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Half of drivers unaware of Highway Code advice on passing cyclists

DfT announces that driving instructors are to be given bespoke training on cycle safety

More than half of British drivers are not aware of Highway Code advice for safely passing cyclists, according to a survey carried out for Cycling UK. Eight per cent said that drivers should only give cyclists space that is at least the width of their handlebars.

The ComRes survey of 2,039 British adults found that 52 per cent of motorists weren’t aware that the Highway Code recommendation is to give cyclists at least as much space as you would a car when overtaking.

Duncan Dollimore, Head of Campaigns at Cycling UK, said: “These figures show most close passes come from a position of ignorance rather than malicious intent.”

Government needs to change Highway Code rules on overtaking cyclists and car dooring says Cycling UK

The data was released as the Department for Transport (Dft) announces that driving instructors are to be offered bespoke training on cycle safety.

Speaking at the Cycle City Active City conference in Manchester today, Transport Minister Jesse Norman will say: “The benefits of cycling and walking are enormous. We shouldn’t only concentrate on catching and punishing drivers when they make a mistake but try to ensure that they have the skills and knowledge to drive safely alongside cyclists in all conditions.”

Dollimore said: “Cycling UK has long argued that the driver training and testing processes should ensure that drivers are made aware of and understand both cyclists’ needs and their safety. Training the trainers, and embedding cyclists’ safety in the mindset of driving instructors, is a fantastic first step towards achieving this.

“But education and awareness on its own is not enough, which is why close pass operations by police forces have proved so effective in places like the West Midlands.”

As part of today’s announcement, the DfT also says that police forces are to be provided with training materials and support to educate drivers on how to safely pass cyclists.

“It’s fantastic that there’s now a commitment to make additional government resources available to help the police crackdown on close passing,” said Dollimore. “Cycling UK looks forward to working with the Department for Transport, as we have with willing police forces, to try to make sure this initiative helps lead to close pass policing being the norm, not the exception.” 

In July 2017, Cycling UK launched its Too Close for Comfort campaign. Following a crowdfunding initiative, it has so far provided 38 out of 45 police forces across the UK with close pass mats with which to conduct public awareness campaigns and road traffic operations.

The close pass mats are modelled on those used in West Midlands Traffic Police’s pioneering road safety operation ‘Give Space, Be Safe’.

The operation resulted in a 50 per cent reduction in reported close pass offences in its first three months. The force also reported a 20 per cent reduction in casualties among vulnerable road users over the course of a year when national road casualty figures had shown an increase.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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48 comments

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Mr Blissta | 5 years ago
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Are motorists going to get their imaginary rulers out for each pass on a cyclist? Giving a measurement is dumb. The rule should simply be: use the other side of the road (defined by the white lines down the middle!).

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hawkinspeter replied to Mr Blissta | 5 years ago
2 likes

Mr Blissta wrote:

Are motorists going to get their imaginary rulers out for each pass on a cyclist? Giving a measurement is dumb. The rule should simply be: use the other side of the road (defined by the white lines down the middle!).

If a motorist can't judge a simple distance without a ruler, then they shouldn't be driving. Do they need their ruler for stopping distances too?

Using "the other side of the road" would be nice except for all the exceptions (e.g. one way roads) and I think it would lead to more confusion.

The advantage of specifying a minimum distance is clarity - everone knows what 1.5m is.

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PRSboy replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

Mr Blissta wrote:

Are motorists going to get their imaginary rulers out for each pass on a cyclist? Giving a measurement is dumb. The rule should simply be: use the other side of the road (defined by the white lines down the middle!).

If a motorist can't judge a simple distance without a ruler, then they shouldn't be driving. Do they need their ruler for stopping distances too?

Using "the other side of the road" would be nice except for all the exceptions (e.g. one way roads) and I think it would lead to more confusion.

The advantage of specifying a minimum distance is clarity - everone knows what 1.5m is.

