more comprehensive than "Vision Zero" - which always seems more of a slogan to me...

I think that the UK is using "Vision Zero" not as a slogan, but as a shorthand mnemonic:

  • Vision of everyone in a car all the time
  • Zero effort to get people to walk or cycle
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CyclingGardener | 3 months ago
12 likes

Interesting and revealing use of language in quote from DfT: 'those who choose to walk or cycle' vs 'those who rely on cars' . . .

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hawkinspeter | 3 months ago
8 likes

Well, what a surprise!

A political party run by self-interested liars and voted for by old gullible fools

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essexian | 3 months ago
12 likes

When I were a lad... back in the 1960's and 70's, we had everything we needed within 15 minutes: school, shops, cinema, swimming pool, work (for our parents: they stopped sending kids up chimney by then! Cheek!) etc. So, to us who are somewhat more senior, 15 minute cities are nothing new.

No, I don't want to go back to the good old days of rickets and pea soupers, but discouraging people from driving a few hundred metres when it would be possible to walk that far without issues, surely must be a good thing. Just look at how unfit many people are and how the planet is burning due to fossil fuel usage and know it is time to return to the days of doing things locally.

Perhaps a step would be to charge for parking at supermarkets/out of town shopping centres. 

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wycombewheeler replied to essexian | 3 months ago
7 likes

essexian wrote:

No, I don't want to go back to the good old days of rickets and pea soupers, but discouraging people from driving a few hundred metres when it would be possible to walk that far without issues, surely must be a good thing.

but also the 15 minute city is betetr for building a sense of community, when you see people you actually know when using facilities, becuase everyone is using their local facilities.

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essexian replied to wycombewheeler | 3 months ago
8 likes

True. And, if you are walking, you are more likely to keep an eye out for one and other including the old, infirm and young, rather than rushing by at excessive speed thinking about only oneself. 

Frankly, I could not pick the person who lives three doors away out of a line up if pressed to do so: we have so little interaction in this street.... although I know their cat!

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hawkinspeter replied to essexian | 3 months ago
5 likes

essexian wrote:

True. And, if you are walking, you are more likely to keep an eye out for one and other including the old, infirm and young, rather than rushing by at excessive speed thinking about only oneself. 

That's all well and good, but how are MPs supposed to get rich from that?

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essexian replied to hawkinspeter | 3 months ago
5 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

That's all well and good, but how are MPs supposed to get rich from that?

A Sidewalk Resource Expense Tax (an ARSE tax?) 

A Tax on Strava segments walked/ran/cycled?

Streetlights which can only be turned on my pressing a contactless phone/card against?

Tollgates on the pavements?

Restricting people to 10 miles walking per month and then charging £1 a yard thereafter: everyone would need to be tagged....tags which could be rented from one of their "friends."

There are ways.....

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giff77 replied to essexian | 3 months ago
2 likes

I think that the vast majority of us live within 15 minutes of various amenities. My last address had everything to hand and the car was kept for long journeys. My new address is pretty much the same.  The media and conspiracy theorists made such an issue of it being an infringement of rights that it has become impossible to spell out to some that you don't need to drive half a mile to get a paper.

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