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Is pro cycling finished

by ianrobo
Fri, Jun 05, 2015 19:19
47

Today we have learnt the bio passport case against Kreuziger has been dropped due to 'new information'. We saw on Wednesday it is next to useless to catch macrodosing and of course Astana as seen in the giro are as dirty as hell with those performances.

I love watching the pro game but is there any point any more ?

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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ianrobo | 8 years ago
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This is the official reason that Kreuziger got away with it, anyone would know the thyroid 'problem' is something the BBC exposed ...

Earlier this week iDNES Sport reported that Kreuziger's tests showed that the changes in his biological passport values were due to extreme physical exertion combined with hypothyroidism, which he treats with a synthetic hormone L-Thyroxine.

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daddyELVIS replied to ianrobo | 8 years ago
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ianrobo wrote:

This is the official reason that Kreuziger got away with it, anyone would know the thyroid 'problem' is something the BBC exposed ...

Earlier this week iDNES Sport reported that Kreuziger's tests showed that the changes in his biological passport values were due to extreme physical exertion combined with hypothyroidism, which he treats with a synthetic hormone L-Thyroxine.

Another example of TUE abuse!

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ianrobo replied to daddyELVIS | 8 years ago
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daddyELVIS wrote:
ianrobo wrote:

This is the official reason that Kreuziger got away with it, anyone would know the thyroid 'problem' is something the BBC exposed ...

Earlier this week iDNES Sport reported that Kreuziger's tests showed that the changes in his biological passport values were due to extreme physical exertion combined with hypothyroidism, which he treats with a synthetic hormone L-Thyroxine.

Another example of TUE abuse!

yep had this discussion a while back but if you are not fit enough to ride, you do not if a TUE is needed. it said he needed the TUE for 'extreme physical exertion' FFS thats the sport and if not got enough for it, tough ...

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daddyELVIS replied to ianrobo | 8 years ago
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ianrobo wrote:
daddyELVIS wrote:
ianrobo wrote:

This is the official reason that Kreuziger got away with it, anyone would know the thyroid 'problem' is something the BBC exposed ...

Earlier this week iDNES Sport reported that Kreuziger's tests showed that the changes in his biological passport values were due to extreme physical exertion combined with hypothyroidism, which he treats with a synthetic hormone L-Thyroxine.

Another example of TUE abuse!

yep had this discussion a while back but if you are not fit enough to ride, you do not if a TUE is needed. it said he needed the TUE for 'extreme physical exertion' FFS thats the sport and if not got enough for it, tough ...

...but they're all doped to some extent - some full-on, some using TUE grey areas (i.e. Legal doping), so no completely clean rider will have 'enough' to pull at the front of a top-class peloton. It's the same in most top-class sports, and horse-racing too! It's the way it is - it's an industry! - developed over many generations to where it is today. How you reverse it, who knows? Certainly not by banning the odd athlete here and there, and not by making one huge athlete a scape-goat and announcing a 'new clean era' for everything tha came after! It's a very complex issue, and a lot would need to come out in the open to even start to address it - but, anyone with a modicum of common-sense knows that top-level sport cannot be made up of athletes with a genuine need for asthma & thyroid drugs. What happened to all the athletes with 100% health? - come on, this can't get better until we all stop pretending!

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Kadinkski replied to daddyELVIS | 8 years ago
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daddyELVIS wrote:

...but they're all doped to some extent - some full-on, some using TUE grey areas (i.e. Legal doping), so no completely clean rider will have 'enough' to pull at the front of a top-class peloton. It's the same in most top-class sports, and horse-racing too! It's the way it is - it's an industry! - developed over many generations to where it is today. How you reverse it, who knows? Certainly not by banning the odd athlete here and there, and not by making one huge athlete a scape-goat and announcing a 'new clean era' for everything tha came after! It's a very complex issue, and a lot would need to come out in the open to even start to address it - but, anyone with a modicum of common-sense knows that top-level sport cannot be made up of athletes with a genuine need for asthma & thyroid drugs. What happened to all the athletes with 100% health? - come on, this can't get better until we all stop pretending!

Yep. In my opinion the science behind identifying athletes with the optimal physiology along with training methods and nutrition has created a plateau for endurance sports; any athlete that has the optimum genetics, discipline and desire to train correctly, and access to a team of dieticians, physios, phycologists etc will reach that plateau and they'll all be within 1% (maybe 2% at a stretch) of each other on any given day.

