Driver who killed cyclist was using hands-free phone at time

Well the bar is pretty low.  Apparently Ken started it, Boris took credit but fumbled about with it (superhypeways).  What do Londoners think of Sadiq?  I heard that very little happened to start with it.  Although he has acted genuinely frustrated by (some of) the boroughs (Ken and Chelsey!).  I understand that the boroughs impose a fairly hard limit on what could be done centrally.  On the other hand some seem to be getting on with it.

I'm all for this.  But I'd be hugely surprised by any mainstream politician of any stripe creating a major "active travel" change for transport *.  However I believe mass cycling is several open goals - so what's the issue?  Two: lots of resistance to a "push" e.g. "our streets are too narrow!"  Worse - can you think of a simple commercial "pull"?  Unlike e.g. cars 2.0 there are currently a lack of ways that someone can get very rich doing "cycling" (pull).  Well, eBikes and scooters are newer and more profitable - but much less than cars.  Also it seems unlikely to be a draw for existing big companies.  So there is negligable lobbying / incentivising decision makers (e.g. obvious large number of new jobs in their constituencies).  In the simple "cost / benefit figures" most people are going to look at cycling looks like a handout.  To a (currently) tiny percentage of people.

* Manchester seems to have stalled despite a very promising prospectus.  Here in Edinburgh the rate we're going seems a combination of complacency and being slowed to a crawl by the obstacles.

Wasn't it a Labour MP who recently asked a question in Parliament regarding mandatory use of bells?  There are 32+ million cars in the UK.  They are owned mostly by voters.  It is not just the Tories who are acutely aware of this fact.

Rupa Huq is a Labour MP too isnt she ? https://road.cc/content/news/labour-mp-steps-campaign-vs-low-traffic-nei...

and I know Labour councillors in Labour Ipswich, refer to cyclists/cycling as a "green blob" whilst demanding free parking & more roads for cars be built, whilst trying to stymie the Tory led county councils cycling infra improvements.

that said, same Tory led county council then just approved the removal of some protected cycle lanes in Bury St Edmunds they put in during the pandemic (add to the list of active travel funded stuff taken out), just over a week after the town hosted the stage finish to the Women's tour. https://www.suffolknews.co.uk/bury-st-edmunds/news/controversial-cycle-l...

so its not a party political thing at all, theyre all as bad as each other when it comes down to it

What in your view is the difference between someone taking a handsfree call vs having a conversation with the person next to them or trying to discipline their children in the back of the car? Personally I don't think that handsfree calls are a big issue in of themselves, its people who don't pay attention to the road. Most of the people that I see driving like utter twats are not talking or doing anything else, they are just on autopilot or not really looking for anything but other cars if that. 

This is a genuine question btw, i'm not defending bad driving, I just can't see much difference between someone talking handsfree vs talking to people in the car. 

I'm always absolutely astounded at the number of times a car clearly just hasn't noticed me even though it appears they are looking at the road. A 6'2" guy in a bright orange top with pasty skin and black bib shorts. There is something in that outfit that should catch anyones eye and yet people are oblivious. 

mctrials23 wrote:

What in your view is the difference between someone taking a handsfree call vs having a conversation with the person next to them or trying to discipline their children in the back of the car? Personally I don't think that handsfree calls are a big issue in of themselves, its people who don't pay attention to the road. Most of the people that I see driving like utter twats are not talking or doing anything else, they are just on autopilot or not really looking for anything but other cars if that. 

This is a genuine question btw, i'm not defending bad driving, I just can't see much difference between someone talking handsfree vs talking to people in the car. 

I'm always absolutely astounded at the number of times a car clearly just hasn't noticed me even though it appears they are looking at the road. A 6'2" guy in a bright orange top with pasty skin and black bib shorts. There is something in that outfit that should catch anyones eye and yet people are oblivious. 

There's a study here though it doesn't directly compare hands-free with passenger conversations: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/talking-while-driving-is-incredibly-dangerous-even-when-using-handsfree-new-study-finds-a7070486.html

Also one here: https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2018/03/10/Talking-while-driving-on-cell-or-to-passenger-threatens-road-safety-review/5411520710885/

Basically, passengers are likely to moderate their conversation if the situation looks more demanding for the driver, but talking whilst driving does seem to have a distracting effect.

And just as importantly, the driver will find it much easier to let the conversation drop as the road demands it when the other party is sat next to them. Just try going silent at random moments whilst having a phone conversation - it takes an iron will, and the other party will find it quite disconcerting too.

