Rapha not happy with Torm

How many WorldTour teams are wearing assos this year?

Just askin'

'Rapha slightly miffed by Torm' doesn't do it either. No one sends a 'cease-and-desist' letter on a friendly basis or without first considering the final consequences for both sides. If it gets to court and Rapha lose this they'll also lose a big chunk of their 'kudos' (I was going to write credibility, but I've never seen the words 'Rapha' and 'credibility' used in the same sentence before). I guess they must be pretty confident that they're on the right track, but I hope they're wrong.

CLX1 wrote:

I'm 55, not well off and ride an Enigma before you start with the incorrect stereotypes.

If you dress in Rapha and ride an Enigma it's unlikely you are short of a penny. It's your money, you are of course entitled to buy whatever brand you wish and not feel guilty about it.

Lots of people seem to think they are not well off, but that's because they only compare themselves with others wealthier than themselves.

Everyone has a view on this and the two sides aren't likely to agree. If Torm is found to be too close a copy to tolerate I hope both parties can find a way to continue operating. I have enough cycling jerseys already, though perhaps just one more wouldn't hurt

How do you know it was a cease and desist letter? Doesn't sound like that to me. Just been on the Torm site and ironically about the only product you can buy is the arm warmers that Rapha are supposedly miffed about…

Y'know I reckon they've just sold out of everything else buoyed up on a wave of hype that they're about to be put out of business by the brutes at Rapha, and the fact that they are shockingly good value/cheap.

Thanks Ian it does sound like I've been mis-informed doesn't it - ah well, bit of egg on my face will probably do my complexion the world of good.

From what I now understand Rapha and Torm are talking to each other about all this and those conversations do have a legal dimension to them. One way or another I'm sure we'll find out the result soon enough. In the meantime us speculating on who's doing what to whom is probably not all that productive - so we should probably all knock it on the head for the time being.

Mind you, I'm sure the opportunity to discuss the relative merits of Rapha and Torm will present itself soon enough.

Peace in our time. Sounds like this spat is finally over. Torm have announced a sale to clear their current stock, and they've revealed revised design details. Looks mighty fine to me

And yet the most blatant copy, their arm warmers, remain unchanged?

Wouldn't want to wear that middle one anywhere near a Spurs-supporting White Van Man

I have to say that while I wouldn't have purchased Torm before any more than I'd purcase an 'Georgina Armoni' tshirt the new kit looks good and I'm tempted. Certainly you can see where the inspiration comes from but seems its no longer a copycat.

"He thought we were wearing Rapha!!"
laughed the boys on their Colnoga bikes

..and just to add fuel to the fire...the cost of Torm is now less than it was before....(albeit short term)

@ TheHatter...very good..made me smile/laugh as much as the 'Colnoga riding 'raph@ wearing boys' in the pic...

So so tempting

Well, I bagged one of the red long sleeve ones and very pleased with it I must say, and at such a great price!

Like the look of the new designs as well and will be getting more when funds are better.

Really pleased that they are back trading again and feel that they will be a better and stronger company for it.

What? You're not allowed to make a first post - you have to jump straight to number 2?
How?
Overall I'm glad the whole Torm v' Rapha thing is all sorted now. Perhaps they can now concentrate on making an XXL top

Nah, stoning's too good for him.

On LFGSS he'd have his testicles tied around NJS bars, to which Chris King headsets are then added one by one until... well you either lose them outright or you need a different sort of top-tube protector.

Of course we can only look on and admire such high standards.

V funny post by TheHatter of the Colnoga riders.
I wonder what Torm were thinking in making items so similar to Rapha's.
They are almost damaging their own brand by appearing as Rapha knock-offs rather then a legit sportwool jersey brand. Like producing Burberry-ish check shirts, or polo shirts with the croc facing the wrong way.

If they can sell these shirts at a great prices (cheaper than many other manufacturers besides Rapha) then good luck to them (i've bought 2 plain jerseys from them) but there's no need to put out the designs that ape Rapha so closely.

I like Sportwool... I like Sportwool a lot.

I have 4 Torm jerseys, 2 colomba and a Shutt VR. I have, and always will have absolutely no Rapha in my jersey drawer. I detest the elitist uber-trendyism of the brand. The recent bullying of Torm has done nothing for their image in my eyes, and has even made Torm more attractive to me!

As for the marketing of Sportwool Jerseys, its an obvious rip-off of the real cyclists over at Team JVA http://internationale.teamjva.com/

Interestingly, of the Sportwool jerseys I do have, I have found an inverse relationship between quality (or at least my preference)and cost. I love the Torm gear for summer or layered up for other seasons and their sizing is perfect. Colomba stuff is great in slightly cooler weather, but limited in range... and the colour leaches a bit. With all respect to the guys at Shutt, I was hugely disappointed by their stuff... Big fat seams, weird cut/sizing and seemingly less breathable than the offerings from either Torm or Colomba. Of the the 7 Sportwool jerseys i have, the shutt is the least likely tosee daylight. Obviously, I can't compare Rapha, but I don't feel the need to.

