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Is “the principal benefit of cycling achieved only by risking life and limb”? Cyclist gets lambasted for jumping traffic queue; 30km/hr speed limit for bicycles in Flanders; Van Aert trains for cyclocross in snow + more on the live blog

The mercury’s dropping, but you don’t have to worry about getting dropped this Thursday with your live blog host Adwitiya as he brings you all the crucial news from the cycling world
30 November 2023, 09:36
Is the "principal benefit of cycling achieved only by risking life and limb"? Cyclist gets lambasted for jumping traffic queue

To start the day with, I have a video for you all, shared by a cyclist showing him navigating his way through a traffic queue, with the caption: "I'm posting this just so some motorists can get mad".

And lo and behold, it seems to have hit a nerve with motorists, or rather most people, so much so that in usual social media (Twitter) fashion, some were even found wishing bodily harm upon the cyclist.

The video posted by the account called Cycling in Kilkenny has been viewed almost 20,000 times, and the top reply right now, posted by Neal O'Kelly reads: "The bit that amuses me is that the principal benefit of cycling (not having to queue in traffic) is achieved only by risking life and limb, but then cyclists complain that motorists put them in danger."

Oh my! So if I'm getting this right, the chief advantage of cycling is to not have to queue in traffic? And you can only actually reap the rewards of this by having to risk your "life and limb"

A few insidious comments too...

But of course, there was some banter too.

But after all is said done, is it actually a good idea to go past drivers on a not-very-wide road with oncoming traffic from the opposite side, with one person also pointing out that overtaking on the the Belisha beacon crossing was not a very "clever" idea, or is it just natural, and maybe even more efficient and quicker for everyone if cyclists were to filter past slower-moving traffic in this sort of situation?

What do you think? Let me know in the comments!

30 November 2023, 17:09
Meet "David Plowie" and "Spready Salted", who keep London's bike routes open and safe, whatever the weather
30 November 2023, 16:23
Victory for cyclists and walkers in legal challenge to council decision to reopen narrow bridge to motor traffic
Keyhole Bridge before and after, Poole (via Cycling UK).PNG

Finally, some good news to cut through the usual doom and glow on this live blog!

Cycling UK has won a legal challenge against Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (BCP) Council over the latter’s decision to keep a narrow road underneath a railway bridge in Poole open to motor vehicles – and says that the decision underlines the need for local authorities to properly evaluate the benefits of temporary restrictions on motor traffic before removing them.

Earlier this year, the charity applied for a judicial review of the council keeping Keyhole Bridge in Poole Park open to motor vehicles, with drivers regularly using it as a rat-run, thereby posing a danger to vulnerable road users due to the narrowness of the road.

> Victory for cyclists and walkers in legal challenge to council decision to reopen narrow bridge to motor traffic

30 November 2023, 16:03
The unholy, ungodly, satanic thread for which no one is prepared for.

You could say that your live blog host isn't too keen on a lot of the AI art you see popping around, but what I've just seen takes the cake as the best use of it. I almost want to say I'm okay with this sort of use as long as it's only relegated to memes and laughs.

Bram Wulteputte asked ChatGPT to design a pro cycling kit, and normally it came out without any of those things know as, sponsors. However, he wrote on Twitter that for every 10 likes, he'd ask the AI to add more sponsors.

Now while some of them are quite nice to look initially (I really hope teams don't start designing their kits using this technique), but by the team this trainwreck reaches its conclusion, it's an acid-fuelled, nightmarish, bizarre trip. Anyway, here goes the most unhinged cycling thread ever...

These actually look good.

Skip a few, and here we are.

Now we are in crazy town.

We are NOT playing anymore. This is really serious now.

Galaxies, universes, wormholes... Cycling has gone cosmic.

THIS. This is what cycling will morph into. Ring the bells, for the AI has seen the future! Don't tell us we didn't warn you...

30 November 2023, 15:35
More bad news: Cycling market downturn worse than expected, says Halfords
halfords-store-front

Halfords, the UK’s biggest bike retailer, has said that the downturn in the UK retail cycling market is worse than it expected, but adds that while its sales in the segment have fallen during the first half of its current financial year, it is performing better than its competitors.

