Police witness appeal after cyclist killed in Warwickshire 4x4 crash

ironmancole, there's not a word of yours that has not wedged its truth in my mind and I live on the other side of the Channel . So count me in.

L.Willo - A broad brush attack on motoring / motorists will fall on deaf ears and just leave you wide open to the charge of hypocrite. Quote

I totally agree, many of us are cyclists and motorists all that is asked is that all road users are treated with care and respect.   That also applies to the relationship between cyclists (i.e. people who ride bikes) and pedestrians.  I think this has to be presented as a reasonable expectation, we will get nowhere unless it has a broad appeal.  

Politicians will never fear us but they will respect a large cohesive body who present a reasonable case.
 

ironmancole, I have to say I was blown away by the eloquent, succinct but scarily accurate posts that you put up here.  I too have become increasingly disenchanted with aggressive and impatient drivers and the general lack of concern displayed for a human life (mine). I decided in my own small way that I needed to act. I've purchased a helmet camera and have, with the lighter rides home in the last few weeks, started to use it to some effect.  What I haven't done with this footage is aimlessly post it on some media site to moan about drivers. What I have done is report the incident to the police. I've 'selected' the worst of the driving (mainly close passes at speed, as I ride on rural roads) working on the principle that there is no point in inundating the police. I've found that the North Wales Police web site allows you to post the intial reports online very easily. These have been followed up quickly and efficiently with an appointment and a request to see the footage. I was sceptical at first but I discovered that one of the officers that I've dealt with was actually a cyclist, just like me. As you said, they are real people too. Some footage has resulted in drivers getting a visit from the officers with guidance about how an overtake should be made. Others are currently going through the judicial channels. This takes time and effort, giving a simple statement for example can take an hour out of your day. There is always a chance you may have to stand up in court too, but I feel I have to make a stand. I've told people in work too, people who have known for years that I cycle, that I've got a camera and I'm using it. Some were laughing, but stopped when they saw the footage. Others started to ask 'how close is too close?', so told them to Google section 163. Most were surprised at what they saw, and said they'd never given a cyclist that much room and would have to re-think their driving.

I also have to say I'm not against vehicles, I own a car and drive it, and the points made about the use of vehicles is strong, I'm sure my laptop wasn't delivered on a bicycle. When driving I'm at pains to obey the rules and of course give space to bikes and I feel strongly that ALL cyclists need to do this too. No point in us behaving like nobs just because we are behind the wheel. Think of yourself as setting a good example to the driver behind you, you will of course be overtaken at times in 20 & 30 mph zones.....

That's it, I won't bore you any more, but I'll drop you an email, it would be good if we could get some support going

Hello Cole,

Thanks for your reply.

Again, I am not certain what you want to campaign for. On one hand you accept the absolute need for motorised transport in an industrialised society but in the same breath are scathing about all of the developments that are helping to slash the number of fatalities on the roads year on year as a consequence of accidents which are sadly inevitable.

So, the present situation is that deaths for all road users including cyclists is falling rapidly. Is your campaign that they are not falling quickly enough?

There are some things I agree with. The us and them mentality on the road is seriously unpleasant has got totally out of hand. It is worse than I have ever known it in 20 years of cycling. An education campaign to explain to all road users what others expect of them would be very welcome. Many drivers brought up with the idea that cyclists should be in the kerb don't understand the needs of the modern cyclist and many cyclists who don't drive or ride motorcycles don't understand that they are much safer when the driver has a clear idea about what they are planning to do. Hand signals, shoulder checks, adhering to the rules, filtering cautiously, making sure you are seen in mirrors before making a manoevre; these things are second nature to experienced cyclists and motorcyclists but every day I see riders who are clueless and leave other drivers without a clue about their intentions.

Quote:

Replace 'motor vehicle' with anything else you can think of and ask yourself if the wider public should really be ok with the costly fallout its abuse and misuse is causing.