Duplicate post removed.

Rapha certainly looks lovely, but when far superior technical apparel is available for far less I know what I'd go for.
Perhaps when I'm even older, and I start admiring myself in shop windows, and ride so slow I can drop my Giro for a cotton cap and need something to keep me warm whilst Tweeting with one hand and sipping expressos in a street front café I'll don some Rapha.
So really good looking stuff, but mental pricing.

At the risk of stretching out a 6-month old thread even more, I thought I'd add my two pence to the whole Rapha debate. Threads about Rapha are like an institution on bike forums - the LFGSS one is now 114 pages long! - none of which can hurt Rapha in any case, as it's much better to have a brand which is as divisive as it is than one which creates a feeling of apathy.

In regards to the Rapha/Torm dispute - it seems pretty childish and certainly exceptionally niave to throw words like "bullying" around. There isn't a (successful) business around who wouldn't have acted in exactly the same way if a competitor began producing items extremely similar to their own. To do anything else would be commercial suicide. I noted a few sarcastic comments at the time but I didn't see pages and pages of forum debate when Assos stopped Asos from trading in Switzerland under their name; arguably a decision far harder to understand in legal terms as the chances of someone accidentally coming across the Asos site and buying what they believed to be a high-end jersey which actually turned out to be a Ben Sherman polo shirt seems unlikely.

Likewise the branding of Rapha will obviously not appeal to all, but to single them out as "all about the brand" is laughable given that most other companies push lifestyles for people to buy into alongside their product. For Rapha it's arty shots of cyclists, for Assos it's ladies in bib shorts. And though you'd think Rapha is so expensive if you actually compare it to other similarly placed brands it simply isn't - buy a ShuttVR jersey, a pair of arm warmers, cap and socks and the difference is £10 to what you'd pay for the Rapha classics pack with the same items, but I haven't seen a single post in which someone shouts about how overpriced they are.

The irony is that in most of these threads about Rapha the most vocal detractors - the whole "all the gear/no idea" thing for example - is basically an inverse snobbery. If you wear x and ride y then you are xy and you can't be in our club. It's just as elitist to make the decision as to who can be considered a "proper cyclist" based on what they wear/ride. For the record I ride a fairly modest Allez 16, but I certainly don't begrudge those who have the money to buy Cervelos or Colnagos regardless of their ability.

Anyway... just my thoughts. Also - nice to see a discussion about this which hasn't descended into knuckle-dragging homophobia as on certain other bike forums. Though I don't post often it's one of the reasons I like Road.cc so much!

You mention inverse snobbery. I honestly think that inverse snobbery has almost been a rule in cycling since day one.
Though I would have thought that came from older riders, the poker faced ones that like to keep their tallent and intentions well hidden, not younger riders.
I fall into the older rider camp myself, but my own issues aren't only with Rapha. I won't wear any clothing that blatantly advertizes it's manufacturer. The exception being clothing supplied by the bike manufacturer or other business that would be supporting me.
Currently I only wear club kit.
But as I said that Rapha is beautiful kit, and I think everyone who produces kit anything like raphas is a pale immitation.

My turn to make massive generalisations now, but I do notice that whenever I go out riding it's always the old guys in club gear who wave and say hello. I generally get either blank or icy stares from the guys wearing full Saxo Bank kit or something similar.

When I am brave enough (and I'm well aware how pathetic that sounds, I just don't consider myself able enough yet and have never ridden with others am kind of a bit scared by it) I'm hoping to join a local club - I like the idea of having kit which means something, rather than something corporate (whatever the status or size of the manufacturer)!

I don't think Rapha are quite over it - this is a genuine question on their current questionairre (albeit a little tongue in cheek)

59. A new cycle clothing brand appears in your favourite cycling magazine/ website selling jerseys made from a merino wool blend and featuring a familiar three rear pocket configuration and contrast armband styling. When you visit their website you find the experience poor but the jerseys are a bit cheaper than Rapha's. Do you:

Buy one because everyone is wearing Rapha these days and you think these are going to be the next big thing.

Buy one because no-one will know that it isn't a Rapha jersey, but will probably think it is.

Buy one because you read a review that says it is nearly as good as a Rapha jersey but is cheaper.

Don't buy one because Rapha is the original and best merino jersey. Of course.

Don't buy one because the website experience doesn't inspire confidence.

Don't buy one because you doubt their customer service can compare with Rapha's.

Don't buy one because you have found a Rapha discount code and would rather go with a more well known brand.

Buy one and burn it. Post video to YouTube.

Other (please specify)
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In the words of Vic and Bob 'You wouldn't let it lie'.