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Cyclists horrified at “dehumanising” language in House of Lords debate, including comparing cyclists to “plague of mosquitos”; Mix-up at mixed relay time trial; Why should two people with two bikes need 30+ train tickets? + more on the live blog

Welcome to the Friday live blog one and all, where Adwitiya will have all the cycling news, views and reaction as you daydream about your weekend rides
13 September 2024, 15:39
Cyclists horrified at the “disgusting, dehumanising” language in House of Lords debate, including comparisons with a “plague of mosquitos”

While it was to be somewhat expected, the cycling debate in the House of Lords did somehow manage to exceed out wildest expectations, adding new vocabulary to the anti-cycling bingo that we honestly could do without.

In the eye of the storm was Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick, who in a long-winded speech, touched on a number of bingo topics, blaming the rise in thefts on cycling, expressed his agreement with former Met chief Lord Hogan-Howe about enacting mandatory registration plates for cyclists, and culminated with comparing cyclists to a “plague of mosquitos”.

“I believe we need regulation for current cyclists because their behaviour is, at times, becoming a bit like plague of mosquitoes. You simply cannot get them away from you when you get to traffic lights,” said Hastings, who is listed as a Crossbench peer.

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick said that the behaviour of cyclists is like a "plague of mosquitos"

Transport journalist Carlton Reid tweeted about Hasting’s comments, saying: “In effect, he's saying there are too many cyclists. (And they wait at traffic lights, as many videos on here attest.)”

“This othering is not new. Nor is the use of an insects metaphor any novelty. Here's town planner Thomas Sharp in the 1940s discussing the cyclists of Oxford, and calling them a ‘plague of locusts.’”

The comments of course have left cyclists horrified, with Julian Antoniewicz saying: “Blows my mind that I'm seeing dehumanising language in regard to cyclists all around the globe, in many languages. Worldwide bikes are causing insignificant amount of deaths or injuries, but it sure is trendy to farm outrage on someone who ran a red light on an empty street.”

Christopher Lang wrote: “You would think with someone with his experience, he would realise how dehumanising this language is. It using ‘mosquito’ conjuring up thoughts of disease carrying and plague something overwhelming to be controlled, rather than protected. He should know better.”

Meanwhile, another person wrote: “For a supposedly crossbench peer, he sounds remarkably right-wing. His language is appalling.”

> “Many may consider this to be a vote loser, but I think it is a vote winner”: Insurance for cyclists debated in House of Lords, and quickly shut down as “utterly ridiculous and unenforceable”

The debate was started off by Lord Hogan-Howe, who of course began ticking off the classic, easy bingo number: “I want to make it clear at the beginning that I am not anti-cyclist, because some may allege otherwise. I cycle myself.

“I am not going to say that cyclists are the only threat because that would be quite wrong, but there is a case for making sure that pedestrians are protected from the behaviour of bad cyclists and cyclists who behave badly.”

He added: “There is a further offence, a very old one from the Offences against the Person Act 1861, called furious driving of a carriage. Obviously that law was for other times, but cycling can be pulled within it if there is a serious injury.”

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe and Boris Johnson

Lord Hogan-Howe and Boris Johnson

In case you need a quick refresher on Lord Hogan-Howe’s previous trespasses, in 2013, the former Met chief, still in the role at the time, said that he wouldn’t ride a bike in London by choice and that many Londoners are forced on to two wheels by the cost of public transport.

A decade later, now relieved of his policing duties and sitting in the upper chamber of the Parliament, he claimed that cyclists should need "a registration plate somewhere on the back" in order to avoid being "entirely unaccountable”.

Just a few months ago, Hogan-Howe tried to reignite the insurance debate in the House of Lords, but his machinations were quickly shut down as “utterly ridiculous and unenforceable”.

Back to yesterday's speech, where he continued: “Cyclists are not even bound by speed limits. When I first raised this issue in the House, I mistakenly believed that they were; I had just forgotten that they are not. Cycles can go any speed in an urban environment, or any environment.

“Cycles can of course get to high speeds. For fit people, through muscle power, 30 miles an hour is easily attainable on the flat, and certainly downhill. With electric assistance, that is even easier.”

