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TECH NEWS
5 things I learnt riding the new Giant Defy
Last month Giant revealed their new Defy, which has been redesigned with disc brakes on all the carbon models. I was at the launch and spent two days riding the bike around the beautiful roads of Pitlochry, Scotland to find out if this successor to an already very popular bike is a worthy replacement.
The Defy is really comfortable
Not only has the new Defy undergone a huge disc brake redesign, but the frame has been engineered to offer more comfort than the old bike. The biggest change is the new D-Fuse integrated seatmast, a d-shaped tube, slender in profile, is claimed to offer in the region of 11mm of deflection. Not only that, but the seatstays are as skinny as they can be and still be hollow, made easier with the absence of the brake calipers, and the top tube shares the same profile as the seatmast.
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These changes all add up to create a hugely comfortable bike. There’s enough deflection to take care of the bigger impacts, say clipping the edge of a pothole or riding into a sunken manhole cover. Smaller stuff, rippled and corrugated tarmac, is taken care of impressively well. But it’s really the bigger impacts the Defy most noticeably filters out, yet it’s not soft and floppy - there is still a high level of stiffness in the frame and fork so it feels taut and precise.
It’s no slouch
The Defy is rip-roaring fun to ride. The two rides we were treated to, 85 and 105km, were ticked off at an average speed of about 20mph. And that was with plenty of decent climbs too.
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Finding myself in a chain gang with three others on an undulating circular route around one of the many lochs, the Defy proved that it can provide the sort of speed, handling and performance you’d expect from a thoroughbred race bike, and that really surprised me. I wasn’t expecting to feel so comfortable on the bike in such a situation. The only sense that you’re not on a race bike is the handling is occasionally a bit more measured, and there are less vibrations coming through the contact points.
Giant have given the Defy a huge section down tube and a tapered head tube with their OverDrive 1 1/4in top bearing size, topped with a huge sprinter-friendly carbon stem. Down below there’s a press-fit 86mm wide bottom bracket shell. That all means that power transfer is ample to deliver high speeds and swift acceleration. It’s all very stiff when you push hard on the pedals, and when you lean on the handlebars there’s no hint of twist or flex along the length of the frame.
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I found myself comparing the Defy not to other endurance road bikes, but to full-on race bikes. There’s very little compromise in the Defy’s delivery of performance. If you’re going to compare it to endurance bikes, then the Bianchi Infinito CV is the first that springs to mind. There’s a similarity of handling and willingness to ride very fast, but the Infinito CV might just have the edge on pure comfort. We'd need to get both bikes in for a back-to-back comparison test to answer that one for certain.
The geometry still makes the bike
The one thing Giant didn’t change about the new Defy is the geometry: it’s identical to that of the old bike.
That’s a good thing, because it's the geometry that is arguably what made the bike such a hit with cyclists. While every other aspect of the bike has transformed almost beyond recognition, in retaining the geometry, Giant have kept the classic handling. If you’re a previous Defy owner, you’ll feel right at home, and if you’re sizing up the Defy, you’ll be interested to know that the Defy offers superb handling.
What I like most about it is how it feels almost docile when riding along in a straight line. It feels a bit ponderous. Small steering corrections don’t translate into sudden movements around the road. Seize the handlebars tightly and thrust it around the road, through a corner or chase down a friend who has attacked over the crest of a hill, and the Defy wakens from its slumber. It comes alive, and all of a sudden it feels sprightly and energetic.
Of course the top-end componentry on the test bike positively influence the ride (Zipp 202 wheels and Giant’s colossal carbon-fibre stem) so it’ll be interesting to test one of the lower specced bikes to see how much impact they make on the performance.
Spec aside, the Defy is an easy and comfortable bike to ride whether you're admiring the views or riding on the rivet.
Disc brakes are a good thing on road bikes
Yes, really, they are. I know there are a lot of haters, but when you’ve ridden Shimano’s most excellent R785 for a decent length of time, taking in a full range of riding conditions, road surfaces and weather, it is very easy to be won over by them. You might just find it hard to go back to regular caliper brakes.
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It’s not about the power, which is certainly a lot more than regular brake, but about the control they offer. There were a couple of good fast descents spiced up with some hairpin turns and fast open curves on the test loops that we took the Defy on, and the disc brakes simply provided a superior level of control in these situations.
