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Telegraph admits publishing "erroneous" Strava data — corrects story claiming "death trap" cyclists are hitting "52mph" while chasing London segments; Giro d'Italia helmet row; Richmond Park Strava segment flagged as hazardous + more on the live blog

It's the Wednesday live blog and Dan Alexander is on duty again (apologies if you're getting sick of me)... we've got more Giro coverage, news, reaction and more for you as we creep closer to a bank holiday weekend...

SUMMARY

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22 May 2024, 16:36
Telegraph admits publishing "erroneous" Strava data — corrects story claiming "death trap" cyclists are hitting "52mph" while chasing London segments

The Telegraph has removed figures from its story published on Friday claiming that "Lycra lout cyclists are creating death traps all over Britain", the piece justified with dodgy GPS data incorrectly suggesting cyclists were hitting speeds of 52 mph in London.

> Telegraph journalists told "check your research" after front page claims cyclists hit 52mph chasing London Strava segments... despite that being faster than Olympic track cyclists

The correction and amendment has been made online and comes after the newspaper published this on its front page last week...

Telegraph front page

The online version of the story is now titled: "How cyclists are turning UK roads into death traps". 

In a correction at the bottom of the article the newspaper admitted publishing "erroneous" data and claimed Strava data "cannot be checked or independently verified". Adding to the bizarre tale of one of the nation's biggest media organisations getting something so simple so spectacularly wrong, over the weekend it emerged that one of the journalists working on the story was a former BBC fact checker. No, really...

The Telegraph's correction states: "This article and its headline have been amended to remove speeds recorded on Strava which Strava has now deleted and which appear to have been erroneous. Data is uploaded to Strava by users, either automatically or manually, and cannot be checked or independently verified; the data is accepted on trust.  We are happy to clarify this point and correct the record."

The newspaper was ridiculed and heavily criticised for the piece, and there will be concerns the correction comes too late for the thousands of people who will have already read the headline online and in print.

Active Travel Commissioner Chris Boardman described the article as "hate speech" and said certain sections of the press' demonisation of cyclists as killers has "just got to stop".

"Mums, dads, sons and daughters being labelled as killers. It's just got to stop," he said. "I don't normally get involved in calling out headlines but it's just getting bonkers. If this was directed at a gender, race or religion it would be rightly called out as the hate speech it is."

The Sky Sports News presenter Sanny Rudravajhala also expressed his anger at the article's inaccuracies, addressing the authors on X/Twitter: "Your whole piece centres on injuries and deaths from cyclists without anything to compare it with. Four deaths caused by cyclists for example versus say the 1,711 from cars in 2022?

"Or 143,326 injuries from car accidents versus the 462 from cyclists that you mention. And bloody hell, this quote, 'Strava enthusiasts claim dangerous cyclists are a small minority'. - I mean, clearly they are? Or are the majority of Strava cyclists dangerous?

"I just cannot imagine compromising my entire journalistic training to the point of providing no balance whatsoever bar one random rider vox in an entire piece. Please do better."

The glut of media coverage around "dangerous cycling" was sparked by a recent coroner's inquest into the tragic case of 81-year-old Hilda Griffiths, killed in a collision with a cyclist in Regent's Park back in 2022, with the inquest being told that the cyclist would face no charges. 

Last weekend, the Telegraph reported that another pedestrian was hit by a cyclist at the same spot where Ms Griffiths was fatally struck. Strava responded by urging cyclists to "prioritise everyone's safety", stating that "hazardous" segments could be flagged on its platform. 

In response, the government agreed to introduce tougher laws for "dangerous cyclists" who kill or injure. The amendment to the Criminal Justice Bill, put forward by Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP, would introduce the offence of 'causing death by dangerous, careless or inconsiderate cycling, and causing serious injury by careless or inconsiderate cycling', with Transport Secretary Mark Harper saying the proposed legislation would ensure the "tiny minority" of reckless cyclists would face the "full weight of the law", while protecting "law-abiding cyclists".