 

To your ruler point- frankly many drivers haven't a clue what their stopping distances are either!  Actually they do have those chevrons on short sections of motorways to show recommended separation between cars.  Maybe they could start painting those on roads to show the recommended gap between car and cyclist. 

My rule of thumb in a car is always to give enough room so that if the cyclist fell off sideways as I passed, I would avoid them.  If there was not enough room to do this on a narrow road, then I slow down to pass at a speed at which I could stop if necessary.

A minimum distance of 1.5m would at least give a quantifiable threshold for prosecution if a complaint is raised.

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brooksby | 5 years ago
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I wish we could set up a poll: how many road.cc people have ever been overtaken by any other road user with a separation at the distance shown in the photo at the top of the article?  Ever??

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hawkinspeter replied to brooksby | 5 years ago
0 likes

brooksby wrote:

I wish we could set up a poll: how many road.cc people have ever been overtaken by any other road user with a separation at the distance shown in the photo at the top of the article?  Ever??

My guesstimate is about 50% of overtakes are at that distance or even greater. It also depends on the road as overtakes in and around cities tend to be a lot closer than on less congested roads. I've got no stats to back that up, though and usually people only remember the bad overtakes.

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OldRidgeback replied to brooksby | 5 years ago
0 likes

brooksby wrote:

I wish we could set up a poll: how many road.cc people have ever been overtaken by any other road user with a separation at the distance shown in the photo at the top of the article?  Ever??

Odlly enough, I went out for an amble on my bike on Saturday in S London and was pleasantly surprised to note that not one single driver failed to overtake with an acceptable degree of respect and caution.

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fukawitribe replied to brooksby | 5 years ago
0 likes

brooksby wrote:

I wish we could set up a poll: how many road.cc people have ever been overtaken by any other road user with a separation at the distance shown in the photo at the top of the article?  Ever??

Loads of times - town and country - and i'm in the same neck of the woods as you. A decent group of passes are nearer but still not at all worrying due to relative speed or other conditions. Rarely get a really shitty pass, more pull-outs than those, but then again I hardly ever go through the city centre and tend to not bother with busy urban roads where it makes sense / have another, nicer route even when I commute.

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don simon fbpe | 5 years ago
1 like

How's the hangover, I will assume that you were pissed. And yes, apology accepted.

Interestingly, you're not, are you?

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WiznaeMe | 5 years ago
2 likes

Last December the driving test manoeuvres in the UK changed.  Stopping on the right was (controversially) introduced, which is why people now see Approved Driving Instructors teaching this.  Many ADI’s strongly disagreed with this decision however the DVSA took advice from the Association of Chief Police Officers who agreed that it was not an illegal act during daytime.  (Tests only occur during daytime). DVSA also released information on a H&S audit on the manoeuvre to support it’s introduction.

I neither support it nor oppose it.

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kie7077 | 5 years ago
1 like

1. "give cyclists at least as much space as you would a car" is not good enough and needs changing. some drivers would happily give another car inches.

2. "driving instructors are to be offered bespoke training" This is also not good enough, tell them they have training they need to take, or they will have their training license removed.

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wycombewheeler replied to kie7077 | 5 years ago
1 like

kie7077 wrote:

1. "give cyclists at least as much space as you would a car" is not good enough and needs changing. some drivers would happily give another car inches.

2. "driving instructors are to be offered bespoke training" This is also not good enough, tell them they have training they need to take, or they will have their training license removed.

give as much room, not pass as close to, a car does not fit in inches, not sure if you are misinterpreting the rules, or suggesting that drivers all misinterpret them as they are not clear.

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mdavidford replied to wycombewheeler | 5 years ago
0 likes
wycombewheeler wrote:

kie7077 wrote:

1. "give cyclists at least as much space as you would a car" is not good enough and needs changing. some drivers would happily give another car inches.

2. "driving instructors are to be offered bespoke training" This is also not good enough, tell them they have training they need to take, or they will have their training license removed.

give as much room, not pass as close to, a car does not fit in inches, not sure if you are misinterpreting the rules, or suggesting that drivers all misinterpret them as they are not clear.