Meanwhile, Crawley, West Sussex-based independent bike shop chain Balfe’s Bikes has published its latest  full-year financial results, posting a loss for the year to end-March 2023.

Read more: > Cycling market downturn worse than expected, says Halfords

30 November 2023, 13:24
2023 Paris Roubaix Mathieu van der Poel © Zac Williams-SWpix.com - 1 (1)
Leave the bar tape at home! No Paris-Roubaix cobbles for 2025 Tour de France Grand Départ from Lille
2025 Tour de France Grand Depart route (image: ASO)

2025 Tour de France etape un à trois (image: ASO)

The 2025 Tour de France Grand Départ route has just been unveiled by the organisers ASO, and it doesn't bring me any joy to inform you that despite the peloton setting off from France's Lille-Nord, tucked away in the Flemish region bordering Belgium and ever-so-close to the fabled cobbles which feature in the Paris-Roubaix classic, we won't see the riders battle the brutal pavé.

If we can have 14 gravel sectors through the champagne vineyards in next years' Tour de France, we could have surely had the cobbles, especially when it's right there!

Anyway, the overall route does seem promising, with punchy climbs and the potential for crosswinds making things interesting in what is certainly going to be a sprinter's victory.

Stage two ends at the lush seaside Boulogne-sur-Mer, albeit with a tough summit finish where Peter Sagan  won in 2012, and finally the stage 3 from Valenciennes will feature the Cote de Cassel climb before the riders finish at Dunkerque.

30 November 2023, 13:12
Happy St Andrew's Day!

Nothing to do with cycling, but considering it's St Andrew's Day today, it's only fair I place this comical clip of Twitter boss Elon Musk trying to act vaguely amiable but failing hilariously on this live blog

"I am Andrew."
"Sorry!"
"It's okay..."

Looking back at this, there would probably be much better ways to wish our Scottish readers and all those celebrating, but oh well, some might say there could be better live blog hosts but you all are stuck with me instead!

30 November 2023, 12:59
Cyclist filtering through traffic: Not okay! Drivers doing the same: All good mate!

Oh this one brings back memories of another live blog post, possibly from this morning? So let me try and get this right, if cyclists jump a stopped vehicle (as was the case in the other video), it's dangerous behaviour which can cause (and even draw wishes of strangers online) of bodily harm, but if you do so when sat in a metal cage, it's all good and the cyclist is making something out of nothing!

30 November 2023, 12:25
Cyclist catches taxi driver using mobile phone... and gets called "coward" (thrice)

London's finest, ladies and gentlemen!

30 November 2023, 11:47
Cyclists in Flanders (via Flickr by antoine, CC BY 2.0 DEED)
Speed cameras given the go ahead for bicycle streets in Flanders — with impending 30km/hr limit on cycling soon

Flanders, one of the most historically rich and significant places for cycling in the world, has just approved a plan which will see the installation of unmanned, automated speed cameras in the bicycle streets of the Dutch speaking region of Belgium.

More importantly, a speed limit of 30km/hr will be applicable to everyone, including cyclists, and violation will lead to penalisation.

Bicycle streets, a common road infrastructure in Flanders and other parts of Belgium, are intended for cyclists to cycle easily and safely. Although people in cars and other motorised traffic are still allowed to drive there, they are subordinate to bikes and are not allowed to overtake cyclists.

> Do cyclists have to stick to the speed limit?

The Brussels Times reports that the speed cameras are scheduled for spring next year, once the draft decision has been approved by the Flemish Government. The law will then take effect ten days after its publication in the Belgian Official Gazette.

Until now, violations of the 30 km/h speed limit within a cycling zone could only be detected by manned automatic devices, requiring police officers to detect violations and impose sanctions. But soon speeding violations will be detected with speed cameras or average speed checks, without the need for a police officer.

> Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30mph zone despite speed limits not applying to bicycle riders

Lydia Peeters, the Flemish Minister of Mobility and Public Works, said: "In recent years, many local authorities have set up cycling zones to give cyclists more space. Cycling is becoming more popular and it is my ambition to get even more people cycling in the coming years.