22 May 2024, 16:03
So... anyone doing anything on July 4th?

It's nice of Rishi to schedule the election for the day of a flat (and likely very boring) first-week Tour de France sprint stage. July the fourth... wouldn't want to overshadow any of those punchy days or early mountains...

Rishi Sunak (OpenArt AI)

 

22 May 2024, 15:49
Alright smart-arse! Now you can turn your butt into a fitness tracker
22 May 2024, 15:16
Georg Steinhauser wins stage 17 of the Giro d'Italia

EF Pro Cycling and Georg Steinhauser finally have their stage win, for the German it's also his first pro win — not a bad day to do it on...

The result was in the bag from quite far out on the final climb, not that it will have felt that way for the 22-year-old grinding his way up the vicious (if immaculately surfaced) slopes of Passo Brocon. In the end his advantage was cut to 1:24 by the finish line, a late surge by Tadej Pogačar meaning the maglia rosa took even more time on his rivals. 

Behind Pogačar, there was once again little between the rest, Ben O'Connor suffering a bad day and losing time, but Antonio Tiberi, Geraint Thomas, Dani Martinez, Einer Rubio and Romain Bardet all finishing 1:42 down on Steinhauser.

22 May 2024, 14:41
Comment(s) of the day... I'm glad we're not the only ones who enjoy Soudal Quick-Step's sponsor shout-outs
Live blog comments 22 May 2024

It's a full on job when you work for a team whose website lists 48 sponsors and partners...

22 May 2024, 13:24
Giro d'Italia stage 17: Another tough day in the mountains

Picture the scene. You're two weeks into a Grand Tour. Knackered. You limp through a freezing day in the mountains, get back to the bus, open up the roadbook and are confronted with this for the next stage...

Giro d'Italia stage 17 (RCS)

An earlier break containing Julian Alaphilippe, Nairo Quintana, Damiano Caruso and a few others has since returned to the peloton, meaning it's almost entirely back together as the riders approach 50km to go. Lidl-Trek's Amanuel Ghebreigzabhier chased some mountain points at the top of the last climb and has found himself alone at the front with 30 seconds' advantage. Apart from that, there's just the main bunch of favourites (well, THE favourite and the rest) and those well off the back.

Is it going to be stage win number six for Pog?

22 May 2024, 13:06
Former cycling film actor accused of motor doping at French stage race dramatically flees and knocks down race director with his van
22 May 2024, 09:46
"If that does not invoke the extreme weather protocol, then what does?": Adam Hansen comments on stage 16 chaos

CPA riders' union President Adam Hansen has tried to explain the events that led to yesterday's stage being shortened and questioned the organisers' "let's see how it goes approach" in the face of freezing conditions that "would have resulted in riders on the side of the road, scattered all over the climb, looking for shelter in the snow".

Giro d'Italia 2024 (SWpix.com/Zac Williams)

"On the rest day, the CPA first contacted all stakeholders to arrange an agreement based on the weather forecast for stage 16," he said. "It was clear that the conditions on Umbrail Pass should invoke the UCI extreme weather protocol, and the riders proposed eliminating this pass to avoid two degrees with snow during the long descent.

"The riders' intention was to have a full race without having to stop and restart due to extreme weather. The riders stood united in their decision, which was communicated to show the seriousness of their stance. After many hours of negotiations on the morning of the race, the CPA did their best to convey the riders' seriousness in avoiding today's situation.

"In the end, it was clear that Umbrail Pass could not have been raced as local authorities closed the pass due to too much snow. If the riders had raced, as the stakeholders wanted, the race would have stopped at the Umbrail Pass. Please remember, the riders' intention was always to race from point A to B and put on a show, exactly like they did and how a race should be.

Larry Warbasse Giro d'Italia 2024 (SWpix.com/Zac Williams)

"So ultimately, due to the weather, the original race course could not have been completed. Especially since before the race had even started, it was zero degrees with snow. If that does not invoke the extreme weather protocol, then what does?