The balance is danger and pollution vs utility and the motor vehicle is so useful, if not essential, it is difficult to imagine something comparable. The closest I can think of is the natural gas where for decades people have accepted the pollution and the small risks of gas explosion or carbon monoxide poisoning because the convenience of central heating makes it worth it. Not a perfect analogy but not completely unreasonable either.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gas-safety-shock-millions-risk-2276601

Nothing will be done until the politicians fear us. That will only be achieved through direct action and the police backlash will be brutal.

Thanks Willo, good post.

I agree we need to be practical.  I agree there are limits and reality will always get in the way of perfection, perceived or otherwise.

The issue I believe is that regardless of statistics there is a growing level of animosity on the roads between various user groups.  Factually though, one group kills the other.  As for victimisation, even using just the year you reference, the fact that 'only' 109 were cyclists does not mean cyclists should be content.  There is no tit for tat or swapping of troops in mutual disrespect. 

In probability it means motorists 'only' killed 109 so we should be grateful that wasn't 209, or 500?  In contrast if cyclists killed even 100 motorists there would be complete uproar.  Cyclist groups would be condemned if they retorted that they'd only killed 100 motorists as if that's something to be proud of?

Cyclists kill in exceptionally rare circumstance, if a cyclist is on the pavement for example and hits someone the immediate question should be why is the cyclist not using the road?  A perfectly sensible response would factually be 'because they're utterly hostile places accommodating all manner of motoring offences where 109 people will be killed'.

Yes, the cyclist should face full punishment for that death, I am not an advocate of inequality where any death has been caused by any road user, which is what we all are.

As for better driving standards that quite simply has to be enforced.  So does tax paying and all manner of things that history has demonstrated the human race is incapable of doing willingly in the wider group interest of the human species.  Tax as we know is enforced, driving standards quite simply are not.  Academics, TV enquiries and Dept Transport research backs this up.

Improved car technology merely makes it safer for the operative to drive more dangerously and walk away from their crash in one peice.  The link between improved car technologies and real world road safety for anyone other than the occupants is unproven and actually leans towards making road safety for the wider community worse.  The immortality principle applies, something we all had as kids leaping from trees that is rekindled once strapped inside an airbag laden aluminium roll cage with AB this that and the other on board.

Hi Viz and helmets for 'responsible cyclists' is with respect victim blaming, unless night time conditions are prevelent where all road users should of course seek to be seen.  The excuse that I can drive into your family because I was going too fast to see them from 2 miles away is unacceptable, the onus on me as a 'responsible driver' in full recognition of the fact I can kill at any second is utterly mine and no-one elses. 

I cannot shoot you and in mitigation claim it is partially your fault for both standing in the way of my bullets' line of travel and for not wearig a kevlar laden vest.  That is simply a cop out adopted by certain motorists who feel they should be able to travel wherever and however they deem fit without having to accommodate other human beings on a shared resource. 

Faster emergency services?  So, shifting blame from the well documented aggressors to the supposed failure of the medical teams tasked with running around like proverbial chickens trying to keep up with the crashing?  How about valuable NHS resources not having to be squandered on clearing up after such avoidable violence instead?

Electric vehicles.  The PR machine is working well it seems.  Electricity is still produced by coal burning facilities, simply offsetting sources of pollution from a singular exhaust to a shared power station stack.  Nuclear is as we all recognise a whole diferent form of nasty and the renewable electricity is still in its infancy as investment is questioned and the NIMBY brigade block the building of more wind turbines.

As for semi driverless cars I wholeheartedly agree, but in that admission you must recognise a form of acknowledgment that the operator is the issue and not the car itself.  Removing the weak link, the driver, is a shared target if the roads are ever to become safer for all road users and that is what is desperately needed.

I have no problem particularly with the motor vehicle and fully recognise its valuable contributions. 

I am even related to former formula 1 world champion Jim Clark and was lucky enough to get a factory tour when Lewis Hamilton won his first world championship where I alone sat in his factory car, still complete with his seat moulding in.  I wish I could enjoy Top Gear and perhaps now the three cretins have gone I can look forward to Chris and pals in the new series.

My wife insisted we get the Honda Civic Sport over the basic model but she too is fed up about what's going on out there from a purely motorist point of view.

