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Petition to ban lorries from London's streets during rush hour receives 2,500 signatures in first 10 hours

London Cycling Campaign says ban is essential as 40% of cyclist fatalities involving lorries happen in the morning rush hour

A petition calling on the Mayor of London to ban lorries from the capital's streets during rush hour has received 2,500 signatures in the first 10 hours.

The London Cycling Campaign's (LCC) petition, which has received hundreds of impassioned comments from concerned cyclists, was launched one month after 26-year-old newlywed, Ying Tao, was crushed to death by a lorry while cycling at Bank junction in the City of London. Tao was the eighth cyclist to die on London's roads this year, seven of whom were killed in collisions with lorries.

From 1 September a ban of all lorries of more than 3.5 tonnes without side guards and mirrors comes into force in the capital but the LCC's Chief Executive, Ashok Sinha, says this is not enough and lorries should be banned from London's streets between 8-9.30am.

- Freight Transport Association agrees - government needs to incentivise safer lorry design

He said: “It is unacceptable that seven cyclists have lost their lives after being involved in collisions with lorries on London’s roads in the first half of 2015. 40% of cycling fatalities involving lorries occur in the morning rush hour. Almost all of these fatalities involve the construction and waste industry lorries that flood onto our roads at the same time thousands of people are cycling to work.

"The Safer Lorry scheme will do nothing to prevent this from happening, nor will it protect cyclists from lorries with restricted vision or unlicensed, untrained lorry drivers on London’s roads. Unless more is done, more people will lose their lives. We’re calling on the Mayor to end lorry danger now.”

Last week the Freight Transport Association's (FTA) Head of Urban Logistics, Christopher Snelling, said he believes a rush hour lorry ban is not the answer, arguing it will increase lorry numbers later, when there are more pedestrians on the roads, while increasing the use of smaller vehicles.

Snelling said: “Even a medium-sized lorry would have to be replaced with 10 vans – which means overall safety would not be improved, let alone the emissions and congestion consequences. It has to be remembered that we don’t choose to deliver at peak times on a whim – our customers need goods at the start of the working day.”

HGV deliveries must avoid rush hour for safety

The LCC's Rosie Downes said although the charity is supportive of the FTA's work to move delivery times outside of rush hour, an outright ban is the only way to prevent less scrupulous firms from operating in rush hour regardless of the risks. She said individual councils can play their role by moving delivery times outside of rush hour, too.

She said: "We believe regulation is needed to ensure that London’s most dangerous lorries – often the ones who are less proactive about reducing danger to vulnerable road users – aren’t on our roads at the busiest times.

"In addition to a rush hour lorry ban, it must be down to local authorities, construction clients and fleet operators to ensure they're reducing risk to vulnerable road users through measures like retiming deliveries to avoid London’s roads when they’re busy – not just between 8am and 9.30am - and improving vehicle safety," she said.

The lorry blind spot to the left of the driver's cab is implicated in 80% of cycling fatalities involving HGVs and the LCC is calling on the Mayor to ensure only direct vision lorries without that blind spot are used on projects that receive funding from the Mayor's offices.

A spokesman for the Mayor told the Evening Standard: "There are many difficulties and practicalities with imposing a rush hour ban in a major city like London. What we don’t want to see is heavy goods vehicle activity simply dispersed to other times of the day - HGVs flooding into town once the rush hour is over won’t deliver benefits for cyclists or pedestrians.

“In September, we will be banning lorries and construction vehicles without certain safety equipment from entering London at all - at any time of the day or week.”

Mayoral candidates: stop HGVs helping build Russian oligarchs' yuppie flats

Speaking to LondonLovesBusiness, Labour mayoral hopeful Christian Wolmar said: “I would support a ban for lorries between 8 and 9.30 in the morning. There are all these construction trucks building yuppie flats for Russian oligarchs.

“I think you could ban most lorries at these times. I’d particularly like to see more control over the construction industry lorries. It’s the construction lorries that have been causing all the danger.”

