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Fran Ventoso: Disc brakes should never have been allowed in peloton

Movistar rider says disc brake caused deep cut to his leg at Paris-Roubaix

Movistar rider Fran Ventoso says disc brakes should never have been allowed into the professional peloton after sustaining deep cuts to his leg in a crash at Paris-Roubaix on Sunday.

Two teams rode the cobbled Classic on bikes equipped with disc brakes, which have been trialled in road races since last year – Italy’s Lampre-Merida, and the French outfit, Direct Energie.

The crash, which happened on the Quérénaing sector with 115 kilometres to ride, was the one that saw the field split, ultimately putting paid to the hopes of the men who started the race as joint favourites, Fabian Cancellara and Peter Sagan.

The 33-year-old rider, who has been with Movistar for six years, posted his open letter to Facebook – there is an English translation beneath the Spanish text – along with graphic pictures of his injuries.

He made it clear that he welcomed disc brakes being used in cyclo-cross races, as well as by amateur riders in sportives, but turning to professional road races, said; “Was there really anyone who thought things like Sunday’s wouldn’t happen? Really nobody thought they were dangerous? Nobody realised they can cut, they can become giant knives?”

Recalling the crash that led to his injury, he said there were “riders falling everywhere. I’ve got to brake but I can’t avoid crashing against the rider in front of me, who was also trying not to hit the ones ahead.

“I didn’t actually fall down: it was only my leg touching the back of his bike. I keep riding. But shortly afterwards, I have a glance at that leg: it doesn’t hurt, there’s not a lot of blood covering it, but I can clearly see part of the periosteum, the membrane or surface that covers my tibia.

“I get off my bike, throw myself against the right-hand side of the road over the grass, cover my face with my hands in shock and disbelief, start to feel sick … I could only wait for my team car and the ambulance, while a lot of things come through my mind.”

Ventoso said that shortly after his crash, the Etixx-Quick Step rider Nikolas Maes (pictured left here after crashing in the Arenberg Trench) was brought to the same ambulance, with a deep cut to his knee apparently caused by a disc brake.

Paris Roubaix Maes - 1.jpg

Pointing out that 16 bikes were each equipped with a pair of disc brakes making a total of 32, he continued: “One question comes inevitably and immediately to one’s mind: what will happen when 396 discs get into a race where 198 riders ferociously battle for position?”

“Disc brakes should have NEVER arrived into the peloton, not at least as we know them right now,” Ventoso went on.

“I haven’t met any rider who has run out of braking power with traditional brakes; I haven’t known anyone who didn’t see his wheels skidding when you brake with all power you’ve got, no matter traditional or disc brakes. Then: why using them?”

Highlighting that disc brakes could also cause issues with wheel changes, including for neutral service providers, he likened them to “giant machetes,” adding, “I’ve been lucky: I didn’t get my leg chopped off, it’s just some muscle and skin. But can you imagine that disc cutting a jugular or a femoral vein? I would prefer not to.”

Ventoso called on fellow professionals to demand action regarding the use of disc brakes before anyone became seriously injured or worse.

“We always think that it’s not a problem if it doesn’t happen to ourselves. We always wait for horrible things to happen in order to take measures. Sooner or later, it could happen to anybody: it’s a matter of probability, we’ve all got the same.”

He concluded: “Discs produce cuts. This time it was me; tomorrow, it can be more serious and happen to others.”

The trialling of disc brakes in professional road races has proved to be one of the more contentious issues in the sport in the past year or so.

In February, former UCI president Pat McQuaid said it was “totally ridiculous” to permit their use in the peloton, and that the governing body had been “irresponsible” to allow them.

“Rather than carrying out tests, the UCI has left it to the teams to choose between using traditional brakes or disc brakes,” he said. “That’s irresponsible!

“Now there are two kinds of braking system in the peloton. Disc brakes are more powerful than ones using pads, but are vulnerable to shock and in the event of a crash can cause injuries.”

> McQuaid – Permitting disc brakes in peloton “totally ridiculous”

In December last year, after the UCI confirmed that disc brakes would be allowed in WorldTour races this season, the professional riders’ association, CPA, said it would survey its members to find out their views on them and present its findings to the UCI. No findings have to date been made public.

The CPA said at the time: “Certainly our sport is also a mechanical sport, but so far, research and innovation should not be implemented without considering the priority concerns of the riders, especially in terms of security,” it declares in a press release today.

“On numerous occasions we have exposed the various problems associated with this technology.”

