Traffic monitoring group slammed after telling cyclists not to ride at night

wycombewheeler wrote:

I know Wales is further west than where I live, but I'm fairly sure people still finish work after sunset in the winter. Are these people suggesting cyclists should be allowed to leave work earlier, because they think it is impossible to keep the roads safe during the hours of darkness?

I've had people working in my office who seem to get far longer and more frequent breaks by virtue (?) of being smokers...  Only seems fair if cyclists can leave early

Someone posted this one recently

Contrast is important !

Essex seem to be back on track

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19319433.watch-safer-essex-roads-par...

“Where digital evidence highlights, Essex Police will not hesitate to take action against those who drive carelessly or dangerous near cyclists and fail to give sufficient space when passing. "

I have had more success recently and one of the ones in the video is very similar to my range rover one that they are doing something about.

I have had more success recently and one of the ones in the video is very similar to my range rover one that they are doing something about

Good news H! I'm glad there has been recovery at Essex Police since the nadir of 'if the cyclist doesn't wobble or brake, the pass wasn't close enough'. I'm beginning to feel really isolated up here in Lancashire, the home of motor-vehicle worshipping backwoods policing where cyclists are viewed as equivalent to the canoeists in 'Deliverance' getting their just desserts, and the police officers are like the 'other' player in Duelling Banjos. Cycling Mikey is doing well in London- he shouts 'you'll get points and a fine' and they do! He'd have a tougher time up here.

Trike riders & unicylists aren't covered by their advice, so . . . there're opportunities to fight back

Trike riders & unicylists aren't covered by their advice

Good point! I missed that loophole for vigilante unicyclists and cavalier Hell's Tricyclist gangs intent on flouting the restrictions- I wonder if Northumbria's restrictions included the same error?

"Bicyclist" is a rather old-fashioned term, according to the Collins Dictionary, for someone who enjoys cycling. So it's alright to cycle at night in South Wales if you're not enjoying it, which you probably won't be with all the dangerous motorists on the roads.

Sriracha wrote:

Amateurish advice bordering on the negligent - they omitted "Avoid riding during the day".

Looking at 2019 and 2020's road fatality statistics we should also add...

• Avoid road-use in January (160 total killed in January 2020)
• Avoid riding a motorcycle or pedal cycle (65 and 18 killed per billion km)
• Avoid walking (22 killed per billion km)

It seems we should only travel by train, which is the safest form of transport (though I'm unsure how to get to the station).

The page is sub-divided,  strangely such that cyclists are bracketed with motor-cyclists, so the advice is a bit of a mish-mash. 

PS Just to confirm, the source is a branch of the Welsh government. 

Whoever wrote these "Top Tips" is struggling with the English Language!

There is also another gem in their Top Tips: "Choose a different day if inclement weather is in the forecast", so they're telling you to leave your bike at home unless the sun is shining. I read somewhere that it rains 270 days a year in parts of Wales, which means that you should practically never ride a bike in Wales, if you follow the official advice.

JN35000 wrote:

"Choose a different day if inclement weather is in the forecast"

makes perfect sense, because cycling is an elective leisure activity. Another reason why cyclists really should not be getting in the way of motorists who are there of necessity! (yes, that was sarcasm - on my part. I assume the advice was given in all sincerity however).

I commute all year round in non-Covid times at least. Are you telling me I should stop cycling for at least a quarter of the year? And where does it say 'if you're a beginner cyclist' on their post, or did you just make that up?

They gave some basic advice for beginners. It's obviously not intended for people who ride regularly, from the nature of the advice.

Dave Dave wrote:

They gave some basic advice for beginners. It's obviously not intended for people who ride regularly, from the nature of the advice.

How do you know it's not aimed at regular riders?

And it's still bollocks, it puts the emphasis on instructing the victim what to do while ignoring the real causes of the vast majority of collisions.

Why shouldn't beginners ride at night? Who tells 'beginner' drivers to avoid driving at night?

IIRC accident stats show cycling at night with lights is safer than cycling during the day (yes, seriously...)

Probably because modern bike lights are so good they get confused for motorbikes etc so you are far less likely to be driven into, combined with less off road cycling (who rides singletrack in the dark (you know the one place helmets actually do something useful...))

qwerty360 wrote:

IIRC accident stats show cycling at night with lights is safer than cycling during the day (yes, seriously...)

 

Probably because modern bike lights are so good they get confused for motorbikes etc so you are far less likely to be driven into, combined with less off road cycling (who rides singletrack in the dark (you know the one place helmets actually do something useful...))

I suspect it has as much to do with roads being less busy, so drivers can overtake properly with no delay. Also it's a bit harder for them to see exactly where you are when they come alongside, so they don't try to prove the skills in the least fag papers (between car and cyclist) challenge 

Lots of things are more dangerous at night - but not because of what the potential victims are doing.

Some activities and groups (cycling, walking, being female, old, being from a minority group, being alone, etc.) are more at risk in daylight too - again not because of their own actions.

Where is the line for putting the responsibility for harm and criminality onto potential victims going about their lawful business?

Dave Dave wrote:

What are people complaining about? It's true. It'd be great if it wasn't true*, but it simply is. Riding at night is significantly more dangerous than in the daytime,

What are you basing that statement on? It is fundamentally impossible to be as visible to cars during the day as you can be at night with good lights and a decent amount of reflective gear. 

Just fuck off back in the hole you crawled out of please.

doesn't feel that way to me, I have far fewer close passes at night. any stats to back that up?  Corrected to remove unlit (ninja) cyclists

Depends what you are trying to do Dave Dave.

The greatest risk to a cyclist is at night, so advise cyclists not to cycle at night - obvious.

The greatest toll of injury to cyclists occurs during the day, so advise cyclists not to cycle during the day either - equally obvious.

The problem with both bits of well meaning advice is that they don't address the cause of injury to cyclists, they simply eliminate cycling. That only makes sense if cycling were an activity we were seeking to eliminate or even reduce - it isn't. Motoring, however...

So really, the advice should be to motorists, "Don't risk the life of a cyclist, avoid driving at night."

Have you got some statistics to back up this statement that night time is more dangerous?

In this French study, 79% of fatal cycle accidents happened during the day: https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2019-03/... (there's a nice graphic on page 7 which is easily understandable even if you don't know French). Of course, this wouldn't prove that daytime cycling is more dangerous because more than 79% of cycle journeys might be made in daytime. However, looking at the table shows that peak times for deaths seem to coincide with peak times for motor vehicule traffic.

To be fair, the advice to drivers is pretty decent, although what happened to point 6 - I think we should be told.