Near Miss of the Day 478: Cheddar Gorge punishment pass

That's excellent. He didn't have a lounge-singing brother named Richard did he?

The trouble is it is classed as an AONB so I suspect that there are lots of extra rules to jump through to widen roads. Plus to widen it you would have to widen the gorge in some areas or then it will be wide/ narrow/ wide / narrow going down which might be more dangerous.

I dunno where to start, another troll?  

visionset wrote:

I dunno where to start, another troll?  

The video looks to me like it was shot on a road before or after the gorge.
That's why I wrote "when possible". I don't expect them to blast the walls of the gorge.
I'm not familiar with the location. But I'd put in some long passing lanes for the ascents, as a minimum "effort" of road safety.

My main point is that Britain's infrastructure is impeccable, okay the Swiss is the best.  There are so many roads, probably the most dense in the world.  More roads or less cars, mmm tricky!  And yes they could be better maintained, but that will do nothing for congestion.  Cars have mysteriously got bigger. Well erm no, the twats that buy big cars have become more twattish - market forces.  The ultimate power lies with the consumer in this god forsaken political model.  

you're *really* not familiar with the location, are you

the only people on this road are generally tourists. they get to wait. you can't drive fast up it -narrow, the odd herd of goats and the like 

it's the the most scenic route in the area. it doesn't need passing places. generally on the way up cars can pass -looks like that day there was a bit of a queue. that's the "middle" stretch -after the narrow bit, still in the gorge. it will open up to the top of the mendips soon

if you do want to ask a question about the road: why is it open to cars at all? if you want to get a car over the mendips -the A38 to the west does that. want a direct route to the top -to the east of cheddar is "new road" -which isn't fun to cycle at all, but being straight, not a hard drive. 

the road is usually closed for a few weeks in february to clean loose rocks off the cliff. do that all year round and you can have a walking/cycling valley where tourists can still park at the bottom, but need to walk a bit to see the gorge 

failing that, let's add a 20 mph sign throughout, and limit the rest of the mendips to 40. it's up top where i've had my near misses -worst one by a motorbike which must have been doing 100+

Agreed - it would be far better if they made this into a dual carriageway and, if necessary, cut into the Gorge to do so. Ideally cyclists would then be banned from using the road along with pedestrians, on safety grounds. It will need suitable 24hr lighting and crash barriers on the bends, and will then be perfect...

Crazyhorse wrote:

Agreed - it would be far better if they made this into a dual carriageway and, if necessary, cut into the Gorge to do so.

Rather lacking in imagination if I may say so.  The obvious solution is to fill it in and run a motorway over the top.

Crazyhorse wrote:

Agreed - it would be far better if they made this into a dual carriageway and, if necessary, cut into the Gorge to do so. Ideally cyclists would then be banned from using the road along with pedestrians, on safety grounds. It will need suitable 24hr lighting and crash barriers on the bends, and will then be perfect...

but what about the goats?

ghg

wycombewheeler wrote:

Crazyhorse wrote:

Agreed - it would be far better if they made this into a dual carriageway and, if necessary, cut into the Gorge to do so. Ideally cyclists would then be banned from using the road along with pedestrians, on safety grounds. It will need suitable 24hr lighting and crash barriers on the bends, and will then be perfect...

but what about the goats?

One of the trolls had them for supper

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Unfortunately the video doesn't really catch what was described much. However the worst offender on the road for the video was the cyclist who overtook the cars. For one, he wasn't sure one of the cars wasn't going to overtake as a gap came up, and he appears to cause the  vehicle coming down to brake and toot. 

There is no evidence in the video that the overtaking cyclist did anything wrong or to suggest the overtake was a the reason for use of the horn... Given that the horn occurs before the overtake! Drivers should signal before changing direction to overtake... It's a bit of a giveaway if you're not sure whether they are about to overtake

On 7 seconds you can just see the orange shirt appear past the drivers side mirror as the cyclist is about a foot or two wider and about to overtake, he suddenly darts in as the vehicle going down obviously appeared around the corner. But how far in did he go as he is overtaking the car (with a blind bend coming up) within a split second of the passing vehicle going past. That is why I surmised that the car coming down tooted at someone on his side of the road and staying very close to the central lines on a narrow road. 

If the silver car had overtaken the cyclists on that bend even giving plenty of room, we would be classing it as a dangerous overtake so why not for the bike? In theory it was only dangerous for him but still dangerous in my eyes. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

On 7 seconds you can just see the orange shirt appear past the drivers side mirror as the cyclist is about a foot or two wider and about to overtake, he suddenly darts in

The video is not good enough to see that. I really don't believe you've seen what you think you've seen.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I surmised that the car coming down tooted at someone on his side of the road and staying very close to the central lines on a narrow road. 