It may well be that government has to conceed it is powerless to stop those who undoubtedly do feel it is acceptable to play Colin Mccrae in their imprezas on rural roads, and statistics back up that rural roads are lethal for vulnerable road users as the roads are often sketchy, unsighted, medical assistance is a distance away (if the motorist even stops to call for assistance which is scarily not uncommon) and as ever the police are unlikely to have any kind of presence.

What we have at the moment is an untenable position where government tries to paint the picture that it is serious about promoting activity, health, cutting congestion and pollution etc but at the same time refuses to do anything to actually make this a viable and safe proposition.  It is this sitting on the fence that is so dangerous.

If government invariably admits that the road network and its users is a monster it simply cannot or even will not control that is still progress.  If instead a network of high quality cycling commute routes are built along with cycling only rural roads linking towns and cities together we still achieve something and lives will be saved.

In contrast if government simpy says piss off, we're backing the car and all of its violence then again the picture is clear.

Irrespective of statistics it is a widely held view that cycling on the roads is deeply unpleasant and fear inducing.  The recent Near Miss Project was a first and emphasised the issues.  Just because I may be guaranteed to live for another 12 months of cycling does not mean I should not expect to be harrassed, spat at, shouted at, punishment passed, cut up and be generally abused in a manner that would not be tolerated in other normal domains of life.

I've been driving since 1996 and in that time I've not hit, scared, injured, intimidated, harrassed or killed anyone.  In contrast there are too many that have and do.  People are therefore the problem and that means government, various authorites and agencies and indeed society needs to step up and essentially grow a pair.

The important difference is that there is a clear line between a genuine bona fide road accident (and there are experts who believe such a thing doesn't actually exist given the incredibly close link between driver will and modern vehicle capability) and an all out inevitable consequence of someone choosing to play blackjack with other peoples lives.

Replace 'motor vehicle' with anything else you can think of and ask yourself if the wider public should really be ok with the costly fallout its abuse and misuse is causing.  I think it's clear the motor vehicle has abused an utterly unique position, to the extent that acceptance of its problems have become so engrained with 'normal' that too many don't even question it any more.

I accept risk, I am not risk adverse.  I am however, as many others also are, increasingly unaccepting of the levels of aggression, disrespect, impatience and failure to control, regulate, punish and deter those in our society who believe they can act towards others with impunity and not expect any form of reaction.

That is where such a campaign has deeply fertile and deeply well founded cause.

Very best,

Cole

There are a multitude of things we must be doing.  Let's forget politics for now at least, they've certainly forgotten us.

• Just who can we rely on?
• Divide those who oppose from those who share our concerns.
• There are barrier makers and barrier breakers.  Learn accordingly.
• The picture is actually vast.  Horse riders, walking groups, cycling, triathlon, institution of Advanced Motorists, the bereaved, the injured, those feeling the inevitable injustice, parents, decent drivers (there are still plenty) etc etc. 
• We all agree that killing is just not on.  No-one would volunteer their child to be sacrificed in the interests of the 'wonderful' motor car simply because they can be hit by a Lamborghini instead of a Nissan for example.
• We have police chief constables declaring they would not ride a bike on the roads they are responsible for.  This is huge!  I congratulate them for having the courage to speak out.
• Congestion is killing everyone.
• Congestion costs the country billions.
• The NHS is expected to continually sweep up after road crashes, billions lost.
• Air ambulances cannot claim their operating costs when attending road crashes, why are the insurance industry not paying out?
• When you insure your car why is the sum not based on your actual risk but based on subsidising the local nutter to drive his Maserrari Icarus with dump valve, boot speakers and bonnet scoop?  Petrolheads are also funnily enough a group of people, whether they recognise it or not, who should be hacked off by dangerous drivers.
• Ask straight forward questions, report the results to an increasing number of people.  Do you believe an appropriate fine for taking a life whilst being drunk is £180?  No, you don't?  Ok, what price do you think is more appropriate?  Err, £1000.  Really?  Can I buy your life right now for that sum, would you be ok with that?
• If a gunman shoots, kills and serves prison time at what point on their release should the local chief constable make their gun licence available again?  Never.  Never?  So why do we return licences to those who have killed using a car?  Erm. 
• Do you feel the government is in control of the roads?  Yes of course.  Ok, so the injury and death rate is acceptable?  Not acceptable, we're always looking to lower it.  No you are not, David Cameron scrapped targets.
• We actually have a lot of support already, we just need to harness and direct it.