"With this adjustment, we give local authorities and police zones more options to enforce the speed limit. This is good for road safety and to encourage bicycle use."

30 November 2023, 10:57
Everyone, get your pitchforks out! It's road vs gravel bike time
Is a gravel bike the ultimate winter bike? Nov 2023

I'm sure this will be a civil and amicable discussion: What should be your winter bike? The same ol', trusty road bike, or is there a case for switching to a gravel bike?

road.cc writer Emily Tillet makes the case for the latter, and shares her experience of how having a gravel bike to tackle those harsh, wet, muddy conditions in the winter could be a better option for many...

Read the full article: > Is a gravel bike the ultimate winter bike? Why you should make the switch to gravel from the classic winter road bike

30 November 2023, 10:43
A simple game of "Guess who"
30 November 2023, 10:20
MP duped by Daily Mail article claiming famous palm tree will be “chopped down” to make way for cycle lanes gets corrected by London’s cycling commissioner
Palm tree on Lambeth Bridge, London, being removed as part of cycle lane plans (Will Norman)

A Conservative MP who urged Transport for London to have a “rethink”, as she posted a Daily Mail article claiming that a famous palm tree in the city is set to be “chopped down” to make way for cycle lanes, has been criticised by walking and cycling commissioner Will Norman, who pointed out that the tree is simply being relocated in order to “make London’s most dangerous junction safer for road users.”

The online backlash against Nickie Aiken came after the Conservative MP for Cities of London and Westminster reposted on X, formerly Twitter, a Daily Mail story on the removal of the phoenix palm tree, located on the northern roundabout at Lambeth Bridge, with the caption “save our palm tree”.

However, Aiken’s tweet prompted a vociferous response from cycling campaigners in the capital, including London’s walking and cycling commissioner Will Norman.

“As you know Nickie, the tree isn’t being chopped down, it is being relocated to make London’s most dangerous junction safer for road users,” Norman wrote. “We do not want any more fatal collisions at this location.”

 

> MP duped by Daily Mail article claiming famous palm tree will be “chopped down” to make way for cycle lanes gets corrected by London’s cycling commissioner

30 November 2023, 09:58
A Tale of Two Disciplines: Van der Poel and Evenepoel enjoy sunny ride in Spain, while Wout Van Aert trains for cyclocross in snow

Oh the duality of cycling. Two riders enjoying a ride in the most beautiful weather on a sunny hill in Spain, while another drudges his way through the snow with a bike.

With the cyclocross season now underway, it's time for the roadies to let loose, but if you've chosen the double life of a cross and a road cyclist, there ain't no rest for the wicked.

The men's road racing world champion Mathieu van der Poel and the men's time trial champion Remco Evenepoel were filmed cycling together in Calp, a quaint little town on Spain's Mediterranean coast, with clear blue skies and a shining sun overhead.

Evenepoel also posted the ride on his Strava, on which he was also accompanied by another Alpecin rider Siebe Roesems, with the activity titled 'FC Alpecin'.

 

And then on the other hand, there's Wout van Aert, fresh off the back of winning Tour of Britain and a road season which seemed to dazzle and burn too brightly at the start, only for it to flicker in the middle and end with not as many victories and goals as the Belgian rider might have wanted to achieve.

Wout van Aert, Dublin UCI Cyclocross World Cup 2022 (Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)

Wout van Aert, Dublin UCI Cyclocross World Cup 2022 (Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)

It's been almost 10 months that Van Aert has raced in cyclocross, and now the 29-year-old rider from Herentals, Flanders, was back in his home region to amp up his CX training. With temperatures below the freezing point, he completed a 146km ride yesterday, and another 68km on Tuesday, with the latter titled 'Annual wake-up call'.

Belgian rider Eli Iserbyt chipping in with a cheeky comment on Strava: "Please don't wake up too much."

And to add more to the misery, Van Aert also did a 10km run in wet snow yesterday, also part of training regiment for cylocross. Cycling, what a brutal sport.

 

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

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80 comments

Avatar
quiff | 3 months ago
0 likes

AI cycling kit: the shoes are making me twitch. Why did nobody prompt it to replace football boots with cycling shoes?! 