Seems to be missing Doppler effect and descending amplitude. Seems much more likely the horn comes from the tailgating silver vehicle with full beam headlights on during a sunny day. The driver also encroaches into the oncoming lane, seems impatient so more likely to use the horn as frustrated by the cyclist being able to overtake safely. My point was, you don't really know who was using the horn or why so it doesn't add weight to anything.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

If the silver car had overtaken the cyclists on that bend even giving plenty of room, we would be classing it as a dangerous overtake so why not for the bike?

Whataboutery/conjecture, comparing apples to oranges... and irrelevant.

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse, blind or what but you have your opinion and if watching that video doesn't make you see any different, that is what you want to see then you won't change your mind with anything I will type here. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse, blind or what but you have your opinion and if watching that video doesn't make you see any different, that is what you want to see then you won't change your mind with anything I will type here. 

My opinion comes from watching the video repeatedly to establish facts and what most likely occurred. I don't want to see anything in particular, I was just pointing out that your claim of the cyclist being in the wrong isn't at all supported by the video evidence.
If what you type is unconvincing, it simply won't convince me.

FWIW in the 34 seconds I viewed, the Land Rover going the opposite way was tooting the cyclist in orange (chapeau! Sir, btw) "for" pulling out around silver - I don't know whether that was appropriate or not. I'm not sold on the Doppler piece as the distances aren't long enough - someone must know what sort of horn Landies normally have? A marp or a meep? 
I didn't think the silver car did anything untoward. 

But when the facts are not actually facts it does look like you are being deliberately obtuse for the sake off it. (Full beams, tailgating, no biker at 7 seconds), then I see you being deliberately obtuse. Look up daylight running lights, and the two second rule for example. As for the no sign of the cyclist at 7 seconds....

The facts according to the cyclist is the silver car was fine, the following focus decided to punishment pass him and the cyclists ahead of him. From the video it looks like the focus does come closer but not easy to tell how close due to the distortion from the video and only being the rear. I don't disbelieve him though.

My comments are I thought the orange cyclist put himself in a more dangerous position then he needed to. As a faster vehicle then the slower cars and still being within the speed limit, there was no law breaking involved from him overtaking though. Although my opinion is still that the Landie coming down was he one who used the horn.  I'm impressed how well he was climbing though. Quite rapid uphill.

I don't want this to descend into another debate on Highway Code technicalities, and I do agree (not that this justifies a close pass) that the cyclist overtaking was bound to enrage the drivers. But if one of those drivers was about to overtake, they should first check they are not being overtaken themselves, and signal.  

I think both you and Chris think the cars coming up used their horn. For me it was the car going down rounding a corner and seeing a bike in his lane performing an over take and riding on the central lines of a narrow road. 

And then overtaking on a semi blind bend as well. (not knowing the climb I don't know how tight that bend is but the road goes out of view reasonably fast on the video of a slow bike.

Yeah, does seem to be the landie warning the 'dutch' cyclist not to overtake.

hirsute wrote:

Yeah, does seem to be the landie warning the 'dutch' cyclist not to overtake.

I thought it was the Focus beeping. I would have expected to hear a change in tone (doppler effect) if it was the 4x4 coming down the hill.

Plus they were clearly in a radge, you can see in the shadow cast on the verge of the Focus, trying to close the gap to prevent the overtaking cyclist pulling in.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I think both you and Chris think the cars coming up used their horn. For me it was the car going down rounding a corner and seeing a bike in his lane performing an over take and riding on the central lines of a narrow road. 

And then overtaking on a semi blind bend as well. (not knowing the climb I don't know how tight that bend is but the road goes out of view reasonably fast on the video of a slow bike.

even with your assumptions, they could have been beeping at the silver vehicle driving on the central lines of a "narrow road". 

Semi-blind bend? It's either blind or it isn't... And even then more so for the land rover than the overtaking cyclist. Which is worse, cycling into a blind bend uphill or driving down it at far greater speed in a heavy vehicle not known for it's manoeuvrability?

As I said to your other reply, if that is your take, I'm not going to change it anyway and whatever I type will be construed totally differently.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

As I said to your other reply, if that is your take, I'm not going to change it anyway and whatever I type will be construed totally differently.

If you say so 🤷🏼‍♂️