Because I was able to control my speed more easily, I felt safer and more confident. Whether it’s adjusting the speed to get the entry into a corner just right, or scrubbing of a load of speed for a 180 degree hairpin bend. Or feathering the brakes to check your speed when riding in a tight paceline. The disc brakes just offer better control, and without any issues of a lack of traction as is often cited by the luddites detractors.
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The same lever pull nets a huge increase in power, so you can comfortably use a single finger the entire time, even when hauling on the brakes for a rapidly approaching T-junction. You know those scary moments when you’ve got three fingers on the brakes levers and your caliper brakes aren’t really slowing you down as quickly as you would like? If anything you're still accelerating. Well, you don’t get any of those situations with these R785 disc brakes.
Shimano recommend their IceTech rotors - they would, of course - but they’re only available with their own Centrelock fitting. Few wheel manufacturers have adopted this standard, so Giant used a pair of 140m TRP rotors with a 6-bolt mount on the Zipp wheels.
While I didn’t ride down Mount Etna like Dave did at the Shimano disc brake launch, on the reasonably long and steep descents I did take them down, the brakes performed just fine. No hint of fade or the rotors struggling to cope with the heat.
Scotland is a really beautiful place
Giant chose Pitlochry not because it’s a bit tricky to get to but because 1) it’s absolutely stunningly beautiful and 2) the available roads are the perfect place to show off the capabilities of the new bike.
Loads of real rollercoaster roads with lots of crests and sharp inclines to test the legs. There were fast descents with wide open sweeping bends, steeper downhills into tree covered tight hairpins. There were brutal climbs too: Ben Lawyers South Climb on day one is a tough nut that starts off with sections as steep as 15%, before relaxing to a steady 8-12% for the remainder. Few breathing spots until the summit was crested at Lochan na Lairige.
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And all this set against a really pretty backdrop. You’re out in the wilderness most of the time, you really feel like you’re a long way from civilisation at times which is just incredible. But there are good villages on the route with tea shops that will serve you huge slabs of cake and mugs of coffee to fuel your for the rest of the ride.
You could very easily make a good argument that these are the best cycling roads in the UK. We stayed in Aberfeldy, a small village close to Loch Tay that provide the basis for the first circular route. It’s a good base for exploring the local roads and you’re straight into quiet country roads. I really recommend it.
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Giant haven't yet confirmed the UK range or prices yet. I rode the top-end Defy Advanced SL with a Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 groupset with hydraulic disc brakes, 140mm TRP rotors on Zipp 202 wheels, Giant 25mm tyres and Giant carbon bars and stem, and a Fizik Aliante saddle.
They'll also be offering the Defy Advanced which drops the integrated seatmast for a D-Fuse seatpost and features a Shimano Ultegra mechanical groupset with TRP Spyre disc brakes. Plus there are aluminium models that switch the disc brakes for conventional caliper brakes.
More at www.giant-bicycles.com
All riding photos copyright Chris Milliman
David worked on the road.cc tech team from 2012-2020. Previously he was editor of Bikemagic.com and before that staff writer at RCUK. He's a seasoned cyclist of all disciplines, from road to mountain biking, touring to cyclo-cross, he only wishes he had time to ride them all. He's mildly competitive, though he'll never admit it, and is a frequent road racer but is too lazy to do really well. He currently resides in the Cotswolds, and you can now find him over on his own YouTube channel David Arthur - Just Ride Bikes.
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40 comments
Will the 2017 Defy have through axles and flat mounts?
Cheapskate luddite here:
I've had a 2015 alloy, Defy Zero for the last few months. 105 mechanical throughout and giant wheels swapped out for Aksiums. I was used to a Ti MTB so I felt I was compromising by missing carbon and discs in order to keep to a budget and thus expected to tolerate rather than love the ride. I was wrong. I Luv it - a total bargain! Those rim brakes are pretty good too - once you swap out the stock calipers for the proper 105 5800 items @ £40.
Warranties - pah
I had a Gary Fisher MTB -(owned by TREK) bottom bracket down tube cracked (known problem). Life time frame guarantee...
never used in real off road - never abused. Replacement denied as I had not kept the 7 year old receipt!
The company I bought it from had gone out of business so I could not re trace my steps.
Paul
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any big companies that don't have some vocally unhappy customers who feel they've been hard done by.
Personally stuff like that wouldn't influence my decision to buy a particular brand or not.
Whereas when I snapped my c10 year old Trek Lemond and because I had the receipt they sorted me out very quickly. Because they didn't import or make anything comparable anymore I got a 525 frame replaced with a True Temper Platinum OX one, because the headset was 1 1/8 not 1" I got a new fork as well, and as the frame was shipped direct from the factory I got to choose the colour scheme from a range of 5 or 6 options.
