"Thanks Essex, we love you, from Surrey x": NIMBY locals love RideLondon relocation; Lance's controversial Zwift ride; School run not LTNs the real traffic problem, says Cllr; Contador hails golden generation; But cyclists + more on the live blog

MattJames wrote:

RideLondon - as a Surrey-resident regular cyclist, I'm delighted the event is moving. 
 

On the years I participate, it makes no difference, since both the start and finish are in central London. In fact, since I ride the Surrey Hills every weekend anyway, seeing somewhere else is great.  
 

On the years I don't get through the ballot (most of them), I still get to ride in the Hills instead of being shut out. On balance, PRL has reduced my cycling over the years. 
 

PRL is one of my least favourite long sportives anyway: I see far more serious accidents than on any other event (certainly any other closed-road event), and because they are always oversubscribed (as is the London Marathon, their only other event) I don't feel they treat participants very well. For example, obliging participants to go trek out to ExCel beforehand is a real pita. 
 

Economic impact analysis for the event is not easy to find, but in my estimation there is more downside than upside. Restricted trading for shops in Kingston, Leatherhead, Dorking etc, but no really inbound tourism since everyody stays near the Olympic Park or the finish. In any case, whether you believe it's a benefit or a blight, it's fair enough to move it around. If the great Tours can change route every year, so can PRL. 

I've never seen any accidents on any sportives, although I'm sure they happen. I wonder what you are doing to see so many, that you can judge the relative safety of events?

Or do you mean you see more reports of accidents on ride london? which is less surprising since it is by far the largest field of any UK sportive.

IME the bigger the field size,the more accidents occur, and closed roads seems to increase that level further.

I saw alot of people riding in ways at the last Velo Birmingham that caused alot of accidents as a result, that actually made me quite nervous to be anywhere near any other riders, Id also passed the scene where the rider who crashed, sadly died as a result of their injuries whilst they were still being treated.

That was certainly something that made me question doing Ride London, as colleagues I've spoken to who had done it told me similar crash experiences, but that it was actually worse as it happened more frequently.

And its certainly something that would concern me on a much flatter, faster course through Essex.

I passed the same location after the unfortunate person was removed by ambulance at the velo, I think that was more down to a very fast sweeping downhill suddenly going into a steep uphill. Sudden speed reductions from the ones who get their gear changes wrong or who slip a cog and the accident was there. It didn't help it was in the special starts group which mixed the people who would complete it in 4.5 hours at 24mph average in a chain and the people who got the early start because they were from a big company. 

Absolutely want to be clear I wasn't linking the crashes I saw and the rider who died as connected in any way at all. It was more the impact it had on me personally, as it was clearly a very serious incident, but then seeing other riders still constantly crash, all day,often right in front of me.

it just made me more nervous than I've ever been on a sportive around other riders, and when I spoke to my colleagues who had ridden Ride London who pretty much went,yeah it's the same if not worse, you kind of think is it really worth doing these kinds of rides.

The other closed road event where I have seen a couple of serious crashes - although it is still one of my favourites - is the London Duathlon in Richmond Park. Some slower, less experienced athletes forget to keep left and shoulder check as they overtake, and I've twice seen them move straight into the path of much faster competitors. That bothers me because it could be countered by drumming reminders into everybody before and during the race.

Other events have their moments, but most are just bad luck. 

You've been lucky. On my last outing in 2019 I saw 4: 1 directly, 2 aftermaths of ambulances etc, and I believe the huge hold-up on that saw us held at the bottom of Leith Hill for about 20 minutes was another. The direct one was nasty - just too many bikes as the road narrowed for a tiny bridge over a stream somewhere near Cobham: a lady I had been chatting to a little earlier just didn't see the railings through the crowd, clipped them and flipped over into the ditch. It was like a Tour crash on kerbs etc. 

Gosh well done Nige, that was the main point. Not by any chance offended by criticism of Tory donor and anti-vaxxer Caudwell? 

The guy who maybe should acknowledge that the fact that he is "lucky to be alive" is due to the very Italian hospital at which he is bitching for following standard Covid protocols and for not having the foresight to employ English speaking staff?

The guy who gave £500,000 to the Tory party in 2019, the party that has done more than any other to disdvantage and limit the opportunities for members of his own class?

The guy whose Caudwell Children charity, in the words of the far-left Times newspaper, "has been directing families towards alternative medicine practitioners who claim that vaccines are toxic," the charity that the National Autistic Society forced to remove false claims that it had their support from its publicity, the charity that (again in the words of the communist London Times) "made money available for families to see Finbar Magee, a Belfast GP who resigned his status as a doctor last year after a film crew recorded him prescribing a bleach “supplement” to the parents of a three-year-old autistic boy."

Yeah, that guy.

Rendel Harris wrote:

The guy who gave £500,000 to the Tory party in 2019, the party that has done more than any other to disdvantage and limit the opportunities for members of his own class?

Which UK nation has seen the biggest increase in disadvantaged children applying for a university place?