At least there was some levity provided by Lord Austin of Dudley, who continued his string of rebuking Hogan-Howe’s claims (he had previously shut him down during the insurance debate too — hear hear), this time saying: “I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, because if he thinks it is easy to ride a bike at 30mph on the flat, he should have been in the British Olympic team and not a Member of the House of Lords.”

13 September 2024, 15:04
How many tickets would you need for two people to go from Manchester to Scarborough?

The amusing state of railways has been highlighted by Markus Stitz, a cyclist from Edinburgh who posted a confusing picture of a pile of at least 30 National Rail tickets — all booked for just two people and their bicycles to travel from Manchester from Scarborough, who wrote: "Two people & bikes - two journeys from Manchester to Scarborough - This is the pile of tickets. It’s rather comical."

Pile of tickets for 2 people and their bikes (Twitter: @reizkultur)

He told road.cc: "I think it is rather amusing, I actually bought the tickets for two German bike journalists, who are cycling a loop around the North York Moors NP and Route YC. This is what is needed for a return journey from Manchester to Scarborough with two bikes.

"It would be a bit easier if it could all be on a PDF - but that's what it is... On the positive side - I got bike reservations and it's a good connection, only changing once in York."

13 September 2024, 08:07
“Luckily there are brakes on time trial bikes”: German mixed relay team almost crash into each other on the changeover at the European championships

Things got a little too close for comfort at the European championships yesterday as the German mixed relay team had a heart-in-mouth moment, almost taking each other out at the changeover.

The European mixed relay team time trial championships, taking place in Limburg, had two different routes for the men’s and women’s riders — the three men from participating teams riding pretty much the same course as the individual TT (won by Italy’s Edoardo Affini), before the women finished off with couple of more technical laps in the east side of Hasselt

But as the German men’s team finished their route, they continued going straight on after their finish line, eventually spilling over onto the women’s course with no barrier to stop them — and that’s when the what could have been a very embarrassing, costly and amateurish mistake took place — as the three women rides were already riding their circuit and came on from the other side, almost running straight into one male riders.

2024 European Champs Mixed Relay route

The cameras followed the men as they slowed down after finishing their course and kept riding ahead, with the commentators taken by surprise as well. “Oh! of course they already finished,” said the Eurosport commentator. “As the men finish, they go straight on and they end up on the women’s course which is why they were trying to stop them.

“Luckily there are brakes on time trial bikes. An unpleasant… an undignified incident if you got knocked off by one of your own teammates who just finished. That would be… not good. I have the feeling a barrier wouldn’t have been the worst idea there.”

The race was eventually won by the Italian team, the men and women riders completing their course with a combined time of one hour and two minutes. Germany, despite their close encounters, managed to finish second, while Belgium came in third position.

13 September 2024, 14:12
"People pay good money for clothes so elegantly torn": Another tale from the Trench Tales

Nothing some duct tape won't fix...

13 September 2024, 11:57
That's one way to take your bike on the train... ft. Red Bull and David Godziek

Let me know if anyone else also got duped by the bizarre camera angles conjuring an illusion that the train was crossing a bridge over a ravine (my heart did skip a beat when David jumped off the train — only to realise there was nothing to fear).

13 September 2024, 11:06
Ineos Grenadiers, 2024 Tour of Britain (Elliot Keen/British Cycling/via SWpix.com)
“Pogačar and Vingegaard are going to be hard to topple”: Geraint Thomas and Luke Rowe say Ineos Grenadiers need some “honest conversations in the mirror” and just get back to winning some bike races

It’s not a good time for Ineos Grenadiers fans — so you can only imagine what it would be like being an Ineos staff or a rider.

The “doom and gloom” stories surrounding the British team that won it all and dominated professional cycling for years in the 2010s have been on the news cycle quite regularly, with Luke Rowe sharing some damning assessments about the team’s results at the Vuelta last week.

Tom Pidcock, gold medal winner for Great Britain at the Paris Olympic mountain race and arguably the team’s biggest star also spoke up about his discontentment with the team after failing to impress at the Tour of Britain, saying that there are a “number of issues” with Ineos and that “they don’t help him to perform at his best”.

> “It’s not prettier than it is, and the podium is just very far away”: Luke Rowe joins chorus of discontent as Ineos Grenadiers struggle in Spain at the Vuelta

And now, the Welsh duo of Luke Rowe and Geraint Thomas, chatting on their podcast Watts Occuring, have voiced similar concerns once again. Rowe said: “Whilst at the outside it’s a lot of doom and gloom at the moment, what I’d say is I’ve got a belief that the people within the organisation have the belief and passion to get back on top. But it’s a long process.”