These horror stories about Giant claiming petty reasons for not replacing frames under warranty, is it really Giant being a pain in the arse or is it down to a retailer not wanting to have to bother doing the warranty work and claiming back through Giant for the labour?
I know one or two people who have had warranty replacements through Giant over the years and they don't try to wriggle out of responsibility, they are a big player with professional standards not JJB Sports trying to wriggle out refunding someone a hundred quid for a bike shaped object just because you put a set of spokey dokeys on it.
I'd agree with this, a new frame for Giant is buttons compared to bad press. I suggest you e-mail Giant UK and explain your situation which takes the actual bike supplier out of the loop. Let us know how you get on
and don't forget to send them a link to this thread
'easily swayed' - well maybe I was just sending a message to Giant....
Maybe get in writing want parts can and can't be swapped?!
Discs + QR F&R & still alive to tell the tale?! Hey Dave, how about some words regarding QR vs. thru-axles on road disc? x2 distinct camps and I have a feeling whilst QR is perfectly adequate (they've been paired with discs on mtbs for years with no probs), thru-axles are only being touted because they're new (in this context) and a bit more 'exciting' (i.e. marketable).
Having just built up a new mountain bike with thru-axles front and rear, the difference in handling is considerable compared to QR. The forces at play on a road bike are, of course, different but I would welcome anything that stiffens the bike around the wheels as it increases the accuracy of the steering significantly.
That Defy is lush. The graphics are lovely and it looks so, so right with the compact geometry and the disc brakes.
Just for a bit of balance I had a Giant MTB frame replaced under warranty very quickly a few years ago with no problems at all.
Warranty - hmm I put Giant on my shortlist, as was told they're good at dealing with warranty issues, and then bought a Defy. What was the resolution? I discounted new frame?
This has put me right off getting a new one!
Warranty - hmm I put Giant on my shortlist, as was told they're good at dealing with warranty issues, and then bought a Defy Advanced 0. What was the resolution? I discounted new frame?
This has put me right off getting a new one!
One anecdote vs many thousands of happy owners... you're easily swayed!
Giant is the biggest manufacturer in the world, making frames for other brands too.
(writes a Giant fan who would snap up a disc Defy without a moment's hesitation if he could)
I'd ask the opinion of someone who sells lots of them if you're genuinely worried.
Currently own a 2014 Defy Advanced 2 which feels like such a quantum leap forward over my old (old) Focus Cayo it's untrue. Love it to bits so I'm delighted to hear the fundamental characteristics of the frame are pretty much unchanged on this new-fangled version.
Discs are undoubtedly the future as anyone else who rode RideLondon '100' last weekend will agree. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in dreamland, frankly, or has just never ridden a decent set of discs.
As for Pitlochry, there's a reason the Etape Caledonia happens there, you know. But it's by no means the only part of Scotland with roads like that. Galloway forest is even quieter in my experience and further south too. We are lucky to have Scotland on our doorsteps.
My loyalty for giant bikes is wavering. One of their excuses for denying a warranty claim on a broken 10 month old defy advanced 2 frame was that the wheels were not as supplied with the bike. I changed the giant wheels the first week I got the bike for mavic ksyrium elites s wheels. The other excuse was that the chain was not as supplied with the bike! So beware, the giant frame warranty might become invalid if you decide to use your preferred wheels, or during a service decide to put a new chain on the bike. For the record I own an old atx 880 mtb, defy 3, defy advanced 2, and a propel sl3. It's a pity because the new defy advanced looks good but I'm likely to go shopping with canyon next time.
doesn't make sense? What has a change of wheels or chain got to do with a frame warranty? Please explain.
Wow...that's not good to hear at all. My Defy Advanced has a slight white looking area at the back just under the seat clamp (black frame colour). This discolouration is usually associated with delimitation according to info on the internet. So far that bike has had:
New wheels - I have a couple of different sets
2 New chains - new and 10 to 11 speed
New group set - ultegra mechanical to ultegra DI2
New handle bars - Zipp service course are much better for me
Different length stem - I was bashing my knees
New saddle - the original one was evil
New seat clamp - rounded that even using a torque wrench. It just kept slipping.
So I guess they wouldn't even consider it still a Defy...although you can't tell from a distance
I had visions of a canyon too. I can't remember if there was a frame weight limit or just some bad reviews that made me change my mind for a future new frame. Although now they have a new and slightly more racy looking endurance model.