Conservative Mayoral hopeful, Zac Goldsmith, said he supports the lorry ban as well as the upcoming safer lorry standards in the capital. Goldsmith believes more freight needs to be shipped by river.

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44 comments

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embattle | 8 years ago
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In an ideal world the idea of banning HGVs at rush hour and separating cyclists away from other vehicles every where is great but in reality it'll never happen.

I've been disliked for saying this but I'll always say it, cyclists need to be more careful and less blasé when it comes to cycling.

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kie7077 replied to embattle | 8 years ago
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embattle wrote:

In an ideal world the idea of banning HGVs at rush hour and separating cyclists away from other vehicles every where is great but in reality it'll never happen.

I've been disliked for saying this but I'll always say it, cyclists need to be more careful and less blasé when it comes to cycling.

Some cyclists you mean, I don't cycle down the LHS of HGVs unless I'm sure I can get past before it can move.

And it's nothing to do with 'Blazé' it's a lack of public awareness - education is the key.

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Ush replied to kie7077 | 8 years ago
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kie7077 wrote:
embattle wrote:

In an ideal world the idea of banning HGVs at rush hour and separating cyclists away from other vehicles every where is great but in reality it'll never happen.

I've been disliked for saying this but I'll always say it, cyclists need to be more careful and less blasé when it comes to cycling.

Some cyclists you mean, I don't cycle down the LHS of HGVs unless I'm sure I can get past before it can move.

And it's nothing to do with 'Blazé' it's a lack of public awareness - education is the key.

Agreed. Cyclists need to know that they're not only _allowed_ to occupy the center of a lane, but that if they want to reduce the danger to themselves then they'd better do it. There's a very mixed(*) set of reports in the Irish Independent on cycling in the city one of which includes this video, which at 11 seconds in shows a woman who might benefit from the encouragement and normalisation of riding assertively http://www.independent.ie/life/city-cycling/citycycling-near-misses-the-...

* It's a whole series which completely plays up the danger angle of cycling. Reading it, if I were not already a happy cyclist, I would be scared off cycling for ever. The series is prompted by the introduction of a bunch of fixed penalty notices for cyclists in Ireland.

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kie7077 replied to Ush | 8 years ago
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It doesn't look very constructive, more cyclist-bashing than cyclist educating.

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Airzound | 8 years ago
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As Jim Morrison sang,

"Riders on the storm.
There's a killer on the road.
His brain is squirming' like a toad.
Take a long holiday ………"

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ChairRDRF | 8 years ago
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OldRidgeback: I have been looking at HV /cyclist statistics since the early 90s. Take Rosamund Irwin's article today http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/why-are-hgv-lorries-so-d... which shows that about half the HGVs involved with cycling fatalities from January 2008 until today were in the construction industry.

As I pointed out above, differently designed industry vehicles, or retro-fits on existing ones, are one of the key aims of both us in the RDRF and LCC. LCC have been working with CLoCS to produce new designs over the last 2 years and point this out in their press release today. they, like RDRF, are also into enforcement, training, highway design as key elements - the ban in the morning rush hour is just one element which the press and politicians have zeroed in on.

So I have already made the points you are making.

Re-the a.m. rush hour ban: I have argued that it could be useful if adequately safe vehicles and drivers were exempted - it would give a kick start to the necessary compulsion. BTW, non-construction HGVs often avoid the rush hour so they wouldn't be affected anyway.

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ChairRDRF | 8 years ago
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Me again: OldRidgeback's point about LCC missing the point is, er, missing the point.

If you go to the three point list of LCC objectives, the morning rush hour ban is only one of them. LCC has done a lot of work on alternative lorry design, and is well versed in the particular issues around the problems of construction vehicles.

I have been working through Road Danger Reduction Forum with the LCC on this for ages and it's largely due to them, RoadPeace and See me Save Me that we have managed to get TfL to do anything on this issue.

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OldRidgeback replied to ChairRDRF | 8 years ago
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ChairRDRF wrote:

Me again: OldRidgeback's point about LCC missing the point is, er, missing the point.