Unless we point spotlights on those who should be forcing change they will remain quite content to do their work in the shadows and allow the motoring industry to fit 32" entertainment screens to the latest Lexus 'as that's what the driver of tomorrow has asked for'. 

The Motor Manufacturers Society have made it clear that they are focused purely on the interests of the profits to be made for their members.  If Lexus want to stick a widescreen TV in their car for a driver to watch then they will...as long as they put a small sticker somewhere reminding the purchaser that 'a responsible driver should not operate the TV whilst the vehicle is moving' then all good. 

There is a lot that we allow to go unchallenged for no good reason.  They are just people and for the most part we can and should be asking more of them.  I for example would be keen to learn which car is involved in the largest number of fatalities. 

Once we had learned from the insurance industry that it's an X we can exploit that and ask the manufacturer to comment on how they feel about their product being responsinle for so many funerals.  It's not the car they will argue, but the driver.  Ok, what steps are you taking with all your might and secret backbench lobbying to ensure such drivers can't access your vehicle and paint such an ugly picture?

Expose, expose, expose.  The world is a flippant place and in some cases, such as government and business, people only care when they need to be seen to be doing that.

Shine that light, share it, ask those questions, ridicule inactivity.

From the latest figures I can find, there were 1713 fatalities resulting fom road accidents in 2013, of which 109 were cyclists. Roughly one cyclist is killed per every 10 deaths to motorcyclists and car occupants.

Why aren't people protesting about this?

Maybe because the situation is improving, and rapidly too. The number of deaths in road accidents has practically halved since 2000. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/fil...

Better driving standards, car technology, the increased use of Hi-Viz and crash helmets by responsible cyclists, faster emergency services training and response times have all combined to reduce the number of fatalities on Britain's roads during a time when our population has increased.

Electric cars will be the solution to reducing vehicle emissions to zero and (semi)driverless cars will also in my opinion increasingly contribute to reduced fatalities on the road.

In this context, the wider public might wonder what on earth you have to complain about.

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I see no more point in reports like this...don't we already know we are second class citizens and should all expect to be maimed or killed at some point?

Again 109 deaths out of 1713 ... that doesn't sound like victimisation to me.

The uncomfortable truth is that anyone complaining about the nature and volume of traffic on the roads is a hypocrite, unless maybe they live like Tom and Barbara in The Good Life. Every brick in your house, every scrap of furniture, stitch of clothing and bite of food that you eat every day would not exist without the motorised vehicle. Not even your bicycle and gear. The emissions that we don't generate as a result of walking and cycling for personal transport is miniscule compared to the emissions generated by the production of every thing we own, wear, eat, live in and indeed ride.

The uncomfortable truth is that we do not want to live like peasants any more. Our comfortable consumer society requires motorised transport in order to function and any form of transport implies risk and possibly pollution. The truth is, wider society is comfortable with the level of perceived risk. Some cyclists are not, even though the statistical evidence maybe demonstrates that they should be.

The best we can do is take steps to reduce emissions as far as possible and minimise the risks to ourselves and others through the use of technology and by using the roads responsibly, but accidents will happen and demonising people for making a genuine error of judgement is unhelpful to say the least.

Finally, be careful what you wish for. Should you successfully make the case that bicycles cannot co-exist with motorised transport, the solution is obvious. Ban bicycles from the roads. Every time, I see an HGV, I know that it is making an essential journey. They are expensive to buy and expensive to run and companies do not run them for fun. They are transporting people or goods that people want / need and are therefore good for the economy.

So if you have a campaign in mind, my advice would be that you need to have a specific target  that the majority can get behind. Tougher penalties for those convicted of reckless / dangerous driving, more emphasis on cycling safety in the driving test etc are things that I think could achieve a consensus.