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eburtthebike | 3 months ago
5 likes

Musk: “The only reason I am here, Jonathan, is because you are a friend.”

Hilarious!  As if he has friends.

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cyclisto | 3 months ago
1 like

To the angry cyclist for overtaking cars the red bus, there is a great cycle path next to him.

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Rendel Harris replied to cyclisto | 3 months ago
15 likes

cyclisto wrote:

To the angry cyclist for overtaking cars the red bus, there is a great cycle path next to him.

If you had ever ridden that route, or indeed just looked carefully at the end, you would know that the cycle path is not finished, if you look near the end of the video you can see that it's blocked by signs. The intention ultimately is that one will be able to carry on straight heading west towards Southwark Park and on to Tower Bridge, but at the moment the only way to keep going is to get off the cycle path and go where the camera cyclist is going, round the one-way system.

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cyclisto replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
1 like

I saw it had some obstacles that force you to stop, but I would definitely pick this route than share the road with motor traffic. The cycle path on the video is like a motorway compared to the one I use for my commute, and still prefer it than the main road.

@hawkinspeter yes tangling with pedestrians often happens, but in such cases I have to shame to overtake them by their pedestrian side.

Overall cycle paths can be a little slower, but I don't like trading speed for safety.

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Adam Sutton replied to cyclisto | 3 months ago
1 like

There was also another cyclist using it fine, go figure.

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Rendel Harris replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
4 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

There was also another cyclist using it fine, go figure.

Please see what I wrote above, the cycle lane stops just after where the bus has stopped and the only way of progressing from there is to cross both the traffic lanes and ride in the carriageway where the rider is. Surely you of all people wouldn't be advocating that the cyclist should carry on on the pavement after the cycle lane has stopped? If you actually watch to the end of the video you will see the other "cyclist using it fine" having to come to a complete stop and wait to cross both the traffic lanes to join the camera cyclist in order to carry on their journey. This camera cyclist, by the way, is a huge advocate of that cycle lane and regularly posts videos of himself using it, if it was usable there he would be on it. 

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
1 like

Please see what I wrote to the point that along that busy section of road it is clearly open and being used, enabling someone cycling with a child to avoid the situation they put themselves in, at least up to that point. It's not rocket surgery.

Edit (hope that is OK) just to add, no where am I advocating cycling on the pavement, so quit strawmanning. Anyone with an ounce of common sense and a set of eyes can see at the point the lane closes there is a zebra crossing that would allow them to cross safely and join the carriageway.

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Rendel Harris replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
4 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

Please see what I wrote to the point that along that busy section of road it is clearly open and being used, enabling someone cycling with a child to avoid the situation they put themselves in, at least up to that point. It's not rocket surgery.

So a cyclist knowing that the cycle lane is coming to an end in about 50 yards must ride right up to the point at which the cycle lane ends and then across two lanes of busy traffic in order to progress, rather than perfectly legally switch to the road in advance in a safer place to do so. And if they do decide to use the road then it serves them right if they encounter motorists who are breaking the law, that will be their fault and not the motorists'?

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hawkinspeter replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
5 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

So a cyclist knowing that the cycle lane is coming to an end in about 50 yards must ride right up to the point at which the cycle lane ends and then across two lanes of busy traffic in order to progress, rather than perfectly legally switch to the road in advance in a safer place to do so. And if they do decide to use the road then it serves them right if they encounter motorists who are breaking the law, that will be their fault and not the motorists'?

Maybe the motorists want to punish cyclists that look ahead and anticipate problems? They're probably envious as they can only see up to the car in front and no further.

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
1 like

Please point out where I have said they "must" use the cycle lane?

As the highway code states, and am sure you are aware?

"Rule 61

Cycle Routes and Other Facilities. Cycle lanes are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway (see Rule 140). Use facilities such as cycle lanes and tracks, advanced stop lines and toucan crossings (see Rules 62 and 73) where they make your journey safer and easier. This will depend on your experience and skills and the situation at the time. While such facilities are provided for reasons of safety, cyclists may exercise their judgement and are not obliged to use them."