The problem is that the rule is ambiguous - when you 'give room', is the room that you are giving that between you and the other road user, or is it all of that available to the left of you for the other road user to occupy? Someone who interprets it as the former would leave a lot less space than someone who assumes the latter, and it's not clear which was intended when it was written.

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hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
2 likes

I appreciate the thinking behind the advanced drivers use of indicators, but it's really poorly thought out. If you only indicate when you can see the "target" of your indicating then you are going to be compounding any situation where you don't happen to see the other road user or pedestrian. However, if you mindlessly indicate whenever you make a maneouvre, then I can't think of any situation where that actually causes a problem.

Unfortunately, it's all too common to see cars pull out of parking spaces or side roads without indicating and the perps never look like advanced drivers to me, otherwise wouldn't they have recognised the possibility that traffic could approach unseen and thus need the warning that a vehicle is about to perform a maneouvre? Don't even get me started on people's observation skills and the number of drivers that don't spot cyclists and thus don't indicate for their benefit.

Another situation where drivers may not indicate is when there's 2 lines of slow moving/stationary traffic and a vehicle changes lanes. Most of the time, they wouldn't be able to see a cyclist filtering between the lines yet the only advanced clue that the cyclist would get would be the indicators.

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BehindTheBikesheds replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

I appreciate the thinking behind the advanced drivers use of indicators, but it's really poorly thought out. If you only indicate when you can see the "target" of your indicating then you are going to be compounding any situation where you don't happen to see the other road user or pedestrian. However, if you mindlessly indicate whenever you make a maneouvre, then I can't think of any situation where that actually causes a problem.

Unfortunately, it's all too common to see cars pull out of parking spaces or side roads without indicating and the perps never look like advanced drivers to me, otherwise wouldn't they have recognised the possibility that traffic could approach unseen and thus need the warning that a vehicle is about to perform a maneouvre? Don't even get me started on people's observation skills and the number of drivers that don't spot cyclists and thus don't indicate for their benefit.

Another situation where drivers may not indicate is when there's 2 lines of slow moving/stationary traffic and a vehicle changes lanes. Most of the time, they wouldn't be able to see a cyclist filtering between the lines yet the only advanced clue that the cyclist would get would be the indicators.

That's not what has been said, read again what actually has been said, indicate IF someone else in the vicinity will benefit from an indication. You assess where there might be people you could reasonably expect to appear from, a blind junction for instance, an overgrown hedge, possibly even dark shadow. That's why I said it's about making you think about the why, you're not just assessing the overtake but those around you and possibilities of those that might come into play. There are many circumstances where indicating is utterly futile and wasteful, it shows lack of thinking/assessment on the part of those that do it 'automatically'. That automatic/little thinking driving gets replicated all the time and people get into bad habits/stop thinking enough about each and every manoeuvre they take whilst behind the wheel of a killing machine. This is in part why we have over a million crashes/180,000+ injuries on the road every year in the supposed third best country in the world. Driving is reduced to moronic levels and even those with the best intentions fail to grasp why they do x all the time and from that mistakes are made.

If you aren't assessing your driving and why you do stuff all the time then you aren't doing it right.

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hawkinspeter replied to BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
1 like

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I appreciate the thinking behind the advanced drivers use of indicators, but it's really poorly thought out. If you only indicate when you can see the "target" of your indicating then you are going to be compounding any situation where you don't happen to see the other road user or pedestrian. However, if you mindlessly indicate whenever you make a maneouvre, then I can't think of any situation where that actually causes a problem.

Unfortunately, it's all too common to see cars pull out of parking spaces or side roads without indicating and the perps never look like advanced drivers to me, otherwise wouldn't they have recognised the possibility that traffic could approach unseen and thus need the warning that a vehicle is about to perform a maneouvre? Don't even get me started on people's observation skills and the number of drivers that don't spot cyclists and thus don't indicate for their benefit.