A broad brush attack on motoring / motorists will fall on deaf ears and just leave you wide open to the charge of hypocrite ... unless you live like Tom  & Barbara in The Good LIfe, that is.

Thanks to those emailing.  A modest start is all we need.  Initial emails confirm the frustration, anger and passion out there for change. 

I'm not much of a twitter or FB user either but I'm happy to swap email addresses: I'll drop IMC a mail. Let's keep it pretty public on here too though.

Hi all.

I got a gopro the other day and I've just sat and done a few very shoddy test pieces.  I am intending to put something reasonably intelligent together that encompasses our feelings.

In my life I've met some genuinely incredible people, don't know about your experiences but 'sports/alive' people are just a good bunch.

My intentions are to produce something as a starting point and post it to youtube perhaps, get a channel etc and give it some credibility.  I can't be arsed generally with Faceache and Twitter etc but the reality is the social access they can give you is unprecedented so we need to embrace.

I think the time has come at last for us to start standing up and be counted.  Sure, this very modest start is just that...but the longest journey starts with a single step.

I should perhaps buy some wisdom filled books as I'm not enlightened enough to fill posts with similar snippets!

I'll happily post my email here for anyone to get in touch who has ideas, constructive feedback and criticism, even just the plain desire not to be roadkill, so we can go from there.

Could be a heck of a journey but when a fruit is ripe it needs eating.  Wow, not even bought that book yet

Contact is - getcole at europe.com

Thanks to all.

ironmancole, brooksby, davel and mrmo and anyone else for that matter.  Just had a long think about this.  How about we see if we can start something?  I'm not much of a Twitter user (I'm The Goat) - just been using it recently to understand whats happening in cycle safety.  How about direct messaging me and we can exchange contact details?

Excellent, some common recognition and we can all quickly put together the issues out there.

I think we need to ignore politicians to an extent...with exception to a few the majority are puppets and will only do what the latest Twitter scandal dictates is popular.  They repeatedly seem incapable or unwilling to do what is needed rather than what allows them to fly under the radar and avoid rocking any boats.

Parliament is therefore, very sadly, somewhere to go to once we've actually put the early efforts in to allow them to get involved without them getting scared they'll lose authority.

It's perverted and makes complete mockery of their central role, which is actually to safeguard and act for the good of the people and not for the good of whoever is able to shout the loudest and stamp their feet.

The avenues are I believe numerous and that's a good starting point:

