Video: Truck driver loses it with cyclist after collision in London

Ramz wrote:

Cat with no tail wrote:

I'm sorry but I just can't understand how anyone who has ever stepped on a bike or driven on the road could suggest this is anything other than the group of cyclists being 100% at fault. Hopefully the guy who nearly got flattened learned his lesson. The gobshite with the camera almost certainly didn't though.

You are probably aware that by law you can't simply say "I have right of way" and crash into someone. Each party is obliged to do what they can to avoid a collision whether they are in the "right" or in the "wrong". I have already 'criticised' both driver and cyclist: I would not have done what either did. I was just questioning why the driver (who was *clearly* aware that there was a bunch of cyclists on his left/just ahead of him) decided to 'barge' through the junction regardless. His attitude afterwards, asserting that he was in the right and had priority (while it may be technically true) actually does not absolve him of his part of the responsibility for a collision. I know there is a tendency for us to try and "blame" one party, and you are correct that if the cyclist hadn't positioned himself there, and behaved in the way that he did, the whole thing could be avoided. My point is about afterwards: if you see someone cycling like a dick, does that give you the right to drive over them?

This is my thinking on this, along with a few others who seem able to see the bigger picture.

It's not a binary blame situation. But most people just don't get it, and they won't, because all they see is the cyclist making a mistake, they ignore everything after that. My friends and girlfriend keep blaming the cyclist and ignore my questions of whose fault is it if the driver cannot see them (his vehicle, his eyeballs!) and is it ok to drive a truck at people on bikes? I can't get them to give me a straight answer, just respond with "but the cyclist made a mistake!". Pointless arguing if they won't listen.

Yes, a bunch of cyclists ride like dicks in this video, one of them squeezes in front of the cab. That's a given. But driving like a dick with such a lethal weapon and using "I was technically in the right" is sociopathic. Loads of people will disagree, but you won't convince them because they

ChrisB200SX wrote:

Ramz wrote:

Cat with no tail wrote:

I'm sorry but I just can't understand how anyone who has ever stepped on a bike or driven on the road could suggest this is anything other than the group of cyclists being 100% at fault. Hopefully the guy who nearly got flattened learned his lesson. The gobshite with the camera almost certainly didn't though.

You are probably aware that by law you can't simply say "I have right of way" and crash into someone. Each party is obliged to do what they can to avoid a collision whether they are in the "right" or in the "wrong". I have already 'criticised' both driver and cyclist: I would not have done what either did. I was just questioning why the driver (who was *clearly* aware that there was a bunch of cyclists on his left/just ahead of him) decided to 'barge' through the junction regardless. His attitude afterwards, asserting that he was in the right and had priority (while it may be technically true) actually does not absolve him of his part of the responsibility for a collision. I know there is a tendency for us to try and "blame" one party, and you are correct that if the cyclist hadn't positioned himself there, and behaved in the way that he did, the whole thing could be avoided. My point is about afterwards: if you see someone cycling like a dick, does that give you the right to drive over them?

This is my thinking on this, along with a few others who seem able to see the bigger picture.

It's not a binary blame situation. But most people just don't get it, and they won't, because all they see is the cyclist making a mistake, they ignore everything after that. My friends and girlfriend keep blaming the cyclist and ignore my questions of whose fault is it if the driver cannot see them (his vehicle, his eyeballs!) and is it ok to drive a truck at people on bikes? I can't get them to give me a straight answer, just respond with "but the cyclist made a mistake!". Pointless arguing if they won't listen.

Yes, a bunch of cyclists ride like dicks in this video, one of them squeezes in front of the cab. That's a given. But driving like a dick with such a lethal weapon and using "I was technically in the right" is sociopathic. Loads of people will disagree, but you won't convince them because they

How can the driver be to blame for something that he is basically unaware of? He absolutely didn't "drive his truck at someone" based on the video evidence. He drove in an entirely predictable and sensible way: that is the way you would drive if you didn't know those people were trying to overtake you on the inside (which is absolutely what the cyclists were doing.)

I agree, the fault isn't binary. There is more the truck driver could have done, but as we don't know when or where any or all of the cyclists appeared, it is very difficult to apportion any real blame to the driver. 

Our ability, as a soicety, to use the roading system relies on people acting in a predictable manner. We have rules to try to assist with that. When people act outside of those rules it makes it far far more difficult to predict their behaviour, and may impact seriously on other road users ability to conduct themselves with any degree of safety. 

