York police in rear light fixed-penalty fever

I am a motorist. Back in February I was unlucky enough to encounter a cyclist with no lights. It was not fatal - but has left me on medication for anxiety. I still can't drive at nigh. What's more - I'm being sued by said cyclist for personal injury. It was 7AM full dark - he had no lights and was wearing black cloths - why did I pull out in front of him - I DID NOT SEE HIM.
Fortunately the Police agreed that it was not my fault. They did not prossecute him - because he's POLISH.

Yea I agree, more common sense is needed, and I think that goes for most area's of the law. That would be my argument if I took it to court that the lights where at least there and to my knowledge working.

Maybe theyve just struggled to fine many people in this area and were desperate lol

I fully agree with the scheme, as primarily a driver myself bikes without lights on can just come into view at the last second especially when its really dark.

Main reason ive come across this topic is after searching about people getting fined as my workmate was fined last night as follows:

He left work, turned his lights on (all where working fine) then started riding home, 5 mins later gets stopped by 2 policemen on bikes who notify him his rear light isnt working, gets asked if he has been told about the scheme before to which he answers no. They then gave him a £30 fine, then inspect the light thats not working and it starts working again, and then say 'oh its ok for you to ride home now'

Yet the fine is still in place. I fail to understand how they can fine him in this case, how can he possibly know if his light stops working? he's done all he can yet still gets fined. Ive told him basically he shouldnt pay it.

(it turned out 1 of the batteries was leaking and thats why the light would switch on and off by itself randomly)

What do you guys think on the matter?

you're right Simon, we will see what we can find out

OK guys, you have convinced me. Now let go of my arm!

Considering the 93% DfT figure reported here last month, perhaps road.cc could invite Graham Titchener or Fiona Wiley/Willey to give us an idea of what other safety measures are being taken in York at the moment.

At the same time they could also give an idea of how many (wo)man-hours have been used pursuing Operation Image compared to those checking on uninsured or unroadworth vehicles, mobile phone use while driving, ASBOs, theft and vandalism etc etc.

I'm sure plenty of people run in to the back of cars with faulty tail llights - definitely faulty brake lights.

Not tail lights, but I do remember years ago reading about a motorcyclist being killed as he overtook on an unlit road by a van coming the other way with only one headlight. Cars, vans and lorries with faulty lights are not at all a rare sight on the road even now.

Don't think the speeding motorist analogy holds either - a car is two tonnes of metal capable of inflicting large amounts of damage - a bike isn't. Like it or not (and I agree with you about cycling red light jumpers) the plain fact is that rule breaking cyclists cause a tiny fraction of the harm to other people that rule breaking motorists do.

So, not on the basis that cyclists can do no wrong cos they certainly can, but on the simple basis of the greatest amount of harm reduction for the greatest amount of people stopping cyclists without lights is a waste of time and resources - it's alibi policing.

Riding without lights at night is stupid. But it is the cyclist who risks his or her own life. By comparison, cars with inadequate lighting cause a risk to other road users. I regularly see cars that are obviously defective with broken lights, flat and bald tyres and which have chassis/steering problems that cause them to crab along the road at an angle. If I can see these regularly and without even having to look, why can't the police? Perhaps the police could do better things with their time?

This sentence should also be taken into consideration.

"It is also worth noting when considering if such crackdowns on cyclists are a proper use of police time that the DfT report also found that in 93 per cent of casualty incidents involving cyclists the cyclists were not to blame."

I see your point Tony, but that line is a bit too much like speeding drivers bleating "Why don't you catch real criminals?". And since when did you last have a scary close call with a car that has a missing tail light?

It looks like victimisation or easy pickings, but it's so simple (and relatively cheap) to implement why not? They don't spend much time on it, there's a brief blitz then hopefully the publicity gets a few more cyclists that are appropriately illuminated in the dark.

I too would like it more if they could nab RLJers (all vehicle types) and similar miscreants at the same time.

Totally agree that riding without lights is daft, but think jobysp is spot-on the main reason the cops stop cyclists for this is that's it's easy. In terms of harm reduction it isn't achieving much because even unlit cyclists don't do much harm except possibly to themselves.

Spot on Barry.

When discussing lights with other cyclists I always point out that you have to bear in mind that myopic drivers could well be peering through misted-up, rain-splashed, dirty or iced-up windows.

They may be distracted by a mobile phone, a passenger, the store window they are passing or stressed after a long day.

And if he/she has someone else' bright lights in their face our little dot of red or white will be even less obvious. Like this:

We need all the help we can get!

I have no problem with this. There have been too many fatalities where the cyclist has been wearing dark clothing and riding without lights.

Good on them.

Now can they also go and stop all the motorists with incorrectly working front lights, rear lights and brake lights too?

Probably not, because cyclists are easier to stop.

Just got back from taking the wife to work.

I counted 5 cyclists on the main road riding without any lights at all and of these only one with visible reflective material.

Another half-dozen had rear lights but no front lights so they wouldn't have seen the potholes that have appeared in the road over the last week or so until they'd hit them.