As noted there is a perfectly usable section of cycle lane that would avoid that section of road and the conflict. This situation ultimately isn't even about them being on a bike, in a car you often face the same impatience. So why as a more vulnerable road user put yourself in that situation in the first place, and then even try and force your way through? 

I also take back what I said about it being someone with a child, on second look it was another adult and the camera cyclists passed them with oncoming traffic like an absolute dick.

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Rendel Harris replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
3 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

Edit (hope that is OK) just to add, no where am I advocating cycling on the pavement, so quit strawmanning. Anyone with an ounce of common sense and a set of eyes can see at the point the lane closes there is a zebra crossing that would allow them to cross safely and join the carriageway.

So, to use that zebra crossing cyclists would have to dismount, push twenty yards up the pavement to the zebra crossing, cross over the first zebra to the island, wait for someone to stop for them on the second zebra, cross over again and then push further down the road to find a safe place to rejoin, rather than join the carriageway perfectly legally and safely a little further down. Why exactly should they have to do this, so that motorists can carry on using the oncoming traffic lane to overtake the bus instead of waiting a few seconds themselves? Extraordinary how ingrained it is in the minds of some people that the car is king and that cyclists should be doing everything possible to stay out of their way, to the extent of eschewing perfectly safe (if motorists are prepared to follow the law) legal and sensible riding practices in order to expose themselves to considerable inconvenience just in case they get in the way of any motorists who decide that they would like to break the laws regarding overtaking.

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
1 like

Rendel Harris wrote:

So, to use that zebra crossing cyclists would have to dismount, push twenty yards up the pavement to the zebra crossing, cross over the first zebra to the island, wait for someone to stop for them on the second zebra, cross over again and then push further down the road to find a safe place to rejoin, rather than join the carriageway perfectly legally and safely a little further down. Why exactly should they have to do this, so that motorists can carry on using the oncoming traffic lane to overtake the bus instead of waiting a few seconds themselves? Extraordinary how ingrained it is in the minds of some people that the car is king and that cyclists should be doing everything possible to stay out of their way, to the extent of eschewing perfectly safe (if motorists are prepared to follow the law) legal and sensible riding practices in order to expose themselves to considerable inconvenience just in case they get in the way of any motorists who decide that they would like to break the laws regarding overtaking.

And your point is? Sometimes, it makes sense to do this. Unless you want a bit of fame on X formerly twatter I guess.

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
0 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

Adam Sutton wrote:

There was also another cyclist using it fine, go figure.

Please see what I wrote above, the cycle lane stops just after where the bus has stopped and the only way of progressing from there is to cross both the traffic lanes and ride in the carriageway where the rider is. Surely you of all people wouldn't be advocating that the cyclist should carry on on the pavement after the cycle lane has stopped? If you actually watch to the end of the video you will see the other "cyclist using it fine" having to come to a complete stop and wait to cross both the traffic lanes to join the camera cyclist in order to carry on their journey. This camera cyclist, by the way, is a huge advocate of that cycle lane and regularly posts videos of himself using it, if it was usable there he would be on it. 

Thanks for showing the cyclist using it. wink

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Rendel Harris replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
3 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

Thanks for showing the cyclist using it. wink

You're welcome, it also shows the cyclist having to come to a complete stop and wait to continue their journey whilst the camera cyclist, even though impeded by the motorists making an illegal overtake on the bus, carries on their journey.

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
2 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

You're welcome, it also shows the cyclist having to come to a complete stop and wait to continue their journey whilst the camera cyclist, even though impeded by the motorists making an illegal overtake on the bus, carries on their journey.

Oh good grief having to stop! Same as you would at junctions, lights and crossings. Sometimes you have to stop. Again, none of this is rocket surgery. It's a little long forgotten thing called common sense.

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Rendel Harris replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
4 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

Oh good grief having to stop! Same as you would at junctions, lights and crossings. Sometimes you have to stop. Again, none of this is rocket surgery. It's a little long forgotten thing called common sense.