Another situation where drivers may not indicate is when there's 2 lines of slow moving/stationary traffic and a vehicle changes lanes. Most of the time, they wouldn't be able to see a cyclist filtering between the lines yet the only advanced clue that the cyclist would get would be the indicators.

That's not what has been said, read again what actually has been said, indicate IF someone else in the vicinity will benefit from an indication. You assess where there might be people you could reasonably expect to appear from, a blind junction for instance, an overgrown hedge, possibly even dark shadow. That's why I said it's about making you think about the why, you're not just assessing the overtake but those around you and possibilities of those that might come into play. There are many circumstances where indicating is utterly futile and wasteful, it shows lack of thinking/assessment on the part of those that do it 'automatically'. That automatic/little thinking driving gets replicated all the time and people get into bad habits/stop thinking enough about each and every manoeuvre they take whilst behind the wheel of a killing machine. This is in part why we have over a million crashes/180,000+ injuries on the road every year in the supposed third best country in the world. Driving is reduced to moronic levels and even those with the best intentions fail to grasp why they do x all the time and from that mistakes are made.

If you aren't assessing your driving and why you do stuff all the time then you aren't doing it right.

Okay - that's a fair point about indicating for a possible target and that does mitigate some of my concerns.

However, it's the failure mode that worries me. If you make a mistake in judgement and decide not to indicate when there is a hidden cyclist then you compound the mistake in a dangerous fashion. If instead, you mistakenly indicate when there's no-one around who cares, then you've just wasted a tiny bit of effort.

I certainly agree with the continual self-assessment/improvement aspect of driving/cycling and the idea of being mindfull/aware as lack of awareness is probably the biggest driving mistake. It's interesting to get the reasoning behind the advanced driving tuition even though I've never got around to learning to drive as I see it just from the cyclsts' point of view. Personally, I'm not concerned about drivers indicating when overtaking so much as it's usually easy to tell from the sound of a vehicle that it's about to overtake (and also I'd have to look behind/use a mirror to see the indicator).

The big problem for me is drivers pulling out or turning without indicating and the idea that drivers dont have to indicate for pedestrians (I'm not saying that you're pushing that idea) really bugs me. On my bike, I always make an effort to indicate (stick out a hand) when it could be useful for a pedestrian and, following my own advice, sometimes do it when noone's around.

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madcarew replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I appreciate the thinking behind the advanced drivers use of indicators, but it's really poorly thought out. If you only indicate when you can see the "target" of your indicating then you are going to be compounding any situation where you don't happen to see the other road user or pedestrian. However, if you mindlessly indicate whenever you make a maneouvre, then I can't think of any situation where that actually causes a problem.

Unfortunately, it's all too common to see cars pull out of parking spaces or side roads without indicating and the perps never look like advanced drivers to me, otherwise wouldn't they have recognised the possibility that traffic could approach unseen and thus need the warning that a vehicle is about to perform a maneouvre? Don't even get me started on people's observation skills and the number of drivers that don't spot cyclists and thus don't indicate for their benefit.

Another situation where drivers may not indicate is when there's 2 lines of slow moving/stationary traffic and a vehicle changes lanes. Most of the time, they wouldn't be able to see a cyclist filtering between the lines yet the only advanced clue that the cyclist would get would be the indicators.

That's not what has been said, read again what actually has been said, indicate IF someone else in the vicinity will benefit from an indication. You assess where there might be people you could reasonably expect to appear from, a blind junction for instance, an overgrown hedge, possibly even dark shadow. That's why I said it's about making you think about the why, you're not just assessing the overtake but those around you and possibilities of those that might come into play. There are many circumstances where indicating is utterly futile and wasteful, it shows lack of thinking/assessment on the part of those that do it 'automatically'. That automatic/little thinking driving gets replicated all the time and people get into bad habits/stop thinking enough about each and every manoeuvre they take whilst behind the wheel of a killing machine. This is in part why we have over a million crashes/180,000+ injuries on the road every year in the supposed third best country in the world. Driving is reduced to moronic levels and even those with the best intentions fail to grasp why they do x all the time and from that mistakes are made.