• Environmental.  We've already in certain places in the UK used up the allowances for dirty air this year and we're only in February.  Cycling therefore is clearly something that MUST be encouraged, therefore the barriers to people doing just that must be removed.  Government should be driving this and if they are not as they are under the motor lobbying hypnotist we should as a group challenge at EU level their well documented refusal to make the roads safer to get people on their bikes.
• No confidence.  The Department for Transport should I believe be renamed the Department for Motorised Transport as they do not represent me as a cyclist, just when I get into my car.  There is obvious inequality here.  Indeed, a look a few weeks ago revealed that they have commissioned a report into the satisfaction of motorised road users but I could not see a similar satisfaction survey for cyclists.  Why?
• The police.  Why are they so disenchanted leading to in many cases a complete disinterest in enforcing the law of the road.  It is if we're being picky an abandonment of duty (of sorts) and given people are being maimed, killed and just generally intimidated their failure to stamp all over it is actually scandalous and inhumane.  They need help, government are again failing to give them that help.  Why?  Who is creating the barriers here?  What are the hidden agendas or where is the self interest that is so costly to us all?
• Resource allocation.  Percentage wise the amount spent on sustainable transport is not aligned with the transport modes, far too much of it is essentially redirected towards motorised traffic.  We all pay for this public resource so funds should be allotted accordingly and particularly towards the areas government supposedly makes noise about wanting to improve eg cycling and walking!
• Judiciary.  Currently a disgrace.  Panorama filmed a documentary maybe a year ago about killer drivers and the punishments are at best, wholly offensive.  A man was fined more in one court for 'causing undue distress to a squirrel' than another man for driving into a line of stopped traffic and killing a father sat in his car.  That is not ok!  Authorities need to be called to account and the key individuals in those authorities questioned about what is going on.  What are their barriers, who is allowing this to happen?  Point the finger, put the pressure on, capture public disgust.
• Inequality. If cyclists achieved just 0.1% of the injury and death rate motorists are currently at there would be a national outpouring, led by the likes of 'crusade journalism' like the Mirror and the Sun.  Killer Cyclist Outrage blah blah blah.  Politicians would have to act.  So, why the obvious inequality?
• Insurance Industry.  A vast area that needs to be attacked.  In essence a corporation or individual gets to gamble with the lives of the public by competing with other providers to put someone back on the road.  By its competitive nature prices will fall thereby accelerating the chances that a dangerous and or plain incompetent person can get back behind the wheel of a lethal weapon.  The insurance industry will duck this aspect of their contribution to 'road safety' by pointing the finger at the courts and the government who of course allow such people to access and operate such weaponry through apathy and fear of a Top Gear presenter having a go at them.  It's pathetic, plain immoral and of course just dangerous.
• Motor Industry Emission Lies.  Today figures show 40,000 premature deaths per year in the U.K. due to vehicle air poisoning.  That is basically a form of genocide, or one of the 'cides' at least.  Just who is going to be held responsible here?  I suspect a low level scapegoat for public relations purposes with the overall agenda being business as usual.  If in contrast someone in the water industry had added a toxic substance to the reservoirs resulting in such catastrophic casualty rates we'd be looking at corporate manslaughter charges with the health and safety executive going ballistic.  Cars of course will enjoy all manner of exemptions, again simply not ok.

You can write about the avenues for hours, there are no shortages of points to be made or arguments to be had, which is daunting, but also fertile ground for a driven group of people to develop and harvest.

A vehicle is just a product, that is all.  It has however been allowed to dominate every aspect of our lives and more worryingly, allowed to expedite our deaths.  Government is supposedly a collection of well educated and well meaning people, supposedly elected to act in the best interests of us all but instead we see them sidestepping, procrastinating and essentially doing nothing to make things better. 

They are accountable to us, they should have to explain why it's ok to kill with a vehicle and face such low punishments.  They should have to answer the myriad of questions we all have.  Individually we will remain ignored but together they will have to start responding.

I have been hit by drivers a couple of times and luckily no injuries at worst a little damage to the bike. When you go to the police station to report "dangerous" driving, the response is invariably the same. They simply don't care. 

My BiL lost his leg to a drunk driver, the driver had already had two convictions, the police screwed up the blood test so no evidence that he had been drink driving, the witness accounts were clear he had. He was then finally imprisoned when he caused another crash through drink driving. 

How can we have a system where repeated driving offences are merely ignored?  There is no collation of accidents numbers, so even the stats that are published under report the situation. 

Until drivers realise that they are on licence and that infractions have consequences what hope do we have? But then what ELECTED poltician will do anything that might curtail the "rights" of their electorate? 

I think the argument needs to be on two fronts.

The first would be all the evidence that points to cycling (all modes) being better for the country: the fitness, productivity, reduction in congestion, infrastructure costs, NHS savings etc etc etc. That's a relatively easy argument to make - the country needs more cycling and less motoring.

Unfortunately, logical arguments that point to evidence don't make the news. They might make the comments of a related news article, buried in a few pages of foaming at the mouth.

The second front would be human interest. Unfortunately, nowadays, this is how Shit Gets Done Quickly. No matter how worthy a cause is, it gets ignored until something pulls at heart strings and goes viral (I'm thinking the recent meningitis vaccine petition; the Syrian lad washed up on the beach etc). Many decent people (real kids, mums, dads, brothers, sisters) have died for nothing more than just riding a bike, and the penalty for carelessly taking their life has barely been a slap on the wrist.

Cyclists making any argument are often logical and reasonable, and rely on the first route, which is largely good for preaching to the converted. What 'we' should be doing more of is making bored housewives and S*n readers blow up facebook with a photo.