Sriracha wrote:

And just as importantly, the driver will find it much easier to let the conversation drop as the road demands it when the other party is sat next to them. Just try going silent at random moments whilst having a phone conversation - it takes an iron will, and the other party will find it quite disconcerting too.

This is why I only ever do video calls when driving and flip the camera so the person on the other end can see the road ahead too.

(only joking!) I do think a short hands free call made at the right moment is generally ok. But picking up an inbound call during difficult road conditions, or having a lengthy chat, can be very dangerous. I really hope the nature of the call was investigated and the driver asked to explain exactly why they were on the phone when navigating a complex junction just off a high speed road.

I wonder if this aspect of car control is covered in the driving test? "When I say the words ring-ring, I'd like you to call your Mum with the in-car handsfree system and tell her you'll be late for tea."? It sounds flippant, but it seems so accepted by the courts that the driver will be able to perform this task, yet they've probably never had to demonstrate any sort of competency.

Quote:

I wonder if this aspect of car control is covered in the driving test?

Amen.  But - well it would be too subjective.  The conversation would likely be banal but if (realistically) it was as emotionally distracting as a comment thread here people would say "not fair".  Also - maybe they couldn't get a risk assessment past for that? 

HoarseMann wrote:

the driver asked to explain exactly why they were on the phone when navigating a complex junction just off a high speed road.

I wonder if this aspect of car control is covered in the driving test?

Good idea - maybe the driving test should include a stage in a driving simulator where the candidate is required to engage in a cognitively demanding phone conversation whilst simultaneously negotiating difficult traffic, with an unexpected random event thrown in for good measure.

You might be joking but since we have switched to Teams for workstuff, I have hung up on two meetings when it was apparent someone was driving whilst having a video call. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

You might be joking but since we have switched to Teams for workstuff, I have hung up on two meetings when it was apparent someone was driving whilst having a video call. 

When I worked for the local council, I had reason to call the head of a small local bus company, and when I asked him why there was so much noise in the background, he said it was because he was driving a school bus.  I rang off immediately.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

You might be joking but since we have switched to Teams for workstuff, I have hung up on two meetings when it was apparent someone was driving whilst having a video call. 

Does the company have a policy on this? If not, they should.

Unfortunately, there seems to be no relenting in the rush to equip new vehicles with large screens filled with data vying for the driver's attention.

I am very mixed about the next generation of Car Play. I can see the benefit in having a consistent user interface experience across different vehicle brands (and let's face it, car manufacturers are rubbish at software). But it looks way too complex... https://youtu.be/q5D55G7Ejs8?t=2327

hawkinspeter wrote:

Basically, passengers are likely to moderate their conversation if the situation looks more demanding for the driver, but talking whilst driving does seem to have a distracting effect.

100% this. I dont drive, but as a passenger if a situation requires a bit of concentration I shut up, become an extra pair of eyes on awkward junctions if needed.
Someone on the other end of a phone isn't aware of what's going on and may become more of a distraction.

mctrials23 wrote:

What in your view is the difference between someone taking a handsfree call vs having a conversation with the person next to them or trying to discipline their children in the back of the car?

There is only one thing to give your full attention to while behind the wheel and that is driving. I try not to talk at all to drivers when I'm a passenger and I certainly NEVER look at them as human nature is to look back. It doesn't matter what the distraction is, a split second of inattention is all it takes to kill another human being, why take the risk? 

Finding yourself distracted by conversation while driving?  Try switching to a cattle truck or hearse - or maybe one of the UK's replacement armoured vehicles!

chrisonatrike wrote:

Finding yourself distracted by conversation while driving?  Try switching to a ... hearse

Yes, that's sometimes how it happens.

eburtthebike wrote:

 God, but I hate this bunch of self-serving, entitled, arrogant bunch of pig-ignorant ministers and their sycophantic supporters.

Blimey, that was a sudden rush to judgement of people of whom you know only a single fact.  I wouldn't want you on my jury.

mike the bike wrote:

eburtthebike wrote:

 God, but I hate this bunch of self-serving, entitled, arrogant bunch of pig-ignorant ministers and their sycophantic supporters.

Blimey, that was a sudden rush to judgement of people of whom you know only a single fact.  I wouldn't want you on my jury.

Thanks.  We know literally thousands of facts about this PM and his cabinet, and I try to make reasoned judgments on the facts; I'm pretty sure that what I said nailed it.

First comment that comes up - "but cyclists..."

They don't fucking kill people daily. How hard is this?