If you aren't assessing your driving and why you do stuff all the time then you aren't doing it right.

Okay - that's a fair point about indicating for a possible target and that does mitigate some of my concerns.

However, it's the failure mode that worries me. If you make a mistake in judgement and decide not to indicate when there is a hidden cyclist then you compound the mistake in a dangerous fashion. If instead, you mistakenly indicate when there's no-one around who cares, then you've just wasted a tiny bit of effort.

I certainly agree with the continual self-assessment/improvement aspect of driving/cycling and the idea of being mindfull/aware as lack of awareness is probably the biggest driving mistake. It's interesting to get the reasoning behind the advanced driving tuition even though I've never got around to learning to drive as I see it just from the cyclsts' point of view. Personally, I'm not concerned about drivers indicating when overtaking so much as it's usually easy to tell from the sound of a vehicle that it's about to overtake (and also I'd have to look behind/use a mirror to see the indicator).

The big problem for me is drivers pulling out or turning without indicating and the idea that drivers dont have to indicate for pedestrians (I'm not saying that you're pushing that idea) really bugs me. On my bike, I always make an effort to indicate (stick out a hand) when it could be useful for a pedestrian and, following my own advice, sometimes do it when noone's around.

Unfortunately BTBS is convinced of his own infallibility. He's absolutely certain that every time he looks carefully he will see everything he needs to see. This is categorically, neurologically, physiologically, and logically utterly indefensible. He is trying to make out that an intense effort that has catastrophic costs if it fails is somehow a superior strategy to a simple habit that has no cost if it is unnecessary. The silly thing is, the good  driver will do all of his things, and still indicate because they recognise their own fallibilty, and that it is a superior, safer strategy. . 

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to madcarew | 5 years ago
1 like

madcarew wrote:

Unfortunately BTBS is convinced of his own infallibility. He's absolutely certain that every time he looks carefully he will see everything he needs to see. This is categorically, neurologically, physiologically, and logically utterly indefensible. He is trying to make out that an intense effort that has catastrophic costs if it fails is somehow a superior strategy to a simple habit that has no cost if it is unnecessary. The silly thing is, the good  driver will do all of his things, and still indicate because they recognise their own fallibilty, and that it is a superior, safer strategy. . 

I'm more interested in why driving instructors (advanced or not) are teaching the "optional" indicating philosophy rather than any one person's driving ability/safety. BTBS is not the only person who has been taught this method, so I'm wondering why this is so.

If a driver does a good job of considering all relevant blind spots, then their behaviour becomes indistinguishable from a driver that habitually indicates.

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davel replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Unfortunately BTBS is convinced of his own infallibility. He's absolutely certain that every time he looks carefully he will see everything he needs to see. This is categorically, neurologically, physiologically, and logically utterly indefensible. He is trying to make out that an intense effort that has catastrophic costs if it fails is somehow a superior strategy to a simple habit that has no cost if it is unnecessary. The silly thing is, the good  driver will do all of his things, and still indicate because they recognise their own fallibilty, and that it is a superior, safer strategy. . 

I'm more interested in why driving instructors (advanced or not) are teaching the "optional" indicating philosophy rather than any one person's driving ability/safety. BTBS is not the only person who has been taught this method, so I'm wondering why this is so.

If a driver does a good job of considering all relevant blind spots, then their behaviour becomes indistinguishable from a driver that habitually indicates.

In my case, the driving instructor explained it as careful observation and then not indicating was prefereable to careful observation and indicating for the sake of it because the latter could just be habitual, without the careful observation bit.

I totally disagreed with him over that interpretation and the assumption of careful observation, we had a brief debate about what was more useful in The Real World vs impressing an examiner, then another about omniscience, and then I signalled all the time just to piss him off.