You have to stop a lot commuting along that path, so why would you add to the amount of time you have to stop when there is a perfectly legal and (if the drivers were driving legally) safe alternative to use on the road? It's so telling of your attitude towards cyclists and cycling that you have made six posts on this issue castigating the cyclist for their perfectly legal behaviour and you have not mentioned a single time the motorists driving illegally.

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
1 like

Rendel Harris wrote:

You have to stop a lot commuting along that path, so why would you add to the amount of time you have to stop when there is a perfectly legal and (if the drivers were driving legally) safe alternative to use on the road? It's so telling of your attitude towards cyclists and cycling that you have made six posts on this issue castigating the cyclist for their perfectly legal behaviour and you have not mentioned a single time the motorists driving illegally.

Actually all I did at the start was point out that the cycle lane was usable. I have expressed an opinion that it would be preferable in that given situation. The only comment I have made that could be claimed to be "castigation" is their poor pass of the other cyclist.

You have once again come back with straw man arguments, and once again are insistent that I have an attitude against cyclists. 

Yes the drivers are pulling an illegal pass, that much is bleedin' obvious and doesn't actually need to be stated, hence my comment;

"This situation ultimately isn't even about them being on a bike, in a car you often face the same impatience. So why as a more vulnerable road user put yourself in that situation in the first place, and then even try and force your way through? "

It is little more than opinion and is as valid as yours, please take that bug out your arse you seem to have towards me. 

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
0 likes

Adam, at some point you realise that all Rendel is here for is to argue, and promote traffic to the site as part of the road.cc staff. 

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Rendel Harris replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 3 months ago
2 likes

Left_is_for_Losers wrote:

Adam, at some point you realise that all Rendel is here for is to argue, and promote traffic to the site as part of the road.cc staff. 

road.cc editors, as I've been a part of your staff for so long can somebody tell me where my paycheque is please?

Get well soon Loser. xxx

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Rendel Harris replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
2 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

please take that bug out your arse you seem to have towards me. 

Charming expression. Perhaps when you take the elephant-sized one you have about cyclists going about their lawful occasions on the road out of yours?

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Adam Sutton replied to Rendel Harris | 3 months ago
1 like

Truth hurts I guess. And apologies for merely mentioning a usable cycle lane, had I known it would trigger you so much I wouldn't have.

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hawkinspeter replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
3 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

Oh good grief having to stop! Same as you would at junctions, lights and crossings. Sometimes you have to stop. Again, none of this is rocket surgery. It's a little long forgotten thing called common sense.

Common sense like not overtaking a bus when there's a cyclist approaching and an overtake would be dangerous or at least force the cyclist to stop to avoid a collision?

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Adam Sutton replied to hawkinspeter | 3 months ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Common sense like not overtaking a bus when there's a cyclist approaching and an overtake would be dangerous or at least force the cyclist to stop to avoid a collision?

What's your point? I am not denying that, common sense by and large has gone out the window and is why either cycling or driving I use a camera.

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hawkinspeter replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
3 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Common sense like not overtaking a bus when there's a cyclist approaching and an overtake would be dangerous or at least force the cyclist to stop to avoid a collision?

What's your point? I am not denying that, common sense by and large has gone out the window and is why either cycling or driving I use a camera.

My point is that you're only calling for "common sense" from the cyclist when the far more appropriate (and useful) response is that the illegal overtaking is the problem. "Common sense" would be the cyclist assuming that the public road was for use by all traffic and not be put in danger by self-entitled motorists who can't even wait for a couple of seconds. On one side you have safe, reasonable behaviour and on the other side you have dangerous selfish behaviour and you seem to think that it's the cyclist that needs to change.

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Adam Sutton replied to hawkinspeter | 3 months ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

My point is that you're only calling for "common sense" from the cyclist when the far more appropriate (and useful) response is that the illegal overtaking is the problem. "Common sense" would be the cyclist assuming that the public road was for use by all traffic and not be put in danger by self-entitled motorists who can't even wait for a couple of seconds. On one side you have safe, reasonable behaviour and on the other side you have dangerous selfish behaviour and you seem to think that it's the cyclist that needs to change.

I haven't really, but whatever straw man helps you and Rendy out, sure. 