> Do pros want disc brakes or not?

Among star riders to have expressed opinions on disc brakes is Vincenzo Nibali.

The Astana rider is widely held to be the best descender in the peloton in the rain – a situation where disc brakes would provide extra stopping power compared to conventional rim brakes.

He said last year that  he welcomed the opportunity to use them but added that he had reservations about how safe they would be in a crash involving multiple riders.

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

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41 comments

Avatar
ch | 7 years ago
0 likes

If it's just the sharp edges of the rotors, then couldn't the rotors be machined to have round edges?  Seems simple enough.  Cheer up bike industry, this is not a loss of sales, but an opportunity to sell even higher end round-edged disc rotors at an even higher price (for those willing to part with the money).    Even better for industry would be from UCI on down to require these rounded rotors for all sanctioned races.  Massive sales, massive $$$$.

I am not knocking disc brakes.  I love them.   I'll use calipers for all out lightweight sporting rides in the dry lasting less than 3 hours,  but for anything else I am changing to disc brakes.  

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Ciclismo | 7 years ago
0 likes

Disc brakes banned in pro level competition? I couldn't care less because I don't race - I see the advantages for myself and will buy a bike with discs even for the road for my circumstances.

As for those claiming discs are ugly and therefore should be banned, by that logic a lot of stuff should be banned (such as the fugly race kits some teams pay huge sums for), but I for one think discs look good. 

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fukawitribe | 7 years ago
0 likes

Re : chainsets. There is always an exposed part of the chainset, which is none too difficult to hit with your knee - believe me - even your own left knee on your own chainset from particularly intrepid commentor here. There is also absolutely no need for it to be spinning - if you throw yourself at any jagged piece of stationary metal with sufficient force you can cause some quite interesting injuries. That force is surprisingly low IME... I'm not sure if that's what happened here, or whether is was a disc, but then again neither is Ventoso.. I will say it doesn't look like any disc injury i've seen before and does have characteristics that seem to suggest other causes, but we just don't know.

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Alankk | 7 years ago
2 likes

WHat a lot of rubbish. The point before skidding is the fastest way to slowing so as disc brake will offer better modulation control and thus quicker stopping by feathering closer to that margin of fastest stopping. So if he was running disc then he would have avoided his injuries by stopping in time.

There's risk in everyday life even from crossing the street so to say what might happen or even happen because of disk is an illogical statement as many people have died on rim brakes in the past. You can wear full face helmet, pads and still get femoral bleeding, just as Cédric Gracia once did on an innocent farm track. The answer is to have someone stick a knee to it till medics take over. 

To follow the illogic of his train wreck of a thinking process then chainrings should be ban in place with belt drive. Full face and pads to be mandatory with stabilisers or perhaps everyone hook on a static bike instead of risking life on the roads. Everything bubble wrapped with a bow tie.

Also Pat McQuaid is synonymous with bribery, corruption, defamation, doping etc. The only quote I want to hear from him is an apology for the damage he has greatly contributed to the sport I love. 

This whole piece is an exercise in trolling.

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Marky Legs | 7 years ago
0 likes

Yes, there are lots of ways a rider (pro or otherwise) will be injured in a crash.

I would have thought it was more important to minimise the risk of injury from any part on the bike - and the rider.

Therefore, I do not understand why the discs are not completely round (no cut outs) and the edge not rounded - therefore blunt!

This would probably make them perfectly safe.

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ch replied to Marky Legs | 7 years ago
0 likes

Marky Legs wrote:

Yes, there are lots of ways a rider (pro or otherwise) will be injured in a crash.

I would have thought it was more important to minimise the risk of injury from any part on the bike - and the rider.

Therefore, I do not understand why the discs are not completely round (no cut outs) and the edge not rounded - therefore blunt!

This would probably make them perfectly safe.

 

Wait for it!  A new high end product (rotors with rounded edges) will hit the market soon.  

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surly_by_name | 7 years ago
0 likes

Hope he gets better soon, that's a nasty cut.

Less importantly - I've got no way of knowing whether that cut was caused by a disc rotor and I am not sure anyone else is either (there are lots of sharp things attached to a bike that can cut you when you crash, and plenty of blunt things as well - I got a gash like that on my arm from a gutter (I think) once). I think its a shame that a decision has been taken on the basis of anecdotal rather than statistical evidence, but on the other hand if the riders themselves have decided that they don't want to have them (I think this suspension of disc brakes has been prompted by the CPA) you have to respect that. Although I imagine teams like Roompot - who I think have decided (for budgetary reasons) to use only disc equipped bikes this season are going to feel some pain if the suspension continues.