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hawkinspeter replied to davel | 5 years ago
2 likes

davel wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Unfortunately BTBS is convinced of his own infallibility. He's absolutely certain that every time he looks carefully he will see everything he needs to see. This is categorically, neurologically, physiologically, and logically utterly indefensible. He is trying to make out that an intense effort that has catastrophic costs if it fails is somehow a superior strategy to a simple habit that has no cost if it is unnecessary. The silly thing is, the good  driver will do all of his things, and still indicate because they recognise their own fallibilty, and that it is a superior, safer strategy. . 

I'm more interested in why driving instructors (advanced or not) are teaching the "optional" indicating philosophy rather than any one person's driving ability/safety. BTBS is not the only person who has been taught this method, so I'm wondering why this is so.

If a driver does a good job of considering all relevant blind spots, then their behaviour becomes indistinguishable from a driver that habitually indicates.

In my case, the driving instructor explained it as careful observation and then not indicating was prefereable to careful observation and indicating for the sake of it because the latter could just be habitual, without the careful observation bit.

I totally disagreed with him over that interpretation and the assumption of careful observation, we had a brief debate about what was more useful in The Real World vs impressing an examiner, then another about omniscience, and then I signalled all the time just to piss him off.

"Careful observation" is one of those things that can cover any idealised situation (e.g. you should have spotted from the direction of the wheels of a parked car that it may suddenly pull out) but realistically human observation has a number of known weaknesses (despite mitigations).

As long as someone is paying attention on the road, then most incidents can be avoided, so it's the inattentive people that need to improve their skills. Inattentive and indicating is not ideal but is much better than inattentive and not indicating.

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wycombewheeler replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
3 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

I appreciate the thinking behind the advanced drivers use of indicators, but it's really poorly thought out. If you only indicate when you can see the "target" of your indicating then you are going to be compounding any situation where you don't happen to see the other road user or pedestrian. However, if you mindlessly indicate whenever you make a maneouvre, then I can't think of any situation where that actually causes a problem.

Unfortunately, it's all too common to see cars pull out of parking spaces or side roads without indicating and the perps never look like advanced drivers to me, otherwise wouldn't they have recognised the possibility that traffic could approach unseen and thus need the warning that a vehicle is about to perform a maneouvre? Don't even get me started on people's observation skills and the number of drivers that don't spot cyclists and thus don't indicate for their benefit.

Another situation where drivers may not indicate is when there's 2 lines of slow moving/stationary traffic and a vehicle changes lanes. Most of the time, they wouldn't be able to see a cyclist filtering between the lines yet the only advanced clue that the cyclist would get would be the indicators.

or when turning into a side road, even though indicating would inform pedestrians intending to cross what the driver is intending, especially key as the majority of drivers are unaware they should give way to pedestrians crossing side roads when they are turning into them.

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ktache | 5 years ago
2 likes

I hope not  annoy anyone or actually join in the getting shouty arguement, but this thread is about the Highway Code and-

Rule 239

...If you have to stop on the roadside:

  do not park facing against the traffic flow

Now it's not a MUST or a SHOULD but it is in there.

 

 

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ChrisB200SX | 5 years ago
0 likes

Parking facing one way or the other makes no difference to anything, unless it's on a one-way street. Making drivers do a u-turn or whatever to park in the direction of travel for that side of the road would probably be more dangerous.
I sometimes probably don't signal when overtaking a cyclist if there's no-one else to see me signalling. A cyclist shouldn't really need to be aware that you're about to overtake if you're doing it appropriately.

Also, if you encounter a learner driver, probably a good idea to anticipate that they might make errors, after all, they haven't passed their test yet. Could be their first lesson, could be Maureen from Driving School. Obviously, some things shouldn't be allowed to get out of control though.

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don simon fbpe | 5 years ago
1 like

Well you've gone and asked and answered all the question for me. I guess there's nothing for me to do. I've even changed the argument from consistency in direction into safety in your last post...

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a1white | 5 years ago
1 like

What I don't understand, is why should motorists be suprised by this rule? Surely if you are passing a a more vunerable road user, you'd think common sense would tell you that you should give them as much room as possible. Why would you just give a a few inches if you have a whole lane you could move into?