In terms of "common sense" This is nothing more than having the sense to use a route that has the least risk. Same as on my commute I take a route that probably add about 1-2 miles, but both misses a big hill (so timewise not much different) and also a main road that is heavily used by HGV traffic. Sure it is perfectly legal and right that someone could use that route, but common sense would avoid it.

This article is from the cycilsts perspective, is it not? So expect a viewpoint from that perspective. 

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hawkinspeter replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
2 likes

Adam Sutton wrote:

I haven't really, but whatever straw man helps you and Rendy out, sure. 

In terms of "common sense" This is nothing more than having the sense to use a route that has the least risk. Same as on my commute I take a route that probably add about 1-2 miles, but both misses a big hill (so timewise not much different) and also a main road that is heavily used by HGV traffic. Sure it is perfectly legal and right that someone could use that route, but common sense would avoid it.

This article is from the cycilsts perspective, is it not? So expect a viewpoint from that perspective. 

Have I misunderstood you? I'm not intending to build a straw man and don't see that I am.

You made a comment about the cyclist using the bike lane and having to stop frequently being "common sense" and I responded that the best use of common sense would be by the motorists - after all it's the motorists that are causing the issue and the danger.

Anyhow, there's often a trade-off between safety and convenience and people will have different appetites for perceived danger. If you prefer to stick to bike lanes, then that's fine and dandy, but it smacks of victim blaming to decry a cyclist using the road as the being dangerous when the danger is entirely manufactured by poor driving. Yes it happens and the cyclist avoided a collision, but not everyone wants to take a different route just because traffic laws are poorly enforced.

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Adam Sutton replied to hawkinspeter | 3 months ago
0 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Have I misunderstood you? I'm not intending to build a straw man and don't see that I am.

You made a comment about the cyclist using the bike lane and having to stop frequently being "common sense" and I responded that the best use of common sense would be by the motorists - after all it's the motorists that are causing the issue and the danger.

Anyhow, there's often a trade-off between safety and convenience and people will have different appetites for perceived danger. If you prefer to stick to bike lanes, then that's fine and dandy, but it smacks of victim blaming to decry a cyclist using the road as the being dangerous when the danger is entirely manufactured by poor driving. Yes it happens and the cyclist avoided a collision, but not everyone wants to take a different route just because traffic laws are poorly enforced.

I am hardly "decrying" or "victim blaming" jesus wept. 

As you just stated "people will have different appetites for perceived danger." All I have done is point out the cycle lane was clearly usable along that stretch and could avoid the situation.

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hawkinspeter replied to Adam Sutton | 3 months ago
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Adam Sutton wrote:

I am hardly "decrying" or "victim blaming" jesus wept. 

As you just stated "people will have different appetites for perceived danger." All I have done is point out the cycle lane was clearly usable along that stretch and could avoid the situation.

But you did write this:

Adam Sutton wrote:

As noted there is a perfectly usable section of cycle lane that would avoid that section of road and the conflict. This situation ultimately isn't even about them being on a bike, in a car you often face the same impatience. So why as a more vulnerable road user put yourself in that situation in the first place, and then even try and force your way through?

I'm simply pointing out the asymmetry in your treatment of cyclists and motorists. If a motorist had to emergency brake because some idiot was overtaking a bus stupidly, then would you be pointing out that there's other routes that they could have been driving?

You're questioning the judgement of the cyclist for daring to use the road and the only problem with taking that route is the actions of one particular motorist. Do you see why I would interpret your comment as victim blaming?

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Adam Sutton replied to hawkinspeter | 3 months ago
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hawkinspeter wrote:

Do you see why I would interpret your comment as victim blaming?

Yes I do, because like Rendy you cannot simply accept a simple statement or viewpoint that differs from your own hard set viewpoints, and therefore have to create counterpoints to things you want me to have said and blow things out of proportion.

I am going to end this by simply stating in reference to one of the tangents that has been locked on repeatedly. With regards expecting a cyclists to stop, dismount and rejoin the carriageway utilizing the crossing. The very fact that there is a crossing there means there is a degree of probabilty that cycling on the road you would have to stop, so this is hardly the huge incovenience it is being touted as.

 

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