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whobiggs replied to surly_by_name | 7 years ago
0 likes

surly_by_name wrote:

who I think have decided (for budgetary reasons) to use only disc equipped bikes this season are going to feel some pain if the suspension continues.

 

Oh no not suspension too now! 

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Rapha Nadal | 7 years ago
0 likes

I think some of this is also down to the riders and perhaps education/practise.  Going from a caliper to a disc is some jump in power.  If you're used to grabbing a big handful of caliper brake and not coming to an instant stop, it'll take a while to adjust to a system where the exact opposite happens.

Maybe the UCI are being a bit hasty here and could have implemented some form of educational riding course for the use of discs?

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Edgeley | 7 years ago
1 like

The really amazing thing about this is that Pat McQuaid appears to have been right about something.

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Edgeley | 7 years ago
1 like

The really amazing thing about this is that Pat McQuaid appears to have been right about something.

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Colin Peyresourde | 7 years ago
2 likes

I can see this happening. From his account he goes into the back of the rider in front (not uncommon with or without disc brakes, as others have asserted). If he unclips his left leg to keep upright and touches the brake rotor of the bike in front (jack knifing across the back of the rider in front) his knee is going to be in the perfect position to be sliced across the top of the knee cap.

Disc brakes are perfect for mountain bikes, but not road bikes. The gripping surface on the road is less - as Ventoso notes himself, road bike caliper brakes usually cause you to skid if you squeeze them too tightly. Mountain bikers rarely ride in mass participatory events with as many riders (and so the chances of a mass pile up or crash are fewer). Single track - it's in the name.

I have disc brakes on my CX bike and have badly slashed my hand pulling  the pump valve off the tyre - I got two cuts down my thumb. Last time i did this I got my friend to cover the disc and would have had a similar wound if he hadn't. I like my disc brakes, but I don't find them much better than my standard brake callipers.

It's not as simple as just smoothing the edges (though I think that would work). There's a YouTube video showing how brakes are laser cut from a single sheet of aluminium. That's what makes them affordable. You're likely to double the production cost if you mill out the edge. But the other side is that you might need to make the brake calliper deeper because of the loss of braking surface.

Perhaps a rim guard could be made, but that would make wheel changes harder.

 

 

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Mario29 replied to Colin Peyresourde | 7 years ago
0 likes

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I can see this happening. From his account he goes into the back of the rider in front (not uncommon with or without disc brakes, as others have asserted). If he unclips his left leg to keep upright and touches the brake rotor of the bike in front (jack knifing across the back of the rider in front) his knee is going to be in the perfect position to be sliced across the top of the knee cap.

 

Am I right in thinking you were meant to say "...If he unclips his left leg to keep upright and touches the rear derailleur and cassette of the bike in front..."

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Colin Peyresourde replied to Mario29 | 7 years ago
1 like

Mario29 wrote:

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I can see this happening. From his account he goes into the back of the rider in front (not uncommon with or without disc brakes, as others have asserted). If he unclips his left leg to keep upright and touches the brake rotor of the bike in front (jack knifing across the back of the rider in front) his knee is going to be in the perfect position to be sliced across the top of the knee cap.

 

Am I right in thinking you were meant to say "...If he unclips his left leg to keep upright and touches the rear derailleur and cassette of the bike in front..."

No.....

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fukawitribe replied to Colin Peyresourde | 7 years ago
0 likes

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I can see this happening. From his account he goes into the back of the rider in front (not uncommon with or without disc brakes, as others have asserted). If he unclips his left leg to keep upright and touches the brake rotor of the bike in front (jack knifing across the back of the rider in front) his knee is going to be in the perfect position to be sliced across the top of the knee cap.

Definitely possible, and matches up with how he described the incident. It's also possible to do similar with the back of the chainring coming in from the drive side rear quarter, trust me on this, and you don't need anything spinning - your own momentum is more than sufficient. There's much chunnering on the 'tubes about whether the injury is from a disc, mainly focussing on the apparent serrations in the exposed tissue edge in the photos - but even if this isn't due to a disc then it will happen sooner or later. In this regard I think the riders should have more input into whether to allow them in the pro-peloton. Personally i'd love the trickle down of improvements and in cost and choice for non-professional use if they were allowed, but i'm not the one whose safety and livelyhood is potentially on the line.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

Disc brakes are perfect for mountain bikes, but not road bikes. The gripping surface on the road is less - as Ventoso notes himself, road bike caliper brakes usually cause you to skid if you squeeze them too tightly.