The 2018 Tour de France winner Geraint Thomas, agreeing with his countryman, said: “I don’t think there’s just one thing. There’s a load of things but they all add up. There isn’t one silver bullet that is the reason why we’ve struggled a bit this year for results.

“For now, the main goal should be, as a team, we need to be the best and strongest and unified. We’re in it together, we’re all moving in the same direction. We’ve got these big goals and aspirations but let’s just get back to winning some bike races.

“Let’s face it, Pogacar and Vingegaard are going to be hard to topple, but there’s still a hell of a lot of other races and there’s still a lot of good bike riders in the team. You can still get a lot of success.

“It’s just been close but no cigar this year a lot of times, and it’s just turning that around a bit. But we’ve still got the right guys around to do that. But it definitely needs a few honest conversations in the mirror this November and December for sure.”

> “To be honest, they don’t help me to perform at my best”: Tom Pidcock admits there are “a number of issues” within Ineos Grenadiers, as pressure mounts on underperforming British team after subpar Tour of Britain and Vuelta

With rumours of Pidcock following in the footsteps of Dan Bigham to join Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe rife in the peloton, following a pattern of big-name riders such Tao Geoghegan Hart also leaving the team, one would expect the British team to get its act together sooner than later. But with owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe finding himself between a rock and a hard place, in trying to steady the sinking ship of Manchester United on the football side of things, it doesn’t bode very well for the cycling team.

13 September 2024, 10:41
"That's a rock"... Lump of grease removed from Tern e-bike by mechanic
“That’s more like a rock”: Cyclists horrified at lump of grease removed by mechanic from bike fitter’s Tern e-bike

A pitiful situation for any cyclist to be in, but maybe just a tad bit embarrassing too when you get the good ol’ telling off from your local bike shop’s mechanic.

That’s what happened to Kate Corden, who runs the Hackney Bike Fit service when she took her Tern e-bike to London Bike Studio for a check-up, and sharing an image of the lump of grease mechanic Cameron managed to get off the jockey wheels, cyclists on social media were left horrified.

“I got told off today,” wrote Kate. “I was having my lunch when he came out and showed me. Another mechanic came out too, shaking his head at me.”

Ouch, not just one, but disappointing two mechanics at once… that’s going to sting.

She added: “To be fair to me, it’s a 33kg ebike with a chain protector plate, so actually getting it in a position to clean is pretty hard. Which is why I’ve never done it… It’s pretty hard to clean a massively heavy long tail e bike. Unless you have the kind of industrial bike lift that London Bike Studio has of course.”

Some didn’t miss this opportunity to have a little fun though, with replies reading: “I've seen worse, but it's a very low bar,” and “That's a few extra Watts gained.”

Kate also mentioned that the the dirt and grime accumulated is a result of the Tern replacing their family car. “It’s ridden over many parks and the Hackney Marshes with 2 kids on the back,” she said.

You know what, fair play, then! But nonetheless, down this goes in our list of bike servicing nightmares…

13 September 2024, 10:25
Hit-and-run driver who left cyclist begging for help and needing his leg amputated, before selling car to cover up role in crash, jailed for three years and nine months
Moment before shocking crash which left cyclist needing leg amputated in Cardiff (South Wales Police)

A motorist has been sentenced to three years and nine months in prison after hitting a cyclist, leaving the victim with such serious injuries that he later lost his leg, before driving off and selling their car to cover up their role in the shocking crash.

> Hit-and-run driver who left cyclist begging for help and needing his leg amputated, before selling car to cover up role in crash, jailed for three years and nine months

13 September 2024, 09:36
Is this the new Cannondale Synapse? After Lachlan Morton's most astonishing 'Lap of Australia' effort yet, here's what we know about his new bike so far
Lachlan Morton Cannondale Sept 2024

The WorldTour Pro-turned ultra endurance record breaker Lachlan Morton is continuing to make outrageous progress in his effort to break the Guinness World Record for the fastest 'lap' of Australia, and it appears his team's bike sponsor Cannondale has equipped him with a brand new steed to (hopefully) smash the record with.