"It is 2024; we need to have a clear protocol in place for all stakeholders to understand and accept to preserve the good image of cycling. A 'let's see how it goes' approach, especially today, would have resulted in riders on the side of the road, scattered all over the climb, looking for shelter in the snow. This is not the solution for ensuring the riders' health."

22 May 2024, 09:37
The good people of Facebook sum up Pat's hat spat

Lefevere or the UCI: pick your fighter... no, you can't say neither...

Julian Alaphilippe 2024 Giro d'Italia (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)

The two comments we've got over on Facebook sum up the way this sort of thing divides opinion...

Steve Soper: "Stupid doesn't really cover most of these so called officials."

Paul Wilson: "Imagine the guys who are in charge of the rules applying the rules. The horror. You can't have it both ways, if the weather is increasing the danger then all the more reason to enforce the safety rules."

We'll spare you the poll...

22 May 2024, 09:29
Coastguard rescues child who fell 20 metres "down a steep bank" while cycling along cliff path
Falmouth Coastguard Rescue Team (Facebook)

Falmouth Coastguard Rescue Team said it was called to a cliff path between Maenporth and Swanpool on Monday evening to a report that a child had fallen around 20 metres down a steep bank while cycling along the route.

"Team members carried out an assessment of the casualty's injuries, suspecting a potentially serious leg injury and began treating him. Paramedics then arrived on scene and administered some pain relief to enable a comfortable move to our stretcher," the coastguard team confirmed.

"The casualty was then moved up the bank using some of our rope rescue equipment. He was then carried out along the footpath to a waiting ambulance for onward transport to hospital. The casualty was incredibly brave throughout his ordeal and we wish him a speedy recovery."

22 May 2024, 09:14
How long does it take to save up for an S-Works SL8 around the world?

CyclistsHub.com has shared an interesting article detailing how long it takes to afford a top-of-the-range SL8 around the world...

How long to save up for an S-Works SL8? (CyclistsHub.com/Petr Minarik)

Check out the full piece and all the stats here...

22 May 2024, 08:58
Richmond Park Strava segment flagged as hazardous
Richmond Park Strava segment hazardous

The main segment in south-west London's Richmond Park, a popular destination for cyclists in the English capital, has been flagged as hazardous after a week where Strava was thrust into the spotlight by much coverage around "dangerous cycling" in the national press.

The Royal Parks, the charity which also manages Richmond Park, asked Strava to remove a popular segment in Regent's Park due to a pedestrian being killed in a collision with a cyclist in two years ago.

In response, Strava told road.cc that it was urging cyclists to "prioritise everyone's safety" and "behaviours related to" the death of a pensioner — hit by a cyclist at speeds of 25-29mph as a group ride completed laps of Regent's Park — "violate" its community standards. The ride-sharing app also made it clear the feature to flag a segment as hazardous already exists.

On Friday, we reported that Telegraph journalists had been told to "check your research" after the paper put a story on its front page claiming that cyclists are hitting 52mph in pursuit of London Strava segments... despite that being faster than Olympic track cyclists, with Richmond Park named as one segment where cyclists were "creating death traps".

Telegraph front page/ cyclists in Richmond Park (Simon MacMichael/Telegraph)

The story led Active Travel Commissioner Chris Boardman to criticise the media's portrayal of cyclists. "Mums, dads, sons and daughters being labelled as killers. It’s just got to stop," he said.

22 May 2024, 08:39
What's the fastest way to commute by bike on a budget? The sub-£500 DIY e-bike vs acoustic bike challenge
22 May 2024, 07:51
Giro d'Italia helmet row as Patrick Lefevere questions jury after Julian Alaphilippe fined for removing helmet to "take off his wet cap" in the cold
Julian Alaphilippe 2024 Giro d'Italia (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)

A grim day at the Giro yesterday as the riders tackled a shortened, but still freezing cold and sodden, day of riding through the mountains. Julian Alaphilippe was again one of the protagonists, up the road chasing stage victory before Tadej Pogačar's latest display of inevitable superiority.