I like disc brakes on road bikes precisely because the 'gripping surface on the road is less' - or rather, half decent hydraulic discs - I prefer the control i've found in the ones i've tried, even against upper tier rim brakes (which I have). Personal preference I guess.

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whobiggs replied to Colin Peyresourde | 7 years ago
0 likes

 

YouTube video showing how brakes are laser cut from a single sheet of aluminium. That's what makes them affordable.

/quote]

 

Aluminium? Really? Wouldn't that be rather soft? cool

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sooshee | 7 years ago
0 likes

If you need a motorcade to go for a ride and you crash on a straight piece

of road you are probably not a real cyclist...

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smcc1879 | 7 years ago
1 like

Hot off the press - the UCI have suspended disc brakes.

http://www.procycling.no/skrekkskade-stanser-bruk-av-skivebremser/

I hope your Norwegian is up to scratch. I don't think the piccies will need any translation though. 

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Rapha Nadal | 7 years ago
4 likes

One man hurt by a rotor, apparently, yet there was another injury caused by a motorbike this weekend.  I think I'd prefer to hear his arguments for/against motos in all fairness!  I also can't understand how a hole has developed in his leg if a disc is a rotating blade type implement? Surely it would just slice in a line?

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balmybaldwin replied to Rapha Nadal | 7 years ago
1 like

Rapha Nadal wrote:

One man hurt by a rotor, apparently, yet there was another injury caused by a motorbike this weekend.  I think I'd prefer to hear his arguments for/against motos in all fairness!  I also can't understand how a hole has developed in his leg if a disc is a rotating blade type implement? Surely it would just slice in a line?

 

Depends which way you slice doesn't it. that looks like he was lucky his kneecap wasn't sliced off

 

I agree tho that motos are a big worry, but thankfully moto into riders is rare. riders and bikes all ending up in a tangle at speed happens almost every race - there's no need to make it more dangerous than it already is through fixing a problem that didn't need fixing. The riders already have the option of running wider tyres if they want better braking & grip in the wet

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canoas | 7 years ago
3 likes

Disc brakes are so ugly and dangerous. Getting cut up in the peloton, oh isn't that lovely!

They would be dangerous in the UK, crit and road races especially and sportives. Get rid of them, part of the skill of road riding is braking in a correct manner, I can't see disc brakes really improving things, though in the wet I heard they are better.

 

But you all must agree they look so horrible on an Italian beauty! Imagine Enve wheels and disc brakes, what a total waste, yuck!

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wycombewheeler replied to canoas | 7 years ago
4 likes
canoas wrote:

Disc brakes are so ugly and dangerous. Getting cut up in the peloton, oh isn't that lovely!

They would be dangerous in the UK, crit and road races especially and sportives. Get rid of them, part of the skill of road riding is braking in a correct manner, I can't see disc brakes really improving things, though in the wet I heard they are better.

 

But you all must agree they look so horrible on an Italian beauty! Imagine Enve wheels and disc brakes, what a total waste, yuck!

If I was going to splash out on enve wheels, I wouldn't want to bd replacing them within 2 years due to rim damage.

Avatar
earth replied to wycombewheeler | 7 years ago
1 like

wycombewheeler wrote:
canoas wrote:

Disc brakes are so ugly and dangerous. Getting cut up in the peloton, oh isn't that lovely!

They would be dangerous in the UK, crit and road races especially and sportives. Get rid of them, part of the skill of road riding is braking in a correct manner, I can't see disc brakes really improving things, though in the wet I heard they are better.

 

But you all must agree they look so horrible on an Italian beauty! Imagine Enve wheels and disc brakes, what a total waste, yuck!

If I was going to splash out on enve wheels, I wouldn't want to bd replacing them within 2 years due to rim damage.

 

I've had Reynolds carbon wheels for at least two years, I tend to drag the rim brakes down the many hills where I live and I can see absolutely no wear on the rims at all.

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kil0ran replied to canoas | 7 years ago
1 like

canoas wrote:

Disc brakes are so ugly and dangerous. Getting cut up in the peloton, oh isn't that lovely!

They would be dangerous in the UK, crit and road races especially and sportives. Get rid of them, part of the skill of road riding is braking in a correct manner, I can't see disc brakes really improving things, though in the wet I heard they are better.

 

But you all must agree they look so horrible on an Italian beauty! Imagine Enve wheels and disc brakes, what a total waste, yuck!