> Is this the new Cannondale Synapse? After Lachlan Morton's most astonishing 'Lap of Australia' effort yet, here's what we know about his new bike so far

13 September 2024, 08:44
Lael Wilcox smashes women’s Around the World cycling record – But what does ‘circumnavigating the globe by bike’ actually entail?
Lael Wilcox completes Around the World record ride (Rue Kaladyte)

On Wednesday evening, American ultra-endurance cyclist Lael Wilcox arrived back in Chicago 108 days, 12 hours, and 12 minutes after setting off from the Windy City with the aim of being officially recognised as the fastest ever woman to circumnavigate the globe by bike.

In between, the 38-year-old Alaskan cycled 18,125 miles, through 22 countries and across four continents, complete with a total elevation gain of 192,024 metres (almost four times the climbing involved at this year’s Tour de France).

And she did so by covering around 168 miles, or 270km, a day, at an average moving speed of 14.42mph that saw her beat Scottish cyclist Jenny Graham’s previous around the world record of 124 days and 11 hours from 2018 by more than two weeks.

> Lael Wilcox smashes women’s Around the World cycling record – But what does ‘circumnavigating the globe by bike’ actually entail?

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

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44 comments

Avatar
Rome73 | 4 weeks ago
10 likes

Cycles can of course get to high speeds. For fit people, through muscle power, 30 miles an hour is easily attainable on the flat, and certainly downhill. With electric assistance, that is even easier.”

no it isn't mate. 

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anke2 | 4 weeks ago
9 likes

I'd rather be a mosquito than a dinosaur...

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ktache | 4 weeks ago
0 likes

The most in depth reporting of this one. 28 day trial, from other sources.

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/24578511.verdict-given-murder-tr...

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levestane | 4 weeks ago
1 like

I wonder what Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick's ecological footprint is, I think we should be told.

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eburtthebike | 4 weeks ago
11 likes

You simply cannot get them away from you when you get to traffic lights,” said Hastings, who is listed as a Crossbench peer.

A cross bench peer, surely, as in bench thicker than a plank, and very cross.

I've always been on the fence about reforming the Lords, but if idiots like him are there, reform it tomorrow.  Not that MPs are much better, but at least you can unelect them.

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Born_peddling replied to eburtthebike | 4 weeks ago
4 likes

The house of lords should most definitely be disbanded tax payer money will be saved on keeping a load of bloated lazy farts warm with a place to park their backsides all day long. Surely has to be the most over priced senior daycare centre in the country, send them home honestly no one will notice the difference!

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anke2 replied to eburtthebike | 4 weeks ago
0 likes

Bicameralism is not a concept without merrits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism

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Car Delenda Est replied to eburtthebike | 4 weeks ago
4 likes

Honestly the biggest issue with the Lords at this point is they're appointed by the PM and there's no way to get rid of them once they're too senile to be competent as in this case.

I'd strongly be in favour of a new independent appointment system that brought in actual experts.

That said anything is better than nothing and removing the Lords entirely would be a catastrophic mistake.

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Clem Fandango | 4 weeks ago
15 likes

Mosquitos?
That's nothing. I cycle into that London frequently & in "cycle lanes" & at traffic lights you get swarmed by motorised vehicles. They're like grey squirrels (an invasive species).

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brooksby | 4 weeks ago
0 likes

I recently got rid of the saddle which had been on my commuter since I bought it*, as I thought that it was looking very worn (the nose was starting to come apart).

It looked NOTHING like that Trench Tales saddle… 

 

*The bike, not the saddle

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Kendalred | 4 weeks ago
5 likes

I think the most puzzling aspect about this incident (other than 'why didn't his father use contraception') is why are the plod asking for 'anyone with information'? I suspect had the Beeb not blurred the registration plate out, it would have been clear for all to see?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c1k3k400jk8o

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brooksby replied to Kendalred | 4 weeks ago
8 likes

I don't understand that, when video of incidents like this or photos of obviously illegally parked vehicles are put out on the internet then why bother with blurring the numberplate?

As you say, showing the numberplate might make it a little easier to identify the vehicle and its keeper and thus find the passenger…

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brooksby | 4 weeks ago
8 likes

Peter Walker in the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2024/sep/13/pedalling-...