Something to consider is that by law you have to be able to stop in the clear distance of road ahead. That means that when travelling on the motorway you have to allow 100m distance between you and the vehicle in front at 60 mph. No-one does. We rely on the other road users acting in a predictable manner. When this does go awry, it tends to go awry very badly. In effect, by attributing causative blame to the truck driver you are suggesting the car driver ahead of you should slow down to the speed where your following distance does represent a clear stopping distance. Clearly this is impractical, hence the onus is on each of us individually to be responsible for our own actions, rather than trying to be repsonsible for the actions of those around us.

The truck driver isn't blameless, but his share of the blame for the situation the red guy found himself in is microscopic.

Cat with no tail wrote:

Ramz wrote:

Technically, the cyclist got away from the red light before the lorry driver (albeit behind the other cyclists). The lorry driver struck the cyclist when he attempted to "overtake". If I was the driver I would have definitely "held back" and not overtaken at end of the junction.

*snip*

Putting aside the fact the cyclist shouldn't have been going straight ahead from the left hand turn lane to begin with (so the driver would have had no reason to expect him there in the first place). The cyclist was in his blindspot the whole length of the junction. Either just in front of, or directly at the side of the cab. As far as the driver will have been concerned, he won't have been "overtaking" anything, because he wont have known anything was there. We could argue that's bad truck design, but it's much worse cyclecraft. You can't yeild to something that you don't know is there and shouldn't be there in the first place. 

Completely disagree that both were somewhat foolish. Truck driver did NOTHING wrong there.

As has already been pointed out, if the situation was reversed and the truck had come down that left hand lane, got a head start on the cyclists, then barged them out of the way, everyone would be (quite rightly) incensed and demanding he had his license taken away from him for ever. 

I agree there *should* be an ASL there, but there isn't. So the cyclist shouldn't have been there. What if there was an ASL, but it was full? He'd have still been in the same situation and still been an idiot. 

Using excuses like "everyone else was doing it", "This is London", and "It's poor road design" isn't going to help anyone when he's parked on your face. There is no reason cyclists and trucks can't mix on roads like this, it just requires everyone to pay attention to what they're doing and not drive/ride like complete bellends.

 

I'm sorry but I just can't understand how anyone who has ever stepped on a bike or driven on the road could suggest this is anything other than the group of cyclists being 100% at fault. Hopefully the guy who nearly got flattened learned his lesson. The gobshite with the camera almost certainly didn't though.

 

 

Blind spot. So there is a place down the side of the vehicle that the driver cannot see if he uses his mirrors properly? 

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wingmanrob wrote:

Yup, I'm with the trucker too, ridiculously dangerous cycling. Get in front of the truck at the lights and give him a wave to show you're there whilst it's red. Although I'd sooner stay behind.

Yep. If I'm on point at a light I look back to make sure that the vehicle behind me knows  I know it's back there.  As soon as we're moving again I try to make a little room (if there's only one lane) so it can pass. A little thank you wave doesn't hurt either. A bar or helmet mirror might help as well.  But I'm in a medium sized American Midwest city. Like London, my experiences living in Chicago were closer to your reality.

wingmanrob wrote:

Yup, I'm with the trucker too, ridiculously dangerous cycling. Get in front of the truck at the lights and give him a wave to show you're there whilst it's red. Although I'd sooner stay behind.

Yep. If I'm on point at a light I look back to make sure that the vehicle behind me knows  I know it's back there.  As soon as we're moving again I try to make a little room (if there's only one lane) so it can pass. A little thank you wave doesn't hurt either. A bar or helmet mirror might help as well.  But I'm in a medium sized American Midwest city. Like London, my experiences living in Chicago were closer to your reality.

wingmanrob wrote:

Yup, I'm with the trucker too, ridiculously dangerous cycling. Get in front of the truck at the lights and give him a wave to show you're there whilst it's red. Although I'd sooner stay behind.

Yep. If I'm on point at a light I look back to make sure that the vehicle behind me knows  I know it's back there.  As soon as we're moving again I try to make a little room (if there's only one lane) so it can pass. A little thank you wave doesn't hurt either. A bar or helmet mirror might help as well.  But I'm in a medium sized American Midwest city. Like London, my experiences living in Chicago were closer to your reality.

guyrwood wrote:

Cool, a new sport - Darwinian cycling! I'm 110% with the driver on this one.

Yeah, not actually a sport. It's people trying to get to work. And if natural selection worked the way you think it does you probably wouldn't be here.