Everyone will have a story from stage 16, few who completed it will forget it quickly, but one reaction angle coming post-stage was regarding the jury's attitude to Alaphilippe briefly removing his helmet mid-stage to remove his wet hat beneath. Patrick Lefevere took to Twitter (a quintet of words that'll strike fear into anyone, I know, but don't worry, nothing contemptible today) to point out his rider was fined 200 Swiss francs (£172) for the pleasure.

"That's how they treat a rider who wants to take off his wet cap under his helmet," he wrote.

You can certainly understand Lefevere's frustration (a sentence I never thought I'd write), given the extreme weather conditions perhaps the jury could have cut Alaphilippe some slack in not wanting a soaking hat on his head? I'm sure they'd argue it is just their job to enforce the rules as they are written.

The replies suggest the cycling-watching public are split on it:

"The UCI wants a big Christmas Party this year!! Often wondered if fines are their party fund?"

"The correct way to do it is to stop, take of his helmet and wet cap, put helmet back on and set off again."

"When he falls on the wet road and suffers a serious head injury, everyone screams that he should have obeyed the rules. Or would he have done everything right even in this case? The penalty is justified if he doesn't stop, there are already enough serious injuries this season!"

"UCI are clowns sadly"

I'm glad we've cleared that one up then. Alaphilippe was also the subject of post-stage comments from fellow breakaway rider Ewen Costiou of Arkéa - B&B Hotels who finished ninth, the young Frenchman thanking his compatriot for taking "a big turn just for me while he was dead". The TV pictures showed the peloton nearing as the two-time champion got on the front of the breakaway, pushing the pace and emptying the tank to earn them some welcome seconds before he subsequently dropped out the back of the telly completely empty.

"He's a huge champion, it's great to have done that, he didn't have to," Costiou said.

And finally, we can't let this opportunity pass without another look at the Frenchman's amusing quotes published on his team's website. I say 'amusing' because Soudal-QuickStep are the masters of seamless sponsor shout-outs. This is the team, after all, who (in 2022 during Alaphilippe's recovery from a crash at Liège-Bastogne-Liège) reported their rider was now strong enough to "resume light training on a set of Tacx rollers".

It gave us a laugh imagining the team's doctor earnestly concluding: 'I'm sorry, Julian. Your body is not strong enough for Elite or Wahoo just yet. For people with your injuries, I always prescribe Tacx...'

Welcome to today's shoehorned sponsor shout-out...

"It was a crazy day," Alaphilppe said. "With the route change because of the weather, and the full gas tempo from the start all the way to the finish. The weather didn't make it easy, but Specialized's rain tyres have lots of grip in these conditions. I rode on my instinct and I can be happy with the way I gave my best.

"It was cold today, but I had my Castelli clothing to keep me warm and dry, which helped me stay in the lead so deep into the stage."

Fair play, superb name-dropping, plus the sponsors pay the bills to keep the team running... and we enjoy reading it and putting it on the blog. Long may it continue...

Dan is the road.cc news editor and has spent the past four years writing stories and features, as well as (hopefully) keeping you entertained on the live blog. Having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for the Non-League Paper, Dan joined road.cc in 2020. Come the weekend you'll find him labouring up a hill, probably with a mouth full of jelly babies, or making a bonk-induced trip to a south of England petrol station... in search of more jelly babies.

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81 comments

Avatar
momove replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
5 likes

Who are the people who can't hear electric vehicles approaching? Other car drivers, I imagine.

While there's no aggressively loud engine revving, I've never experienced electric vehicles as being hard to hear.

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hawkinspeter replied to momove | 1 month ago
8 likes

momove wrote:

Who are the people who can't hear electric vehicles approaching? Other car drivers, I imagine. While there's no aggressively loud engine revving, I've never experienced electric vehicles as being hard to hear.

Whether or not a vehicle is silent should be irrelevant - people need to look before crossing a road or performing a maneouvre if using a vehicle. If someone is only listening out for loud engines, then they're likely to step into the path of a cyclist or EV.