(EDITED) They've opened it up for comments BTL.  Guess how long it took for someone commenting on 'Five dangers every UK cyclist needs to watch out for' to start on about pavement cycling and RLJ and how that's just as dangerous… no

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DoomeFrog replied to brooksby | 4 weeks ago
8 likes

5 Things Cyclist Should Watch Out For

  1. Right wing gutter press
  2. twitter commentards
  3. Internet Trolls
  4. Police force submission portals
  5. Anything with an engine and 4 or more wheels
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john_smith replied to DoomeFrog | 4 weeks ago
1 like

I find I can cycle quite happily with no regard for the first four.

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Mr Anderson | 4 weeks ago
0 likes

What do we think about the cycling debate in the House of Lords yesterday?

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Tom_77 replied to Mr Anderson | 4 weeks ago
1 like

Mr Anderson wrote:

What do we think about the cycling debate in the House of Lords yesterday?

Transcript is here, haven't read it yet. I assume it's just the usual anti-cycling bollocks.

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hawkinspeter replied to Tom_77 | 4 weeks ago
3 likes

Tom_77 wrote:

Transcript is here, haven't read it yet. I assume it's just the usual anti-cycling bollocks.

I just skimmed through bits of it, but there do seem some well-reasoned pro-cycling responses too.

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quiff replied to Tom_77 | 4 weeks ago
8 likes

Not just anti-cycling. One of them even accuses pedestrians of jaywalking which, as far as I'm aware, is not actually an offence.

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GMBasix replied to quiff | 4 weeks ago
12 likes

It's not an offence. It's  not even a 'thing'. Jaywalking does not exist in the UK.
It's worth noting the broader context of that particular Lord's message, and the fact that he is, in fact, Deputy Chair of the APPCG. Overall, his message was supportive of cyling.

I have to say I was mildly impressed with some of the comments even from Lord H-H, whose debate it was and who proposed registration, insurance and legislation reform. I disagree with his proposals, but he was fairly balanced in expressing them, unlike some subsequent proponents of the motion. He caveated the whole proposal with the overriding need to collect statistics more comprehensively on collisions, injuries and deaths.

I think there is a need to consider the scale of errors/offences by cyclists. That's not unreaosnable. But it has to be balanced with the actual harm caused to others and themselves by those offences. AND it needs ot be balanced with the need that those offences acutally indicate:-

  • If cyclists are running red lights, is it simply antisocial, scoff-law selfishness? Or does it point to a need to be out of the junction before motorsts  get moving?
  • If they are riding on the footway, does that indicate a lack of provision for safe cycling along the routes people need to follow? Does it indicate that indirect cycle provision along certain corridors is not a reasonable response?
  • If they are cycling through no cycling zones, such as shopping centres, does it show the same thing, as well as a failure to disciminate between antisocial cycling and considerate cycling (so let's ban them all as a scattergun approach using draconian PSPOs or similar that don't require objective evidence).

Where Lord H-H proposed licences so that cyclists could be banned as points tot up, is he not aware that a court can already impose a cycling ban on an individual? Is he aware of the level of breaches by drivers whose licence have been suspended? His solution does not add anything to the process of enforcement or the risk of recidivism.

He proposed insurance for cyclists, and I saw a nodding head behind him as he pronounce that cyclists don't have insurance, so recovery of losses by third parties is a civil matter. I hate to inform him (so I'll just shout into this echo chamber here, for now):

  • it is still a civil matter for motorists with (or the estimated 1 million without) insurance... it's just there is a mechanism to expedite the civil process;
  • a healthy proportion of cyclists have at least some insurance, through domestic household insurance which usually bundles the  cover without additional premium;
  • Members of CyclingUK, British Cycling, or affiliated clubs have some level of 3rd party insurance as an unitemised cost of their membership. The combination of these and household cover is several times the minimum cover required for a motorist in a fast, heavy car.
  • Insurance companies themselves [Road.cc] don't think cyclists should be required by law to have insurance.