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BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
1 like

Having been close passed by a learner driver under instruction a few months ago it's pretty clear a significant portion either don't give a fuck about safety of people on bikes or they are not fit to be instructing the next generation of killers.

learner coming towards a row of three/four  parked cars on their side of the road, I'm already well in view before they get to the parked cars and they carry straight on to overtake, I'm in primary to dissuade the manoeure but still they prress on. We meet and there are two inches between me and the motorvehicles wing mirror.

He eventually, I presume, tells his charge to stop, I ask why hasn't he told her to give way to me, "there's enough space" says he, no there isn't I respond and tell him you've taken no account whatsoever for my safety, there's simply not enough space to drive past me and no leeway whatsoever for either yourself nor for me, if a gust of wind, a pothole, a micro incremental change of direction occurs there's a collision. He's adament there's space, he's a fucktard so I reported him to DVSA. Got a blah blah response back, no evidence yadda yadda.

My road is fairly quiet leading to where I live and is used by learner drivers all the time, I've seen some very poor instruction, failure to indicate or simply leaving the motor in the middle of the carriageway 9like a metre away from the kerb ffs!) facing in the opposite direction of travel thus causing an obstruction, not parked so should be indicating they are waiting/alighting, that's what the fecking indicators are for! 

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Hirsute replied to BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
0 likes

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

We meet and there are two inches between me and the motorvehicles wing mirror.

Did you consider sticking your elbow out a bit?

I had someone go past me last week at 40mph+ with only a few inches to spare - not a pleasant experience.

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brooksby | 5 years ago
4 likes

It's like those cases you see on Youtube where a motorist goes off the deep end because a cyclist touched their car (I know! apparently that, like, attracts an actual death penalty in some Merican states ) - anyway, they don't ever seem able to grasp that if the cyclist could touch their car then they were way too close...

Mind you, many motorists also seem unable to grasp that a cyclist passing stationary motor vehicles on their inside with just enough room to get their handlebars through (we've all done it) is in no way the same as a motor vehicle close passing a bicycle at 10-20 mph speed difference.

I've been close passed, caught up with the motorist (who stopped in a traffic queue fifty yards further on, naturally), and had them tell me that it was fine because they'd seen me going just as close up the inside of the queue (of stationary traffic!).

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Bmblbzzz replied to brooksby | 5 years ago
3 likes

brooksby wrote:

It's like those cases you see on Youtube where a motorist goes off the deep end because a cyclist touched their car (I know! apparently that, like, attracts an actual death penalty in some Merican states ) - anyway, they don't ever seem able to grasp that if the cyclist could touch their car then they were way too close...

Mind you, many motorists also seem unable to grasp that a cyclist passing stationary motor vehicles on their inside with just enough room to get their handlebars through (we've all done it) is in no way the same as a motor vehicle close passing a bicycle at 10-20 mph speed difference.

I've been close passed, caught up with the motorist (who stopped in a traffic queue fifty yards further on, naturally), and had them tell me that it was fine because they'd seen me going just as close up the inside of the queue (of stationary traffic!).

I can't remember where I read this, but a comparison that might make the difference between passing and being passed clear to people in general: Go to a car park and walk between the rows of parked cars, get as close as you can, brush their wing mirrors. Then stand still while someone drives past you with the same clearance. 

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brooksby | 5 years ago
5 likes

I suspect many motorists have a deep-seated fear about crossing a line - they won't give room because they fear they'll get in trouble for "crossing the line" (as if it'll be like crossing the streams or something...).

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tugglesthegreat | 5 years ago
8 likes

The problem as I see it is the highway code needs changing to be more specific.

The last point of Rule 163. "give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you  would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)"

Some drivers overtake cars with inches to spare, guess they see this as plenty of room, so then apply the same to overtaking cyclists.

Can we get a 1.5m rule in the highway code?

 

 

 

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