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brooksby replied to hawkinspeter | 1 month ago
3 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Whether or not a vehicle is silent should be irrelevant - people need to look before crossing a road or performing a maneouvre if using a vehicle. If someone is only listening out for loud engines, then they're likely to step into the path of a cyclist or EV.

Yeah, but they don't look, do they?  And they do regularly step out in front of cyclists (unless I turned invisible and didn't notice).

In a sense, this study is just exactly what everyone was saying a few years ago about the lack of engine noise from EV (remember when the idea was doing the rounds to add fake engine noise?  Have your EV sound like a ICE car, or like the Millennium Falcon…).

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
6 likes

brooksby wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Whether or not a vehicle is silent should be irrelevant - people need to look before crossing a road or performing a maneouvre if using a vehicle. If someone is only listening out for loud engines, then they're likely to step into the path of a cyclist or EV.

Yeah, but they don't look, do they?  And they do regularly step out in front of cyclists (unless I turned invisible and didn't notice).

In a sense, this study is just exactly what everyone was saying a few years ago about the lack of engine noise from EV (remember when the idea was doing the rounds to add fake engine noise?  Have your EV sound like a ICE car, or like the Millennium Falcon…).

Personally, I think adding fake engine noise is a mistake - it's almost validating the idea that people can cross the road without looking and besides which, it ignores the fact that cyclists don't often make engine noises (brrrm brrrm)

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 1 month ago
1 like

As others have suggested, it may be noise is not all of it, possibly not even the main factor (haven't checked the report yet).  I could imagine it does play a role sometimes (by introspection at least one person does "look with their ears" - at least I seem to catch myself using sound to cue how much visual attention I allocate).

Anyway, this is all a good opportunity to consider sonic skeuomorphs again - or "one vehicle to the tune of another".  Bring on Trotify!

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lonpfrb replied to hawkinspeter | 1 month ago
2 likes

Ding Ding, I'm a bicycle!

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hawkinspeter replied to lonpfrb | 1 month ago
0 likes

lonpfrb wrote:

Ding Ding, I'm a bicycle!

I sometimes call out "ding ding" instead of using a bell to warn pedestrians on a shared path. I tend to go for "beep beep" if they're in the road or for the very worst non-looking offenders, I'll shout a loud "oi!" at them until they look round (whilst amending my speed/direction so I can avoid them if they don't respond).

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OnYerBike replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
1 like

brooksby wrote:

(remember when the idea was doing the rounds to add fake engine noise?  Have your EV sound like a ICE car, or like the Millennium Falcon…).

I thought it is now standard to add artificial noise to electric cars at low speeds? Certainly I've noticed electric cars making a noise I have assumed to be added. Nothing as outlandish as fake ICE exhaust noise or the Millennium Falcon, but just a generic sci-fi-esque whine. 

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lonpfrb replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
0 likes

Logically both internal and external noise should be flexible/programmable. Tyre noise is included.

Millennium Falcon it is then..

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chrisonabike replied to lonpfrb | 1 month ago
2 likes

Your choice of:

Imperial March from Star Wars

Top Gear theme ("Jessica" by the Allman Brothers Band)

Born to be Wild - Steppenwolf

Driving in my car - Madness

Postman Pat theme

Crazy Frog

?

Avatar
mattw replied to hawkinspeter | 1 month ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

momove wrote:

Who are the people who can't hear electric vehicles approaching? Other car drivers, I imagine. While there's no aggressively loud engine revving, I've never experienced electric vehicles as being hard to hear.

Whether or not a vehicle is silent should be irrelevant - people need to look before crossing a road or performing a maneouvre if using a vehicle. If someone is only listening out for loud engines, then they're likely to step into the path of a cyclist or EV.

It's also about silent approach of vehicles to people who are not looking and may be standing - for example in shared space areas.

One user group concerned are visually impaired. of course.

AIUI EU regs are audible warning required at less than 30kph, as that is approximately the speed where road noise dips beneath the chosen minimum threshold.