If you go to the three point list of LCC objectives, the morning rush hour ban is only one of them. LCC has done a lot of work on alternative lorry design, and is well versed in the particular issues around the problems of construction vehicles.

I have been working through Road Danger Reduction Forum with the LCC on this for ages and it's largely due to them, RoadPeace and See me Save Me that we have managed to get TfL to do anything on this issue.

Not it's not. Look at the statistics. The majority of crashes involve construction trucks, tippers and skippers particularly. The incidents do not involve supermarket trucks for instance. There is a specific problem involving construction trucks and how these are operated. There are ways to improve the safety of those trucks without banning all HGVs. The article does cover the ways the safety of construction trucks could be improved and in some detail.

There are examples of best practice from within the industry. And there is a lot of proven safety technology available to make construction trucks safer. Some companies are using this technology but not all, and those that don't are undercutting those that do. The technology needs to be made compulsory and the firms not using best practice need to be kept out of London. That's the smart way to boost safety.

I get a lot of crash statistics across my desk at work. I also know a fair bit about the construction industry and how it operates and what needs to be addressed with regard to the operation of truck fleets.

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ChairRDRF | 8 years ago
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Another crucial point: if the safety regime is to be changed, there are concerns about how Transport for London's Fleet Operators Recognition Scheme has been not pushing as hard as it should have been on HGV safety : http://rdrf.org.uk/2015/07/20/what-transport-for-london-is-still-getting...

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ChairRDRF | 8 years ago
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In our view there are a number of specific measures which should be implemented, mainly:
1. Redesign of HGVs re- "blind spots" (by retro-fitting transparent doors and infra-red sensors on existing vehicles and having new low cab direct vision vehicles and reducing the space between the vehicle body and tarmac (by retro-fitting side ad front guards and again newly designed HGVs with bodies closer to the ground/tarmac).

2. Enforcement: for rogue operators, "normal" rule and law breaking by HGV rivers like close overtaking and having a proper health and safety regime governing freight on the roads.

3. A morning rush hour ban could be a useful adjunct, but is of relatively little importance - perhaps HGVs with right design features and adherence to safety regime could be exempted.

4. Training of drivers - a minor but significant potential contribution. And training of cyclists - although even well-trained cyclists make mistake and don't deserve to die for them.

5. And of course, engineering the highway to reduce the potential for collision in the first place - although this isn't going to cover all junctions and will take loads of time to implement.

All this is explained in our summary here : http://rdrf.org.uk/2015/07/21/what-transport-for-london-needs-to-do-for-...

By the way, a pedestrian was killed under the wheels of an HGV just near me today - it isn't just cyclists at risk.

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sooper6 | 8 years ago
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Distribution companies do not want their vehicles stuck in traffic. Most would want to operate efficiently in light traffic conditions. The problem is they are banned at night from many London boroughs because of noise nuisance legislation. Paris bans HGV's in the rush hour to save lives and London bans HGV's at night to reduce noise pollution. Two cities with very different priorities.

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fixit | 8 years ago
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There aren't safe and unsafe vehicles, these are just machines. there are brainless and balless drivers hidden behind a steering wheel, and there is an equal amount of them behind a handle bar...
To talk about DEATH count of more than 5 a year in a civilized world as the UK, shows no civilized world at all, in the contrary it shows the dark ages of the uk where human life was insignificant are back. what I suggest? very high penalties in confirmed deliberate actions (25 to life) even if there is no death and high penalties in deliberate negligence (yes there is deliberate negligence). but don't be fooled, never will a day come where cycling will be completely away from cars, because everything in this world is fit and constructed for cars, planes, boats and generally everything that runs on PETROL. if bicycles were run on petrol, there will be highways built for them and not for cars...

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Judge dreadful | 8 years ago
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I know this ain't gonna be popular, but, ban cycling during rush hour. It pains me to say that, but some of the idiotic riding I've witnessed during rush hour, is worthy of it.

