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Driver Jailed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-56660341

Pleased to see this driver jailed for causing death by dangerous driving and for leaving the scene of the accident. Two questions:

Would the outcome have been different if the victim had been riding a bike?

Would the outcome have been different if the driver had been white?

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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9 comments

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AlsoSomniloquism | 3 years ago
2 likes

It is a tough one. In most cases the CPS would have accepted the plea for Careless as they don't normally expect to get Dangerous Driving convicted by a jury, (especially against Cyclists for some strange reason which might be due to all the shitcase stories made up by the DM and others). 

In this case they decided Dangerous Driving would have a chance and I do wonder if it was a combination of the amount of evidence, that is was a pedestrian AND the profiles of the victim and the driver. However as Recovery mentioned, there are just too many variables really to fully compare cases but as he was done for Death / Dangerous Driving AND failure to stop, the actual sentence is low compared to the top end it could have been. However that could be because the Judge might have decided some of the responsibility was down to someone crossing the road against a red light and not looking or listening. 

As an aside on whether it might be the colour of the skin, there is people commenting in the Chronical called ProudWhite and other responses have been removed so some might be suggesting the colour might have helped him get off etc. 

I expect those same gammons would be posting Anti Cyclist stuff if shown links to "our" list of similar incidents. 

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Recoveryride | 3 years ago
1 like

One would hope that the sentence would not change based on the victim's mode of transport and the offender's race, but given that every case is unique, every judge appears to interpret the law and sentencing guidelines differently, who knows, in all honesty?

IMO, as soon as a driver kills or seriously injures someone (cyclist, pedestrian, other driver)  through poor, careless or drunk driving, the legal starting point should be a jail sentence equivalent to a manslaughter/GBH charge, and the onus should be on the defence to prove that isn't appropriate. 

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kil0ran | 3 years ago
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Compare with this one - white driver, two separate incidents, 3 years.

https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/news/thames-valley/news/2021/april/05...

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HoarseMann | 3 years ago
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Some more details in The Chronicle.

There was evidence that he had been using his mobile phone when driving shortly before the collision, but they couldn't prove he was using it at the time of the collision. I think there needs to be a rethink about how this is dealt with, as it's very difficult to prove timings. Use of a phone shortly before an incident ought to be deemed to be a contributary factor by default - with the burden to prove otherwise on the defendant.

As for if they had been a cyclist - well, the victim crossed the road without looking and against a red pedestrian crossing light whilst wearing headphones. I have no doubt that if they had been on a bike, he would have got away without a prison term - despite the severe lack of attention and excessive speed.

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Sriracha replied to HoarseMann | 3 years ago
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HoarseMann wrote:

As for if they had been a cyclist - well, the victim crossed the road without looking and against a red pedestrian crossing light whilst wearing headphones

The sentencing, who knows? However, I'm pretty sure the BBC reporting would not have omitted those details had the victim been a cyclist.

I can hear the words now, "A cyclist who jumped a red light was tragically killed by a car. A witness said the cyclist probably failed to hear the car approaching as they were wearing headphones. Another witness said the cyclist had no helmet or hi-viz, so the driver never really stood a chance".

Deepest condolences to the family of this young woman whose life was so cruelly taken from them.

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the little onion | 3 years ago
3 likes

Yes to the first question, probably not to the second. 

 

A thirty month sentence for a speeding fatal hit and run on a pedestrian is far greater than many sentences for the equivalent where the victim is a cyclist. As reported here far too many times

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Captain Badger replied to the little onion | 3 years ago
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the little onion wrote:

Yes to the first question, probably not to the second. 

 

A thirty month sentence for a speeding fatal hit and run on a pedestrian is far greater than many sentences for the equivalent where the victim is a cyclist. As reported here far too many times

I'd agree with your summation, however I'd like to see the second part verified. There is a difference in conviction and sentencing along race line when considered across all crime - I wonder whether it holds for driving offences.

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Awavey replied to the little onion | 3 years ago
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You have to be careful to draw too many conclusions on the sentencing part as a comparator, as the biggest component of that 30months will be the driver leaving the scene & leaving the pedestrian with injuries that resulted in death, not the speeding & hitting the pedestrian in the first place bit, had they stayed at the scene they wouldnt have got 30months imo.

There was a case a few years back I remember locally where a cyclist was knocked off their bike, and the driver didnt stop,somehow the police tracked him down via CCTV and he got a 5months jail sentence just on a careless driving charge,because he failed to stop and the cyclist was left injured requiring hospital treatment.

On the second part I dont know, but the jury couldnt decide on a dangerous driving charge which doesnt seem to confirm any bias was there bar the usual automobile ones, and it's the judge who decides the sentencing

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iandusud replied to Awavey | 3 years ago
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