It seems very sensible.

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hawkinspeter replied to mattw | 1 month ago
1 like

mattw wrote:

It's also about silent approach of vehicles to people who are not looking and may be standing - for example in shared space areas.

One user group concerned are visually impaired. of course.

AIUI EU regs are audible warning required at less than 30kph, as that is approximately the speed where road noise dips beneath the chosen minimum threshold.

It seems very sensible.

Shared space areas are problematic for blind people anyhow, so just adding some fake noise to EVs is unlikely to help them feel safe (probably textured surfaces are required so they can tell when they're at the edges).

My main complaint against having fake EV noises is that logically it doesn't seem to make much sense when we have other silent traffic (scooters, cyclists, joggers), and the urban environment is noisy enough without adding fake noises. It doesn't surprise me that more people are turning to using headphones to deal with noise anxiety due to the constant traffic noise that we're subjected to.

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wycombewheeler replied to momove | 1 month ago
1 like

momove wrote:

Who are the people who can't hear electric vehicles approaching? Other car drivers, I imagine. While there's no aggressively loud engine revving, I've never experienced electric vehicles as being hard to hear.

If only people would look with their eyes and not their ears, it wouldn't matter if they were as quiet as maglev trains.

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mattw replied to momove | 1 month ago
0 likes

Hearing impaired, deaf and deaf-blind for a start.

And hearing impaired may be a condition like tinnitus (roughly a constant or intermittent self-generated noise when something in the hearing system does not work properly), or many others.

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antigee replied to momove | 1 month ago
0 likes

momove wrote:

Who are the people who can't hear electric vehicles approaching? Other car drivers, I imagine. While there's no aggressively loud engine revving, I've never experienced electric vehicles as being hard to hear.

I can think of a couple of times been seriously caught out...once an electric bus...there was a bit of wind noise but merging lanes and what I believe motorcyclists call "a lifesaver" saved me...another time riding thru a car park (in these parts a lot of shared paths follow rail lines and disappear in car parks) passed an electric Honda on the left as was slowing and indicating right presumably having spotted an empty bay...30 secs or so later as I came to exit the car park again shoulder check and driver hadn't turned and car was a metre or so behind me and heading to pass... just yesterday out walking the doggo I was looking but passed by a virtually silent (no tyre noise) Tesla and driver was intent on using the acceleration that comes with electric propulsion as weaved thru set of islands that don't slow modern cars down...the acceleration as well as the silence was what drew my attention as being different to an SUV or sports car

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Jakrayan replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
6 likes

True. However, this does suggest that a significant factor in the much higher risk of a pedestrian being struck by the driver of an electric car is that they didn't hear it coming / didn't look before stepping into the road. These cars tend to be heavier due to the added weight of batteries (and a motor in the case of hybrids) so may well cause more injuries at the same speed. Hopefully people will learn to look properly before crossing the road, though I'm not hopeful bearing in mind how many I see glued to phones. 

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john_smith replied to Jakrayan | 1 month ago
2 likes

I can't see the extra mass making a lot of difference. The shape and rigidity of whatever part hits you are surely going to have a much bigger influence on the severity of injuries. 

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Mr Hoopdriver replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
13 likes

What _really_ irked me about the article was the phrase "eco-friendly cars...".

I'm expecting "the quiet man"  to now call for "causing death by quiet driving" to be made an offence.

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chrisonabike replied to Mr Hoopdriver | 1 month ago
2 likes

Perhaps "Emit elsewhere"?  Or "slightly better for the environment in some ways but maybe worse in others"* ?  Or "new tech fixes old tech" - dodge issues with a current technology / find a "new stretch of road" by switching to another.  Which of course will come with its own problems, more or less further down the road!

* Whatever other issues there are with new "green tech" one issue it doesn't seem to address is being able to produce the raw materials in a sustainable manner, due to continued large-scale requirements for concrete and good-quality steels.  And as ever Jevon's paradox may apply.