Now here's the bit you'd laugh at if it were not so absurd and anger provoking. At the bottom of all that death, mayhem and destruction is a link so that the motorists who are still alive can find out how to avoid getting caught driving like morons.

Seemingly no intelligence at all. Not only do motorists get to find out where to briefly behave themselves, they are secondly shown where they can definitely drive dangerously without the inconvenience of having the police ask any questions of them. Really, you can't make this stuff up.

Someone somewhere is responsible for things like this and they shoukd be called to account. How can they possibly argue road safety is important when stuff like this is the norm? #takingthepiss

Another page of carnage and misery...

Here is an example of the engineered insanity we should be attacking. Look at these screenshots from an Essex 'travel' site.

Yeah, can be contentious. However, as a constructive point frustration with the police is common. After the first crash that ended my road racing my mother went to collect what was left of my bike and given the driver had been on the wrong side of the road she was naturally very angry and still going through a very difficult period as I was in hospital undergoing all sorts of neurological tests.

After making an inquiry about evidence gathering she was told directly that 'she had watched too much TV' and that even pursuing any kind of conviction was highly unlikely as there had been no independent witnesses.

This was clearly disgraceful and sure enough the driver escaped prosecution. However, I also recognise that the police are given a dire toolkit to work with and frequently share the same anger  as road victims.

I personally know a firearms officer, an anti terrorist officer who was formally a senior murder investigation officer, an undercover officer dealing with anti corruption (you never get full details for obvious reasons) and two beat bobbies, between them working in the Met and the home counties.

What I have learned about the police is they are generally all well meaning and highly motivated but also share frustrations they are powerless to change and that runs across the whole policing area, not just road crime.

So, it's fair to look at areas the police should be sharper on but we must focus on the toolmakers, not just the tool users. Secondly, any group that fights amongst itself will always fail.

It is vital we can align and self support or once more we achieve nothing but waste time and feed the very problem we collectively strive to overcome.

Cheers, excellent and very common complaint.

The issue here then if I may is that such passes are so commonplace they have become the norm, in combination with unwillingness to enforce the law and the sheer number of incidents every minute throughout the UK such conduct remains unchallenged.

Now, pick any object up and walk down the high street swinging it (or your fists for that matter) in close proximity to people and the police will not only attend, they will take it seriously.

This therefore becomes something that must be changed, however hard it may seem right here and now. We challenge why doing the above in the street is unacceptable, then force official response as to why using a vehicle is acceptable.

What exemptions have been extended to the motor vehicle? Where are they written? Where's the equality? Replicate across the country, paint a picture and weed out the people standing in the way.

Thanks Davel.

We need a lot to happen and it's become clear that government will do nothing for us...so as an increasingly growing group we have to do it ourselves.

Martin Luther King was simply a human being like the rest of us who decided the racist segregation and everyday abuse had to end.

We too must start moving in the same direction and make ourselves heard. We'll see what posts follow of course

I'm in.

It's a political issue - we need dangerous/careless driving to be seen as antisocial as drink driving, and we need the campaigns that that had. We also need sentencing broadly increased, which is a government petition?

How much does a TV campaign cost? Beyond the fundraising capacity of a national charity?

I don't even know what to think or write anymore, other than the obvious condolescences to loved ones etc.

I see no more point in reports like this...don't we already know we are second class citizens and should all expect to be maimed or killed at some point?

What I just don't get time and time again is where our collective backbone has gone as a much victimised group of human beings simply trying to exercise our, at the very least, moral right to get from A to B safely.

Why are we not shouting, kicking and screaming?  Sure I'll perhaps get online grief from a few others but frankly I'd be relieved to see signs of some emotion out there...perhaps there is still a minsicule of hope.

Here's the facts as I see it.