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brooksby replied to Judge dreadful | 8 years ago
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Judge dreadful wrote:

I know this ain't gonna be popular, but, ban cycling during rush hour. It pains me to say that, but some of the idiotic riding I've witnessed during rush hour, is worthy of it.

I appreciate that you are trolling, but...

If were going to ban entire modes of transport based just on "some of the idiotic riding I've witnessed" then I think the roads are going to be completely empty very quickly.

Nobody's saying ban HGVs during rush hour because of the quality of their driving; they're saying it because HGVs are huge juggernauts with blind spots the size of Pluto which in any rational world would not be allowed onto the narrow streets alongside pedestrians and cyclists.

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to Judge dreadful | 8 years ago
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Judge dreadful wrote:

I know this ain't gonna be popular, but, ban cycling during rush hour. It pains me to say that, but some of the idiotic riding I've witnessed during rush hour, is worthy of it.

Yeah, because it would be far better if all those bad rush-hour cyclists were driving cars instead. As, obviously, they'd all be fantastic drivers and there's just too much space on rush-hour roads at the moment.

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Judge dreadful replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 8 years ago
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Think about it for a minute, you're banning cyclists only at rush hour. If businesses allowed their cycling employee's flexibility in their start / finish times, based on this, you incentivise more people to ride, and you reduce the lorry vs. cyclist issue.

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Hindmost | 8 years ago
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gmac101 | 8 years ago
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The major issue is that health and safety legislation doesn't apply on the roads so that companies don't have to apply the care they take with their staff and contractors at their work sites to the population at large. This results in the ridiculous situation where a lorry is legal on the roads but once it arrives on a building site it is "illegal" because it doesn't have a mirror (for example) that eliminates a blind spot.

If HSE legislation applied to operations on the road then organisations would have to apply the HSE hierarchy (any HSE professionals out there feel free to correct me) Eliminate (stop doing the dangerous operation) Segregate (Barriers ) Training (It's a dumb idea, please don't do it) Personal Protection (please wear a helmet). You start at the top "eliminate" and work your way down with Personal Protection judged to be the minimum and least satisfactory level.
If companies had to show that they'd completed this kind of analysis then you'd find a lot less trucks on the road, using appropriate roads with better trained and equipped drivers as HSE prosecutions can go all the way to the top.
As for bleating about cost I wouldn't worry too much about that, most industries when forced to can sort that out pretty effectively themselves with enough pressure.

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johndonnelly replied to gmac101 | 8 years ago
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gmac101 wrote:

The major issue is that health and safety legislation doesn't apply on the roads so that companies don't have to apply the care they take with their staff and contractors at their work sites to the population at large. ...

You've thought this through more than I have.

How many here would support a petition to transfer investigation of collisions involving commercial vehicles from the police to the HSE?

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OldRidgeback | 8 years ago
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The LCC is totally missing the point. Sorry, but it has to be said. The problem is not one of all HGVs, it involves specific categories of HGVs, namely tipper trucks and skip delivery lorries.

A rush hour ban on HGVs will target those many trucks that are not causing a problem. And this will drive up construction costs and making building (and homes) even more expensive, at a time when London is expanding fast.

There are ways to improve safety for construction HGVs such as tippers, skip trucks and concrete mixer trucks. The LCC would be far better to target those safety measures than calling for an outright ban.

The Evening Standard has an excellent article on truck safety. If the people at the LCC would only read this, they'd perhaps appreciate the problem and how best to address it:
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/why-are-hgv-lorries-so-d...

As for traffic figures, London's congestion levels and traffic volumes are lower than in the noughties at the turn of the millennium.

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kie7077 replied to OldRidgeback | 8 years ago
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From the Standard article:
"Because the guys are paid by load rather than per hour, they drive like maniacs."

That needs to be banned, for all delivery drivers, it is a direct encouragement to break the law.

Re traffic levels, I expect traffic has increased hugely outside of the City of London whilst it had already hit saturation within the City. If we get autonomous cars the saturation limit will increase and we will have far worse congestion.