So if you've reached this plateau yet the winners are consistently 5% ahead of you, and you want to win that gold medal or yellow jersey, what are you going to do? Of course you're going to dope, its the only logical choice - you know those people beating your arse are doing it and your short career and earning potential rely solely on winning that gold medal, on being a star. They're not bad people, its the only thing standing between a successful career or just making up the numbers. In that position I'd do it - theres zero chance of being caught if you do it properly and the rewards are astronomical.

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CXR94Di2 | 8 years ago
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watching a drugged up pro cycle up hills at ridiculous speed is jaw dropping.

But I actually derive more pleasure watching them sweat gurn and struggle to climb hills, because that is what happens to me. I feel a little like a pro and I think of them as ordinary well trained humans.

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hsiaolc | 8 years ago
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In fairness I rather have a clean sport because that is the pure essence of sport together with integrity and maybe that's why I don't really watch football anymore.

If they all take drugs I probably wouldn't watch them and I said what I said earlier is because if you can't catch them taking drugs or cheating then whats the point of putting on the restriction in the first place. Worst, the ones who does take drugs and get away then it gives false impression for all everyone else thinking the sport is clean he is clean, so I rather give the green light to all (frustration talking).

The solution is for them to find better ways to catch the cheat and put an end to it.

But to the OPs original question if they continue down this path I probably wouldn't watch any races at all and I wouldn't miss it. There are other sports out there to watch that is clean (I hope).

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ianrobo replied to hsiaolc | 8 years ago
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hsiaolc wrote:

There are other sports out there to watch that is clean (I hope).

I would question just how many are at the top level, none of the major ones are - football, rugby, tennis, cycling, athletics

Is cricket ?

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ianrobo | 8 years ago
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true but I was inspired to cycle watching TDF coverage in the 90's. I was inspired so much I am climbing the big mountains in a couple of weeks time.

Now at the time I was naive and thought it was clean, obviously not but surely we want people to be inspired by what they see and not cynical ?

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crikey | 8 years ago
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But we have been here before, many, many times.
If you like to watch pro-cycling, watch it. If you feel it is unfair, cheating, unjust, improper and so on, then don't watch it.

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ianrobo | 8 years ago
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as you say u can do that and I watch the Giro and see Astana dominate at the top with Contador and then look at the others who can not and think this is not sport at all.

Entertainment maybe sport no chance.

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crikey | 8 years ago
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Quote:

How about those riders who want to be clean and win clean

The simplistic answer is that they simply shouldn't take drugs, then everything will be ok.

The realistic answer is more complex...

...but it's not one I feel the need to provide, so I will continue to view pro cycling as entertainment rather than as any kind of heroic shining example of sporting excellence.

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ianrobo | 8 years ago
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thats fine if it did not go downwards to people younger, not in control etc who see these as heroes. How about those riders who want to be clean and win clean ?

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crikey | 8 years ago
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It's entertainment.
It was originally thought up as a way to sell you stuff.
It is still a way to sell you stuff.

Pro cycling is like sausages; I like sausages but I don't want to know how they are made.
Watching Pro cycling is like watching Game of Thrones; best not to get attached to any of the characters.

I am not blasé about drug use in any sport, but after years of this kind of stuff it's not something I can get excited about.

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ianrobo | 8 years ago
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disagree totally you can not have that as it will go lower and lower down the chain as being acceptable and you will get it at Cat4 racing with no medical supervision as at the top.

It has to be a total ban for life if caught and whistle blowers given an amnesty if they cough up.

WADA will catch up as they always do and of course now we can go back and test re test the blood.

But is the will there across all sports because the title of this could be is Pro Sport finished as does anyone doubt any endurance sport where large financial gains is not having this.

Anyone see Serena Williams's marvellous recovery yesterday, anyone think that was not natural ?

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glynr36 replied to ianrobo | 8 years ago
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ianrobo wrote:

disagree totally you can not have that as it will go lower and lower down the chain as being acceptable and you will get it at Cat4 racing with no medical supervision as at the top.

Don't talk bollocks.
You are not going to get someone doing EPO for a local 4th.

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hsiaolc | 8 years ago
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Like I said before let them take the drugs and let them perform at their highest level.
If they are willing to take the risk of dying then its their choice.
Obviously catching them is not working so have to think outside the box.

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