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Ten minutes to walk 500m?!

This does back up what I've been saying for a while in that a worrying amount of people in this country would drive to their own fridge if they could, and that simply providing good alternatives to driving doesn't cut it. People making a one-mile journey already have a free alternative to driving glued to the ends of their legs, yet they would rather pay for petrol and sit in traffic.

You say "lazy", I say "efficient"... but yes, people don't get the "time efficiency" or "consistent trip time" you get with cycling (where you're not subject to all the cars and traffic lights that is).

Change comes in baby steps.  Knowing / hearing about it, seeing it, knowing lots of other people do it, having friends or family or role modesl who do it ... and then there's making cycling a range of journeys (can't be just one or two) easier than driving.  Part of the last is making the driving less convenient, at least initially.

chrisonatrike wrote:

You say "lazy", I say "efficient"...

I suppose, but I'm also looking at it from an environmental persective too, by which someone using a car for what should be a five minute walk to the corner shop for some milk isn't just "lazy" it's utterly selfish.

chrisonatrike wrote:

...Part of the last is making the driving less convenient, at least initially.

100% agree with this, and it's something else I've been saying for a while. Providing active travel alternatives isn't enough by itself - I bet if most people had an uniterupted cycle lane from their front door all the way to their office, they'd still drive. At the same time as we improve public transport and active travel infra, we also need to take steps to make driving much less appealing/bearable.

BalladOfStruth wrote:

At the same time as we improve public transport and active travel infra, we also need to take steps to make driving much less appealing/bearable.

If we had mandatory drug / alcohol / fatigue sensors in cars that needed 5 mins to complete tests before driving was possible, might that help? My jalopy has corrosion* on a rear wheel that means the tyre needs pumping before almost every journey, which is a great disincentive to use the wretched thing.

*Either that or a latex tube.

We need to get to a point where society accepts that the able bodied should not be driving less than a mile. Selfish prick shaming. The trouble is we've become so neo liberal and Thatcher's 'no such thing as society', that people think they can do what they like. So government sets up ATE to do the messaging but stays well below the parapet themselves.

BalladOfStruth wrote:

At the same time as we improve public transport and active travel infra, we also need to take steps to make driving much less appealing/bearable.

I found my Father's third heart attack and ten medicines daily to be fairly convincing evidence that active travel was my priority.

3.5 years C2W burnt more than 500,000 calories, provided 38bpm resting heart rate, and pulmonary embolism, but that's another story...

BalladOfStruth wrote:

Ten minutes to walk 500m?!

The average walking pace is 2.5 to 4 mph, so between 4.7 and 7.5 minutes to cover 500m

BalladOfStruth wrote:

worrying amount of people in this country would drive to their own fridge......they would rather pay for petrol and sit in traffic.

Point proved at any McDonalds drive through, people will rather sit in their car in the queue, engine running, than park up and walk to 25metres to get served quicker inside.

Just can't get them out of their cars

wycombewheeler wrote:

The average walking pace is 2.5 to 4 mph

A range can't really be 'the average'. Looks like that's Nike misquoting a CDC report, which defines walking 2.5 to 4 mph as 'moderate activity'. That doesn't say anything about the average speed at which people (or even just Americans) actually walk.

brooksby wrote:

Quote:

The maximum distance we are prepared to walk is just 537 metres

Huh - I'd swear I'd walked more than that, loads of times. I guess I must have been mistaken.

mdavidford wrote:

Huh - I'd swear I'd walked more than that, loads of times. I guess I must have been mistaken.

Short legs?

In a motel in the USA I joked to the receptionist that we English thought Americans were so lazy they probably drove to the Burger King on the other side of the road. Turns out that people did!  It's about 500ft/152m

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Burger+King/Super+8+by+Wyndham+Oneida+...@43.0784894,-75.646043,343m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d976e0b4122881:0xb0b71c5deb47bd10!2m2!1d-75.6455964!2d43.0791284!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d976e0982b22f7:0x809fa273bf348b57!2m2!1d-75.644857!2d43.0777874!3e0?hl=en-GB

Pal of mine who lives in Washington DC tells me that neighbours look at him with horror when he says he's walking to the shops - "But it's way over half a mile! And then you'll have to walk back!" They actually offer to give him a ride; when he says he just enjoys a stroll they shake their heads at his Limey eccentricities.

Rendel Harris wrote:

Pal of mine who lives in Washington DC tells me that neighbours look at him with horror when he says he's walking to the shops - "But it's way over half a mile! And then you'll have to walk back!" They actually offer to give him a ride; when he says he just enjoys a stroll they shake their heads at his Limey eccentricities.

Is it somehow inherited? Because as a US transplant I walk way more than the majority of my American friends and colleagues would be willing to. Maybe it's because I was raised doing it. My dad used to have us walk home from church sometimes in the US, not every time, but I doubt anyone else was doing it. I remember it as a long walk when I was 8-10 years old, but looking now it was 1.7 miles. That's about the same as I often walk to the pub now, although I usually cycle.

I've known several Americans who have become keen pedestrians since they came to the UK – same goes for some I've known in Paris – simply because it's actually feasible to do. I remember a girl from Texas I knew in Paris years ago who absolutely eulogised the fact that she could get all her groceries just by walking around her neighbourhood, apparently in her hometown the only available options for shopping were edge-of-town malls reached by multiple lane highways with no sidewalk, literally you had to go in a car or walk along the culvert at the edge of the highway!

Rendel Harris wrote:

I've known several Americans who have become keen pedestrians since they came to the UK – same goes for some I've known in Paris – simply because it's actually feasible to do. I remember a girl from Texas I knew in Paris years ago who absolutely eulogised the fact that she could get all her groceries just by walking around her neighbourhood, apparently in her hometown the only available options for shopping were edge-of-town malls reached by multiple lane highways with no sidewalk, literally you had to go in a car or walk along the culvert at the edge of the highway!

I wish I could say it's walkable where I am, but it's not really. Lots of roads lack any pavement at all, even in residential subdivisions full of culs-de-sac. Every time I go anywhere really I have to cross this stroad, with five lanes of 50 MPH traffic.

https://goo.gl/maps/b5GigLCFyGk1PXoK9

Lord have mercy, that's what you call a really autocentric neighbourhood!

Rendel Harris wrote:

Lord have mercy, that's what you call a really autocentric neighbourhood!

Economic and planning put High Street against out of town development for a similar outcome in the UK. Active Travel must be supported by planning too.

Finland was smart enough to look at their health data and decide that all new build must include highways with separate side lanes for active travel; ski, skate, sledge, run, walk, cycle, scoot. Twenty years later improved health confirms that opportunity is a great investment. Some political courage and consensus required but absolutely possible.

A common trope - but it's often true.  Crossing some US roads - even a few UK ones - is practically impossible.  These "breaks in the network" / "barriers to access" are not just inconvenient for disabled people, or people with young children, or if you have a non-standard cycle.  They can make a journey impossible.

NotJustBikes has a good video presenting a typical story of this kind.

chrisonatrike wrote:

 Crossing some US roads - even a few UK ones - is practically impossible.  .......  They can make a journey impossible.

I found this in Atlanta - I was there on business for a week and my usual thing is to walk around a new place.  It was less than a mile from the hotel to the office, but that involved crossing three eight-lane roads.  It was a very lonely experience, made all the worse by unfamiliarity with the prevailing 'right on red' rules.  Additionally, there were so few pedestrians that you had to be quick off the mark before they changed to let the cars go before they got fed up waiting for no-one.  Electric scooters were the thing for those not in cars (no 'scooting' involved - just 'twist and go')

That was ... horrific.