Just take a look a how bad it is at all times of day:
Traffic Map

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thesaladdays replied to kie7077 | 8 years ago
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kie7077 wrote:

From the Standard article:
"Because the guys are paid by load rather than per hour, they drive like maniacs."

The sentence in the article following that one was particularly frightening:

"You can tell that with tippers in particular as their mirrors are protected by steel [guards]— that’s because they’re driving aggressively and trying to get through spaces they shouldn’t."

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OldRidgeback replied to thesaladdays | 8 years ago
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thesaladdays wrote:
kie7077 wrote:

From the Standard article:
"Because the guys are paid by load rather than per hour, they drive like maniacs."

The sentence in the article following that one was particularly frightening:

"You can tell that with tippers in particular as their mirrors are protected by steel [guards]— that’s because they’re driving aggressively and trying to get through spaces they shouldn’t."

Yes, this is the problem, tipper trucks being driven aggressively.

Banning all HGVs as the LCC is suggesting is missing the point. It's like finding evidence that BMW car drivers are all psychopaths and then banning all car drivers as a result.

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to OldRidgeback | 8 years ago
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OldRidgeback wrote:

And this will drive up construction costs and making building (and homes) even more expensive, at a time when London is expandin

I'm not at all sure about this whole topic, but...since when is all this construction about building affordable homes for ordinary people? As far as I can see its all office developments and luxury housing to be bought as investments by foreigners.
We have all this construction going on, but housing isn't getting any cheaper as a consequence.

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kie7077 | 8 years ago
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40% of cycling fatalities involving lorries occur in the morning rush hour.

And 60% don't, that's not really much of an increase during rush hour.

Policing HGVs heavily and mandating mirrors that eliminate blind spots should be the priority.

The lorry blind spot to the left of the driver's cab is implicated in 80% of cycling fatalities

This really says it all, that blind-spot needs to be eliminated.

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kie7077 | 8 years ago
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This is London, all day is rush hour now, seriously, I'm not exaggerating.

I'd love to see a comparison between 1980 traffic flow levels at 5pm and 2015 traffic flow level at 9pm, I'd bet 2015 is more busy.

Anyone have access to that data?

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OldRidgeback replied to kie7077 | 8 years ago
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kie7077 wrote:

This is London, all day is rush hour now, seriously, I'm not exaggerating.

I'd love to see a comparison between 1980 traffic flow levels at 5pm and 2015 traffic flow level at 9pm, I'd bet 2015 is more busy.

Anyone have access to that data?

I can't say about 1980 but I can say congestion levels were higher when the congestion charge was introduced. Congestion and traffic volumes were also higher from the late 80s until the congestion charge was introduced.

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dee4life2005 | 8 years ago
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Instead of restricting movements of HGVs at peak times ... given that the issue is more one of visibility from the drivers perspective, why not just require that all HGVs that are driving at peak times in city centres to have a passenger (co-driver). This co-driver would have their own set of mirrors fitted on the left of the vehicle, thus allowing them to easily check the left-hand-side blind spots that the driver can't see from their side. With regards other solutions being proposed this is probably one of the cheaper solutions.

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PaulBox replied to dee4life2005 | 8 years ago
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dee4life2005 wrote:

Instead of restricting movements of HGVs at peak times ... given that the issue is more one of visibility from the drivers perspective, why not just require that all HGVs that are driving at peak times in city centres to have a passenger (co-driver). This co-driver would have their own set of mirrors fitted on the left of the vehicle, thus allowing them to easily check the left-hand-side blind spots that the driver can't see from their side. With regards other solutions being proposed this is probably one of the cheaper solutions.

Because he'd just be sitting there smoking, picking his nose or playing on his smartphone and generally distracting the driver....

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Pippo | 8 years ago
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use the river a bit more? barges can carry even more than lorries, much easier to design them to be lower polluting, electric vans pick up at points close to the city centre. You wouldn't need to massively increase the traffic on the river, because one boat can carry a lot of containers.

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