Coroner in Dr Katharine Giles inquest warns cyclists not to undertake lorries

giff77 wrote:

I'm with Wolfshade on this one. Many of us on the forum here have the sense to hang back whenever there is an HGV or bus ahead. In fact if I'm not going to hit the white line ahead of any traffic I will not filter through to the ASL regardless of what vehicle is ahead of me. Sadly many commuters have been convinced that the cycle lane feeding the ASL is a safe place to be and do not realise that heavier vehicles will cut the corner in turning or that a motorist will just turn without indicating. I would scrap the feeder lane and if a cyclist arrives at the ASL ahead of other vehicles fine. If not then just wait up in the queue. But we need to scrap this idea of filtering through to get to the front.

The sooner better thought through junctions are designed the better.

I agree with this. As a country bumpkin, I moved to London four years ago (and have since left after being hit by cars too many times and deciding that I'm not quite built for the City!) and began riding a bike originally as a means of getting to work.

Where I come from there's no ASL's or cycling lanes etc (there's no need, it's all country lanes etc). So when presented with the way the infrastructure works in London you're immediately coerced into thinking that the marked-out lines are there for your benefit. You can't really blame someone who might have come from an understanding of an entirely different traffic culture.

Something needs to change in London to make cyclists aware of the imminent danger surrounding them at all times, they shouldn't be lead to believe that simply using filter lanes, cycle lanes and ASL's allow them to travel safely.

This is such a sad story. I hope it changes there asap.

themartincox wrote:

"The court heard that the lorry’s left indicator was flashing, and that there was also an audible warning that it was due to turn left prior to the fatal collision"

An unwise manoeuvre from the cyclist, as sad as this incident is, the driver was doing all that he could to alert traffic as to his intentions - seems pretty blameless from that description.

Got to hang back if they are indicating!

Good advice, but I would add that, as lorry drivers, we are not perfect, and neither are the trucks we drive. Whether the indicators are flashing or not, just in case they're not working, or the driver hasn't indicated, don't even think about undertaking - it's just not worth the few seconds you might save. RIP.

Wolfshade wrote:

Most on road cycle lanes ride up the inside of the traffic, then those lovely ASL which the majority of them have a filter lane up the left handside actively encouraging, nay, demanding that cyclists enter from the inside of traffic.

With all this infrastructure pushing cyclists up the inside it is little wonder that this is what happens.

I disagree, yes the lanes are on the left but it is up to the individual as to whether or not they ride down the inside of traffic, effectively undertaking. We as in cyclist could just as easy wait behind the vehicle in front at lights and ride off as they change. Especially if vehicles are indicating.

Wolfshade wrote:

Most on road cycle lanes ride up the inside of the traffic, then those lovely ASL which the majority of them have a filter lane up the left handside actively encouraging, nay, demanding that cyclists enter from the inside of traffic.

I have to say it does sound as if she made a very stupid, in hindsight, manoeuvre and paid very dearly for it. It does raise the question as to whether ASLs and the feeder lanes are "fit for purpose", I don't know if there was or was not an ASL in this case, but anything that suggests it is a good idea to go into the blind zones of trucks is questionable and the habits it creates.

When will we be seeing traffic engineers being held accountable for their input into road planning. Who creates pinchpoints? who create fast junctions with a primary purpose of keeping the traffic (cars) moving?

Wolfshade wrote:

Quote:

cyclists have to be aware of the danger of riding up the inside of lorries

While I agree with this sentiment, there is moreover a problem that frequently cycling infrastructure encourages cyclists to pass on the inside of vehicles.
Most on road cycle lanes ride up the inside of the traffic, then those lovely ASL which the majority of them have a filter lane up the left handside actively encouraging, nay, demanding that cyclists enter from the inside of traffic.

With all this infrastructure pushing cyclists up the inside it is little wonder that this is what happens.

And it's attitudes like this which really don't help. What on earth happened to taking responsibility for your own actions? No infrastructure in the world is "demanding that cyclists enter from the inside of traffic", what an absurd statement to make. It's perfectly possible to hang back behind buses and lorries at junctions to avoid being on the inside when the lights turn green even if the cycle lane does go down the left hand side to the front. You'll add seconds to your journey but I'd rather arrive late than never!

What a stupid comment. How can we all want more people to cycle, and then say that the only people who will be allowed to survive going out on their bikes are experienced survivors like us?

Of course people should take personal responsibility, but it is also the responsibility of planners not to encourage people into dangerous places with evil infrastructure.