Loved the disc brakes on my cyclocross bike but yep, they looked bloody ugly in a road bike peloton. 

Avatar
Mario29 | 7 years ago
2 likes

I haven't seen the accident but looks to me that it wasn't caused by the disc brake based on following observation: It seems like the cut is on his left shin slightly to the outside. The disc brakes are on the left hand side of the bike. He said he didn't crash but his leg touched the other bike. Ergo, unless the guy in front of him ended up somehow back to front he couldn't have touched the discs. More likely he caught the rear derailleur/cassette in my opinion.

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matthewn5 | 7 years ago
3 likes

“I haven’t met any rider who has run out of braking power with traditional brakes; I haven’t known anyone who didn’t see his wheels skidding when you brake with all power you’ve got, no matter traditional or disc brakes. Then: why using them?”

Wot he said. Horrific injuries coming to a sportive near you. Don't look at the images on Facebook if you're squeamish.

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Mungecrundle | 7 years ago
3 likes

I wouldn't normally comment on an incident that I didn't witness but 2 thoughts spring immediately to mind:

1. The bicycle in front, the one with disc brakes, that he collided with, was able to stop, but he didn't. All sorts of possible reasons for this: sight lines, reaction times, the bike in front itself colliding with another rider etc, but fact remains the disc braked bike stopped and he didn't.

2. Not that I've seen any disc brake injuries first hand, but that gash does seem both horizontal and ragged, not what I would have expected of a wound caused by a thin non serated disc. Almost looks like a wound I would have expected to see from a rear cassette, except that it's the right leg not the left.

In any event, wishing Mr Ventoso a swift and full recovery to race fitness.

 

Edit:

I don't know my right from my left. Apparently the wound is to his left leg, which would appear to make it unlikely that it came into contact with a brake disc unless the bike he hit was facing the wrong way or upside down which is at odds with his own account of what happened. Pictures of a crash involving another rider in the same race (Nikolas Maes) that Mr Ventoso claims in his letter was injured by a disc brake apparently show no disc braked bicycles involved. However it is only right that the cause of all injuries are properly investigated and that safety of the riders is the priority.

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willvousden replied to Mungecrundle | 7 years ago
4 likes

Mungecrundle wrote:

I wouldn't normally comment on an incident that I didn't witness but 2 thoughts spring immediately to mind:

1. The bicycle in front, the one with disc brakes, that he collided with, was able to stop, but he didn't. All sorts of possible reasons for this: sight lines, reaction times, the bike in front itself colliding with another rider etc, but fact remains the disc braked bike stopped and he didn't.

That really doesn't tell us anything.  Pile-ups and collisions happened before disc brakes were introduced, and will continue to happen.

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Vili Er replied to Mungecrundle | 7 years ago
2 likes

Mungecrundle wrote:

I wouldn't normally comment on an incident that I didn't witness but 2 thoughts spring immediately to mind:

1. The bicycle in front, the one with disc brakes, that he collided with, was able to stop, but he didn't. All sorts of possible reasons for this: sight lines, reaction times, the bike in front itself colliding with another rider etc, but fact remains the disc braked bike stopped and he didn't.

2. Not that I've seen any disc brake injuries first hand, but that gash does seem both horizontal and ragged, not what I would have expected of a wound caused by a thin non serated disc. Almost looks like a wound I would have expected to see from a rear cassette, except that it's the right leg not the left.

In any event, wishing Mr Ventoso a swift and full recovery to race fitness.

 

Edit:

I don't know my right from my left. Apparently the wound is to his left leg, which would appear to make it unlikely that it came into contact with a brake disc unless the bike he hit was facing the wrong way or upside down which is at odds with his own account of what happened. Pictures of a crash involving another rider in the same race (Nikolas Maes) that Mr Ventoso claims in his letter was injured by a disc brake apparently show no disc braked bicycles involved. However it is only right that the cause of all injuries are properly investigated and that safety of the riders is the priority.

 

Brilliant investigatory work. Are you like in CSI or something? 

Avatar
Walo | 7 years ago
16 likes

The point is you cannot get hurt by a rotating chainset as it is almost permanently covered by a riders leg and the rotating crank arm.  A rotating disc remains an rotating knive, mostly unprotected. I would also rate a stationary disc as more dangerous than a stationary chainring with a chain on it (high speed accidents happens with the chain on the big ring).

Let the pros decide what they want to brake with, us mere mortals we can use whatever we find more suitable anyway.

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