Wales? Scotland? Northern Ireland? England? Have a guess Rendel?

Those bloody Tories...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2016/jan/28/the-ev...

Thank you for providing a source, which includes this statement:

The high ability kids start off about the same, but over time the rot sets in. The gap grows and grows, with a dramatic decline for the less advantaged kids between key stage 2 (7-11) and key stage 4 (14-16). The same gap opens up between the average ability kids too, to such a large extent that by the time the four groups of children reach their GCSEs, the average ability rich kids are pulling ahead of the high ability poor kids, who by the age of 16 are already stuck in a long term rut that will affect how the rest of their lives unfold.

Creating a system of artificially inflated grades to allow more people to take up low-quality university places where the grades are once again artificially inflated (35% 1st class degrees, anyone?) creates an illusion of equality but does nothing to address fundamental inequality in education, as your helpfully-provided source shows. Both Tories and Labour have been guilty of this sort of window dressing.

You claimed that the Conservatives were taking opportunities away from the working class yet the Conservatives have been far more successful in getting children from working class backgrounds to University.

That significantly undermines your statement.

The gap discussed in your quote seems to occur at the point that children enter secondary education and wealthier families are able to buy access to the best schools.

Maybe we should allocate places on ability rather than wealth?

Rich_cb wrote:

You claimed that the Conservatives were taking opportunities away from the working class yet the Conservatives have been far more successful in getting children from working class backgrounds to University.

If children of any class are getting into university as a result of false grade inflation and the creation of meaningless degree places that can be attained with DEE then that's not an achievement to be praised.

Rich_cb wrote:

Maybe we should allocate places on ability rather than wealth?

Which is precisely what doesn't happen at the moment, given the vast overrepresentation of private and public school students at Oxbridge and RG universities.

You've deliberately ignored my point there Rendel.

The attainment gap opens at secondary school age.

Should secondary school places be allocated on ability?

Or should we stick to doing it based on parental wealth?

The overrepresentation of private school pupils at the top universities is, ironically, overstated.

Nigel Garage wrote:

Should bring back grammar schools, disgraceful that under a Tory government they haven't done more to help intelligent children from all backgrounds.

Anybody who has a year six child who has just taken grammar school tests will know that it is a complete myth that grammar schools help social mobility.  

What would help in your opinion?

Rich_cb wrote:

What would help in your opinion?

Lots of stuff here - https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/about-us

Any chance of a pointer to the specific stuff on social mobility?

There's a hell of a lot of content and it's not the easiest page to navigate.

Rich_cb wrote:

Any chance of a pointer to the specific stuff on social mobility? There's a hell of a lot of content and it's not the easiest page to navigate.

It's all about social mobility - as breaking the link between income and educational attainment is their whole purpose.  I'm not sure I can give a short, sensible answer - there's not a magic bullet - and I'm not sure this is the best place for an in-depth discussion on pedagogy.

Edit - this page may help https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-...

Rich_cb wrote:

The overrepresentation of private school pupils at the top universities is, ironically, overstated.

6% of students are privately educated, yet they take 25% of the places in Russell Group institutions, and 30%+ of Oxbridge places. That's not over- or understatement, just a fact.

I can always rely on you to parrot widely held falsehoods Rendel. Thank you.

That 6% figure is the first inaccuracy.

What percentage of 16-18 year olds go to private school?

18%.

The 6% figure is designed to overstate the disparity. It is repeated by those trying to mislead and by their gullible followers.

Do private schools outperform state schools academically? Yes.

If they did you'd expect to see their pupils overrepresented by about the margins seen.

Rendel Harris wrote:

The guy who gave £500,000 to the Tory party in 2019, the party that has done more than any other to disdvantage and limit the opportunities for members of his own class?

While I agree with your othe points, it could be argued that Mr Caudwell made his fortune depsite his class under a conservativbe government.

Although it sometimes seems to me that the comparing the current tory party to the tories of the 80s is like comparing the boston tea party movement with the republican party.

Actually Phones4U opened in 1996,and sold for £1.4BN in 2006, so it could be argued that the vast bulk of Caudwell's fortune was made under a Labour government!

Rendel Harris wrote:

Actually Phones4U opened in 1996,and sold for £1.4BN in 2006, so it could be argued that the vast bulk of Caudwell's fortune was made under a Labour government!

fair enough, although he would have had to generate enough wealth pre 1996 to start his own business. I remember phones4u being pretty widespread in the late 90s. so the preceding tory years certainly didn't prevent him from succeeding.

Now now Rendel, you have been told. It wasn't the staff at the hospital that reinflated his lung and made sure he didn't die, it was his helmet that reinflated his lung and made sure he didn't die. At least that is what I can take from Boos claims that the helmet saved his life.

Yep, second takeaway being it's also OK to be rude about, and ungrateful to, a bunch of foreign johnnies who saved your life provided you make a lot of money.

...especially if they haven't noticed that Sussex and Surrey aren't the same thing in the first place.