Third cyclist killed on London Cycle Superhighway, tipper lorry involved

William Black wrote:

Surely it's time for the DVLA to seriously reconsider the standards required to pass the HGV licence?

They are without question some of the most lethal vehicles on the road but seem to be driven almost exclusively by labrador brained knucleheads, that's not to say that any vehicle cannot be driven by similarly labrador brained knucleheads but HGVs by their very nature are more dangerous. [/sweeping generalisations regarding fat lorry drivers>

A bit extreme, isn't it? As a C+E licence holder, I'd say the testing standards in the UK are among the highest within the EU, We now have to undertake regular professional competence training by law, and stringent medical testing starts when you reach the age of 45. All measures far beyond those required of other drivers.

It isn't so much the standard of training that is the problem, it is the degree of pressure to which the driver is exposed which increases the chances of a fatal "accident". If firms pay "by the load", or make the "delivery window" quite difficult to achieve in heavy traffic, you just know that safety will be compromised. Subcontracting means that you can ligitimately distance your own organisation from certain health and safety issues. Utter the right sysmpathetic platitudes, instigate another "driver awareness" program, but make sure those contractors keep their trucks rolling ever faster.

My condolances to the family and friends of the cyclist who died today. Very sad.

Neil753 wrote:

William Black wrote:

Surely it's time for the DVLA to seriously reconsider the standards required to pass the HGV licence?

They are without question some of the most lethal vehicles on the road but seem to be driven almost exclusively by labrador brained knucleheads, that's not to say that any vehicle cannot be driven by similarly labrador brained knucleheads but HGVs by their very nature are more dangerous. [/sweeping generalisations regarding fat lorry drivers>

A bit extreme, isn't it? As a C+E licence holder, I'd say the testing standards in the UK are among the highest within the EU, We now have to undertake regular professional competence training by law, and stringent medical testing starts when you reach the age of 45. All measures far beyond those required of other drivers.

It isn't so much the standard of training that is the problem, it is the degree of pressure to which the driver is exposed which increases the chances of a fatal "accident". If firms pay "by the load", or make the "delivery window" quite difficult to achieve in heavy traffic, you just know that safety will be compromised. Subcontracting means that you can ligitimately distance your own organisation from certain health and safety issues. Sack the driver, utter the right sysmpathetic platitudes, instigate another "driver awareness" program, but make sure those contractors keep their trucks rolling ever faster.

My condolances to the family and friends of the cyclist who died today. Very sad.

Unfortunately there are many driving in the UK on EU licenses and other countries licenses of dubious validity.

Neil753 wrote:

It isn't so much the standard of training that is the problem, it is the degree of pressure to which the driver is exposed which increases the chances of a fatal "accident". If firms pay "by the load", or make the "delivery window" quite difficult to achieve in heavy traffic, you just know that safety will be compromised. Subcontracting means that you can ligitimately distance your own organisation from certain health and safety issues.

I do agree entirely with this point though. The issues with HGVs go well beyond any individual driver.

Neil753 wrote:

William Black wrote:

[/sweeping generalisations regarding fat lorry drivers>

A bit extreme, isn't it? As a C+E licence holder, I'd say the testing standards in the UK are among the highest within the EU, We now have to undertake regular professional competence training by law, and stringent medical testing starts when you reach the age of 45. All measures far beyond those required of other drivers.

Perhaps, and I did add the "sweeping generalisations" bit as I'm all too aware there are numerous exceptions to any rule.

But as the 'Shouty Man Troll' has demonstrated so wonderfully, when lorry (again citing the exceptions to the rule) drivers don't even have the slightest clue as to why a cyclist in a narrow lane might want to place himself bang in the middle, and think he's 'deliberately trying to hold up traffic'** rather than just protect himself, it just seems to me we're banging heads against a brick wall and only continued driver education can save us.

** One of the best retorts to this was by a rider in the team of a friend doing JOGLE with a big support van tailing them. They pulled in to a 'greasy spoon' layby for a refresh of bottles and all that a few minutes later a driver on the way to the burger van see's them all and remarks 'oh, you're the ones who were holding up the traffic back there' rider replies quite simply with "we are traffic" bloke didn't have a response to that one.