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mattw replied to Mr Hoopdriver | 1 month ago
0 likes

Mr Hoopdriver wrote:

What _really_ irked me about the article was the phrase "eco-friendly cars...".

I'm expecting "the quiet man"  to now call for "causing death by quiet driving" to be made an offence.

The quiet man is currently gurgling as he has risen to the surface of the political toilet for the third time before being flushed away to the memory hole of  history.

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I love my bike replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
8 likes

& not 'accidents' either!

'Younger drivers being less experienced' So is the driving test not strict enough? or doesn't cover not hitting pedestrians?!

Maybe it's the touted 'insane' acceleration away from traffic lights etc?

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andystow replied to I love my bike | 1 month ago
5 likes

I love my bike wrote:

& not 'accidents' either!

'Younger drivers being less experienced' So is the driving test not strict enough? or doesn't cover not hitting pedestrians?!

Maybe it's the touted 'insane' acceleration away from traffic lights etc?

I suspect the acceleration. The raw data should make it obvious, if the Nissan Leaf is hitting pedestrians at a similar rate or much lower rate than Teslas.

My wife drives a Leaf, and while the acceleration is more than adequate, it's an easy car to drive slowly.

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chrisonabike replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
3 likes

brooksby wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more...

gRauniad wrote:

[...] the vehicles are much quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in towns and cities.

Worth investigation but at the more dangerous speeds (20mph and up) doesn't road noise dominate?   So presumably both ICE and electric vehicles are a similiar volume?

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stonojnr replied to chrisonabike | 1 month ago
2 likes

Ime that's the case, at 30mph there's very little difference in most ice cars to evs, road noise, once past you yes the engine exhaust makes an ice louder, but you can see them then.

When they're travelling milk float speeds it's harder to hear them approach, above other ice noise

Whether it's novelty factor as they're easier to spot I do think Tesla drivers close pass alot though.

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lonpfrb replied to chrisonabike | 1 month ago
1 like

Similar tyres say yes..

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mattw replied to chrisonabike | 1 month ago
0 likes

Yes, which is why EU regs apply below I think 30kph.

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essexian replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
3 likes

The research is nonsense as for the last few years, EV have had to have noise generators when travelling at low speeds so people can hear them coming. The research is from 2018 when EVs didn't have such.... I know as my first EV was new in 2018..... it was great fun creeping up on Peds in car parks who couldn't be bothered to look up from their phones.

You would have to be stupid or on the phone....same thing some might say.... to get caught out by an EV in 2024. 

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CyclingGardener replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
3 likes

I can think of a number of possible reasons for this which could do with some research:
- Yes many peds do seem to rely on hearing. Very few do a shoulder check before crossing a side road; so much so that I've taken to calling out 'Electric car?' as I manoeuvre round them . . .
- Potential faster acceleration which - especially if the vehicle 'looks' slow and heavy (SUV, van) - might well take someone not expecting it by surprise.
- Maybe type of driver? Interesting the article mentions youth. Possibly also a particular drivist attitude. Lots of e-cars are now SUV types.
- One that worries me when cycling too: more 'tech'. Both in terms of screens to look at or touch for controls, both distracting; and also proto-self-drive 'safety' stuff. The latter raises the concern that people might not realise they have it (keep in lane really scary in that possibility!), might not understand how it works, or might rely on it too much and not pay proper attention.
Whatever, if statistically significant it certainly needs looking into, especially the last, as this could well become an issue in its own right.

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Grahamd replied to CyclingGardener | 1 month ago
2 likes

Another factor that should not be overlooked is that cars are getting increasingly wider so they will invariably be closer to the pavement.

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I love my bike replied to CyclingGardener | 1 month ago
2 likes

- Yes many peds do seem to rely on hearing. Very few do a shoulder check before crossing a side road; so much so that I've taken to calling out 'Electric car?' as I manoeuvre round them . . .

The HWC was updated, so maybe you should anticipate & let them have priority (?)

Not sure what an observant ped should do if it's a Tesla approaching; eye contact is even more meaningless!

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