Cycling on the pavement (not itself an offence*) was raised as an issue - not just chhildren, but adults(!). Let's set aside the fact that some pavements are, in fact, shared paths (rightly or wrongly, in design/safety terms). But of those which are more correctly termed 'footways' (set aside for the use of pedestrians, including those in wheelchairs or some powered mobility vehicles), where an offence remains by cycling on them except to access properties served by dropped kerbs, just as with a motor vehicle:-

  • Not much was said in the debate about the 40 people per year who are killed on footways and verges by motorists;
  • Nobody referred to the introduction of FPNs for cycling on footways in July 1999...
  • Accompanying that introduction, Paul Boateng (Lab), then-Minister for That Sort of Thing wrote to Ben Bradshaw (then-Chair of APPCG), saying, "The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other pavement users."  It remained an offence, but the threshold for enforcement was intended to be that some harm arose from it.
  • At the beginning of 2014, Robert Goodwill (Con), then-Minister for That Sort of Thing re-iterated that message. Police should use their discretion. That is a fudge, of course: anybody who rides on the footway commits an offence, but the fear which causes them to do so is in the police officer's eye to behold, rather than being a matter in which a courteous cyclist may act with confidence. It belies the lack of infrastructure which causes the fear in the first place.
  • The attitude that cyclists must not put pedestrians at risk, while perfectly appropriate in its own right, appears only to be expressed in its own right, while failing to express the same sentiment of how cyclists are treated by motorists in the same concern.

[* cycling on the pavement is not an offence. The modern legal term for that part of the road set aside for pedestirans is "footway". "Pavement" is technically ambiguous, may refer to footways, shared paths, or even non-specific surfacing (a la USA) and should be avoided, with the possible exception of '[avement parking'.]

As has been mentioned, I understand the government response to the debate has summarised that there is nothing to see here.

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quiff replied to GMBasix | 4 weeks ago
2 likes

Good post. To pick one tiny part:

GMBasix wrote:

If cyclists are running red lights, is it simply antisocial, scoff-law selfishness? Or does it point to a need to be out of the junction before motorsts  get moving?​

Obviously it's a mix and varies across the country. But I can say that in the microcosm of my commute through central London, most of which is achieved on wonderful segregated cycle routes (i.e. where good infrastructure has been provided and so there is no such plausible safety justification) red light and pedestrian crossing infractions of the antisocial, scoff-law variety are endemic. It is a microcosm, but it's no doubt one which will be informing those in the Westminster bubble.    

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chrisonabike replied to quiff | 4 weeks ago
0 likes

There is of course not a fixed amount of antisocial, scoff-law selfishness. However i'd say there is bigger picture - how do you want your antisocial, scoff-law transport selfishness served?

We currently have trained, tested and licenced drivers with registered, tested motor vehicles with tax and insurance.
And yet there is certainly such scofflaw behaviour at red lights... What is far more prevalent is the almost standard disregard for laws like driving on the pavement (cycle facility) and "bending the rules" around parking and "loading / picking up".

In fact what is *technically* scoff-law selfishness (and is in reality for eg. those with mobility issues trying to navigate the pavement) will be minimised by people taking about this - until it becomes an "unwritten rule" (eg. get two wheels on the pavement to be pro-social to other motorists).

I think the Noble Lords will - if they're honest and observant - find antisocial, scoff-law selfishness everywhere. They'll find it from our system of mass motoring, they'd certainly find it in places where there is mass cycling (NL, parts of Scandinavia). It's a feature of humans. The question is how we manage it and how we can minimise the negative side effects. IMHO such behaviour from drivers of motor vehicles generally causes worse problems than from cyclists.

That of course depends on how we make space for cycling. It is obviously "worse" where we design crap facilities. Or set up conflict by making cyclists and pedestrians fight over scraps instead of finding space from motor transport.

Of course (a few parts of) London are just beginning a transition - which *might* lead to mass cycling there. So it shouldn't be a surprise that in fact it can be a bit "wild west". If it does surprise people then they haven't understood either cycling or humans - wishful thinking at best...

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Mr Anderson replied to GMBasix | 4 weeks ago
3 likes

I watched about 2/3rds of the debate, as I discovered it when channel hoping.

Most of it seemed reasonably well argued. Lord H-H seemed surprised that the majority of the speeches did not support the idea of licencing or compulsory insurance.

I think greater emphasis should be made to the lack of resources for Policing the highway.  This is the crux of the whole issue about road safety.  By and large, we already have sufficient legislation in place, we just don't have the Police to enforce it.

I do wish they would get on with passing the "Kim Briggs" law ASAP, so we can all move on to the more pressing issues.  The proposed new offence of causing death or serious injury by negligent cycling does not impact 99.9% of cyclists.  Everytime this hits the news, its another opportunity at cyclist bashing!  Please, pass this law and let us focus on improving road safety!!