• Petitions asking our MPs to get involved are pointless.
• Successive governments have already approved your death by refusing to act.
• The motoring industry have you repressed under their thumb.
• Countless charities and bereaved groups along with university and academic research keep pointing out the obvious but are ignored.
• I can get in a car, not even mine, and go and kill your family.  It will be by legal default, 'an accident', thereby allowing the court to go softly on me. 
• I will pay maybe £160 for the life of your loved one. 
• I probably will not go to prison. 
• I will have points added to my licence, even if I don't have one, and if I exceed 12 points I simply cry and complain I'll have to walk 200 metres a day and that's hardship so the judge will give my licence back to me. 
• I will be hounded by specialist insurance companies looking to get me back on the road as cheaply as possible with no regard whatsoever for my fitness to actually be there.  The lives of society are entirely secondary to their private profit targets. I can then go and kill some more people accidentally and once more it will not matter or even be my fault. 
• No-one will take my licence from me as 'I have a right'.
• Even cycling sites are plagued with car advertising like the SEAT SUV I can see to the right of this post.  Insensitive?  Well, would you take out an advert for your company flogging a Yaeger Bomb deal on Alcoholics Anonymous?
• Knives, steps, electricity sockets without plastic covers, worktop corners, hot coffee that you asked for, baths without suction mats, tippex, skateboards, horses, loud music, salty food, sitting for ages, flashing images in a movie, household boilers, heelies, boomerangs, conkers, drills, running in a corridor, sucking helium from a balloon...is all 'dangerous' according to our society.
• In contrast operating a couple of tonnes of fast moving metal in close proximity to soft squishy people whilst demonstrating aggression and impatience leading to the entirely preventable taking of life is...careless.

It goes on.

There are a lot of us.  There are rules.  There are human rights.  There are morals.  We have access to powerful online media sites to communicate with everyone in an instant. We are all, I presume?, absolutely pissed off with the way things are.

So why, can so many get together to vote the latest X Factor puppet into celebrity or ring some crappo daytime TV show up to win a free weekend at a glamping site but between us why are we wholly incapable of forming a focused, committed, passionate and life changing pressure group with the motto essentially being 'Enough is enough'?

Unless we bloody do something we might as well all go lay on the motorway now with our bikes and just get it over with.

Please, for the love of all things holy, can we get something moving.  We have amongst us legal professionals, motivation, anger, all manner of resources, passion, a reason to live, a shared love of life and the will to make things better.  Not in the next decade or maybe in a few years (that won't ever come) but right now.

We can't keep leaving Boardman out in the cold, he can only do so much.  If you want to go out training or just take your kids out in peace on their bikes without the constant fear of violence you have to step up.

As a former roadie with british cycling who was hit by a motorist at 21 years of age and left with a hypoxic head injury I've been there.  I've been 'handled' by the 'justice' system and for those lucky enough not to have been through that I can tell you it's dire.  I've lost a 5 year sister in a car 'accident' and watched the driver of the HGV involved wriggle out of responsibility on various technicalities and all manner of legal loopholes and pandering. 

Most recently I've been driven at by a formerly banned motorist in a powerful black mustang of all things on a quiet country road, probably small penis syndrome, and now I'm dealing with chronic PTSD bought on basically by years of abuse from drivers who quite simply should not be trusted with a killing machine.  I think that makes me very qualified when it comes to being absolutely hacked off with the way things are.  I have ideas, I want to change things right now.  Question is do you?

I can't keep reading about this incessent violence and intimidation at the hands of irresponsible people who just so happen to use vehicles to suppress other human beings.

This is a unique situation, in no other avenue of life would you expect or be expected to put up with this form of discrmination/threat/misconduct/bullying or whatever label is most appropriate.  So, why is each of us seemingly so content to little more than read about it and post comments to let steam off, which we all recognise is doing nothing to make tomorrow a better place.

Please add thoughts below.  Be candid, be angry but please be something more than tomorrows Roadcc story, each of us are so much more valuable than that.

Thank you.

Quote:

“The man driving the 4x4 was uninjured.”

You think???  I think this demonstrates just how dangerous cyclists can be, and why cyclists need to take just as much care around motor vehicles, as motor vehicles should around cyclists; clearly, sharing the road places the burden equally on all road users. {/end sarcasm}