Then again, by that time I'll just put all the original bits back on. They'll never know the difference
Disgraceful. Thank goodness for the internet though ... and for sites like road.cc too. As consumers it opens our eyes, will influence our buying decisions and ultimately will pretty much force manufacturers to fairly honour their warranties.
When the last freebie offer was made (for those ear-bone headphone thingies) there were over 1200 individual posts claiming them just within 24 hours. That's a pretty significant amount of enthusiast's cash being influenced by this site alone.
The Defy 2 was on my shopping list for my next P&J. Now? Not so much.
That's shocking. Why don't you try asking them what you're supposed to do when the chain wears, in order to have a warranty that lasts more than a year (if that)? I'm thinking they'll say it should be replaced only with the same part and by a Giant dealer, but at that point you're into the territory that car dealers were into a few years ago when they got their knuckles rapped for refusing to honour warranties where the car had been serviced by anyone other than one of their dealers. For this reason I don't think it's a position they can maintain indefinitely, although it's a pain in the ar$e for you right now.
I liked the sound of this new Defy, but your story has put me right off - that sounds like a policy devised by bean-counters and lawyers, rather than cyclists.
Take to twitter FooFighter. That's what it excels at - a large audience Giant can't control access to.
I think that you are deliberately and with malice trying to portray Giant as being a unfair company - who in their right mind, in today's consumer society, expects a bicycle to last and be useable after the chain wears out anyway, not when you can just toss it in the recycle bin and go out and buy another - shame on you for not helping out with the growth of the economy
Bummer. 3 sets of non-disc brake wheels means I'll pass for now. I prefer the colour scheme of my 2012 Defy anyway...
I wonder why they went with a carbon stem though.
Is it just me or are the RS685 levers seriously expensive? The full set up is £500 for two levers and two calipers, whereas a pair of Ultegra 6800 levers are £260. That's£240 for the hydraulic reservoir and the calipers.
For comparison, a pair of Shimano XT levers and calipers retail for £160, and it is the XT calipers that the road ones are based on. I know there is also the cost of the shifting to take account of, but basically for the same 'level' of groupset Shimano are saying the shifting bit costs an extra £340 compared to XT.
I know there is a lot of R&D cost to recover, but it still seems steep.
You need to start comparing like for like. First off, the road levers are brake and gear levers, with calipers etc. XT brakes have an rrp of over £100 per brake, plus the shifters have an rrp of £100. So XT shifters and brakes have a combined rrp of well over £300.
Also I can't recall if the road system come with rotors. The XT ones don't and you have to add these onto the overall price.
Meanwhile mechanical ultegra road shifters have an rrp of over £300 and don't come with the brakes, which alone hand an rrp of around £70 each. So not far off the £500 overall.
There's still a hefty difference granted, but not quite as big as you make out. Road shifters always tend to cost more than mtb shifters - a little more complicated and in the case of ultegra, the carbon fibre used in the levers adds cost.
That's not to say the price difference isn't still a little large, but I agree with you on this one .... New product so higher cost.
He was? And how are road shifters are "more complicated"? More complicated cable routing perhaps but the mechanism is no different.
The way that SRAM and Shimano are pricing integrated shifters almost implies we were previously getting braking function in lever thrown in for free (which reflects technology used, kind of) but now technology has changed there's no free lunch. Its such a step up from previous cost that they have taken to quoting price per lever so as to reduce the sticker shock.
No he wasn't, he was comparing XT brakes that don't come with integrated shifters with ultegra brakes that do have integrated sfifters. Pluse, there is no carbon fibre is XT, and have you ever take apart gear levers? The principle of the gear shifting might be the same, but road shifters are definitely more complicated - way more small parts. Plus you the have the packaging of the units. Trying to fit gear mechanisms and brake reservoir etc into the one drop bar shifter is not easy if you want to keep it looking ok and relatively slim .... Just look at how huge and ugly SRAM levers are to see something that in my book is not as well executed as shimano.
Yah, just wait for the 2017 Shim 105 disk brake shifters
"I rode the top-end Defy Advanced SL with a Shimano Ultegra Di2 groupset with hydraulic disc brakes, 140mm TRP rotors on Zipp 202 wheels.."
Looks like Dura Ace to me
With 202s and Dura Ace guess its not going to be cheap then. Interesting that the same frame gets them from budget carbon to superbike territory though.
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