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hawkinspeter replied to Mr Anderson | 4 weeks ago
5 likes

Mr Anderson wrote:

I do wish they would get on with passing the "Kim Briggs" law ASAP, so we can all move on to the more pressing issues.  The proposed new offence of causing death or serious injury by negligent cycling does not impact 99.9% of cyclists.  Everytime this hits the news, its another opportunity at cyclist bashing!  Please, pass this law and let us focus on improving road safety!!

Yes, the 'Kim Briggs' law won't make any difference to nearly all cyclists, but giving in to the anti-cycling lobby won't keep them quiet, but will instead embolden them to push harder for more anti-cycling laws. Every time this hits the news, it's also an opportunity to try to explain why encouraging cycling actually helps everyone.

Also, it's such a stupid reason for the law when Alliston got punished far more severely than any motorist would and he was found not-guilty of causing her death (assuming that a not guilty verdict for manslaughter would mean that).

The instances where a cyclist could be considered for such a law are so few, but meanwhile we hear frequently of drivers getting away with ridiculously light charges and penalties, even when they are behaving with far more recklessness and danger to others than Alliston ever did. If we're going to tighten up the law, then the careless/dangerous laws need to be applied consistently and meaningfully.

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Mr Anderson replied to hawkinspeter | 4 weeks ago
3 likes

The proposed law regarding cyclists is very interesting, and possibly establishes an argument for a change to the driving equivalents.

"Causing death or serious injury, by careless or dangerous cycling" is proposed, as one all encompassing offence.  I have long argued the distinction of CDOSI by careless driving, or CDOSI by dangerous driving be abolished and replaced by one charge of causing death or serious injury by negligent driving. Therefore, we remove the temptation of the Police and/or CPS for opting for the lesser charge.

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quiff replied to Mr Anderson | 4 weeks ago
0 likes
Mr Anderson wrote:

"Causing death or serious injury, by careless or dangerous cycling" is proposed, as one all encompassing offence.

I don't know if the new government has proposed a new bill yet, but that's not how Iain Duncan Smith's amendment to the last bill worked - that created separate offences of (a) death by dangerous cycling, (b) serious injury by dangerous cycling, and (c) death by careless or inconsiderate cycling:
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3511/stages/18470/amendments/10014573

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mattw replied to quiff | 4 weeks ago
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They will be doing a fairly comprehensive review of road safety.

Which is why we need to stay engaged.

This Govt seem rational, and also strategic, unlike the last shower of shits, so I expect them to address weeping sores such as the drink-drive limit, the Exceptional Hardship loopholes, and other obvious things.

If we get some of what we actually need then a death by dangerous cycling offence is a small bone to throw to the dogs to keep them quiet.

The Telegrunt, Spectator and so on will keep routinely publishing lies, however.

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chrisonabike replied to mattw | 4 weeks ago
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mattw wrote:

They will be doing a fairly comprehensive review of road safety.

When? Is this the comprehensive review of road offenses they're rushing to get to after only a decade?

...or can we hope for something better - and actual look at "road safety" more generally? That still seems very unlikely to happen in UK politics. At best it seems governments are capable of legislating on new things after the fact; changing legacy stuff is clearly very hard and time-consuming.

Much of the UK's "road safety" approach seems to be reactive and legalistic, not proactive and "health and safety" based. I'd really love to see moves towards bringing in a "safe system" / sustainable safety approach nationally (the mothballed "Road Safety Investigation Branch" seemed a tensing start).

Probably that would require a government with that as a core policy and a big mandate though - it's a mountain to climb (even though at smaller level things already happen).

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eburtthebike replied to Mr Anderson | 4 weeks ago
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Mr Anderson wrote:

I watched about 2/3rds of the debate, as I discovered it when channel hoping.

I do a lot of that, hoping I'll find a good channel, but no luck so far.

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eburtthebike replied to Mr Anderson | 4 weeks ago
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Mr Anderson wrote:

I do wish they would get on with passing the "Kim Briggs" law ASAP, so we can all move on to the more pressing issues.  

Everytime this hits the news, its another opportunity at cyclist bashing! 

It won't make any difference, the haters will just find something else to hate us for.

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