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news
Surrey Police video of cyclists stopped for ignoring red light (@SurreyRS)Under-fire police force releases full video of cyclists fined for ignoring red light amid questions over original footage
Surrey Police has released the full footage of an incident involving a group ride of cyclists, who were stopped and issued fixed penalty notices at the weekend for ignoring a red light, amid questions over the video originally shared on social media that did not show the offence being committed.
Addressing the hundreds of replies on the original post, the Surrey RoadSafe account posted a second video showing the moments leading up to and, crucially, the actual offence being committed, the group of four cyclists filtering to the front of a queue of stationary traffic on Copsem Lane in Esher before crossing the stop line and making a right turn while the traffic lights were red.
"Following on from yesterday's post, there were a lot of questions raised as to whether the cyclist had travelled over the stop line when the lights were red. As you can see from the downloaded cleartone, the lights were red when they crossed the stop line and then continued," the account said alongside the video below.
Following on from yesterdays post, there were a lot of questions raised as to whether the cyclist had travelled over the stop line when the lights were red.
As you can see from the downloaded cleartone, the lights were red when they crossed the stop line and then continued. https://t.co/ChHvVmOMRU pic.twitter.com/v8UqkXSkkt
— Surrey RoadSafe (@SurreyRS) January 15, 2024
When contacted by road.cc, a Surrey Police spokesperson added: "Officers from the Vanguard Road Safety Team were in an unmarked police car on Copsem Lane travelling towards Esher Town on 13 January 2024. At this junction, the left lane is to go straight, right lane is designated right turn. There was queuing traffic in right lane, and the left lane clear. Both lanes were governed by a red traffic light which was clearly visible at the time.
"At 08.40 am, four cyclists continued in lane one with unmarked directly behind where the officers observed the cyclists contravene the red traffic light in lane on, failing to stop at the solid white stop line. They continued through, moving across in front of the waiting traffic in lane two. Traffic lights were still red when they crossed. The cyclists then turned right where the unmarked followed and stopped them.
"The cyclists were warned of their vulnerability and that they put themselves in danger of a collision and injury. All were issued with a £50 fixed penalty ticket for 'contravention of a red traffic light' and given suitable safety advice for the future."
The original footage of the incident shared on social media by Surrey RoadSafe only showed the moment the riders made the turn, having already crossed the stop line before the video started. This raised concerns from some, many of whom accepted that an offence had almost certainly occurred, but who questioned why a video [seen below] used for education purposes had been edited so to avoid actually showing the offence.
#VanguardRST stopped these 4 cyclists in Esher after they were observed contravening a red traffic light. FPN's issued to all.#vulnerableroadusers #fatal5 pic.twitter.com/np612MNx62
— Surrey RoadSafe (@SurreyRS) January 14, 2024
Rory McCarron, cycling lawyer at Leigh Day explained: "They probably did but the worrying issue here is that they didn't actually show the offence of crossing the stop line when red.
"Police normally request evidence of close passes etc. with back video leading up to the offence. If a motorist (or pedestrian/cyclist) presented this video in this form, with the start cut off, the police would reject it straight away."
In response to the full footage he later added:
Thank you for showing the whole video. Justified FPN, no excuse. A lesson learned to the cyclists (and maybe the poster of the original video). Whilst this isn’t fatal 5, your work generally is applauded.
— Rory McCarron (@CyclingLawLDN) January 15, 2024
Another cyclist replying to the post showing the extended footage said: "Thanks for clearing this up. Why initially only post the cropped video only showing the moment after the offence?"
A third rider added: "Thank you for posting the whole thing. The additional footage makes it clear that there was indeed an offence committed. Everyone needs to obey the rules, and the bigger the vehicle the more vital this is."
Bang to rights and deserve their FPNS.
This is all we were questioning it for, if you’re going to post a photo or video make sure it’s clear what’s happening otherwise it’s always going to create needless arguments. https://t.co/47DwIXcUBJ— Bikery (@Bikery1966) January 15, 2024
Dan is the road.cc news editor and has spent the past four years writing stories and features, as well as (hopefully) keeping you entertained on the live blog. Having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for the Non-League Paper, Dan joined road.cc in 2020. Come the weekend you'll find him labouring up a hill, probably with a mouth full of jelly babies, or making a bonk-induced trip to a south of England petrol station... in search of more jelly babies.
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59 comments
Not so long ago in London, a cyclist went through a red light - he hit another cyclist and killed him.
Citation please? I've never heard of this and no Google search I can devise brings up any result for it.
Plenty of results for hit and run or lorry driver though.
Found this for red light jumping cyclist kills pedestrian.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/cyclist-who-jumped-red-light-jailed-over-pede...
Yes, heard of that one, there is a very small number of similar tragic cases that always attract enormous publicity (far more than the far higher number killed by red light jumping motor vehicles) but never heard of a red light jumping cyclist killing another cyclist.
never heard of a red light jumping cyclist killing another cyclist
It's just another another one-post or retread troll deliberately or through dim-ness getting it wrong over the usual 'furious cycling death', isn't it?
" The BBCNews handling of the death of 2 people hit by a car while walking their dog is off the scale. 1) Radio 2 didn't even mention what killed them. No reference to car or driver in opening line. No reference to presence of driver or whether they remained at the scene. "
They broke the law and must pay the fine, They undertook and went straight through a stop signal.
One of those things is not illegal.
Blackbelt Barristers review of it highlighted the undertake was contrary to the highway code, which could mean it could be considered careless & inconsiderate cycling under the road traffic act.
I don't agree with BBB's view that the 'undertake' was contrary to the highway code. Cyclists can pass other vehicles on either the left or the right.
But as the lane they used for the undertake is clearly marked ahead only I think that changes matters, doesn't it? The undertake wouldn't have been contrary to the code if they had stayed in that lane and gone straight on, but fairly sure it's not permissible for any vehicle to use an ahead only lane to undertake vehicles waiting in the right turn lane if they are turning right themselves.
never seen a driver go right to the end of the slip lane before filtering in to stationary traffic in order to get ahead of 30 other stationary cars when joinging the motorway? Good to know this is illegal.
That's a completely different situation! As far as I know there is no law or guidance in the Highway Code as to the distance you can drive up a slip lane before joining the motorway, whereas it is not permitted to use an ahead only lane to undertake right turning traffic if you are turning right yourself.
Those arrow road markings are only advisory. No offence is committed if they had just used that lane to filter past traffic. If there was an ASL there with a filter lane on the left, you would be expected to cycle up the leftmost side to enter the ASL, even when turning right.
Heck, I do it all the time, particularly with right turn refuges, if traffic is totally stationary, I'll utilise the extra space to get safely past. I also do the same in bus lanes, where they briefly cease and turn into a 'left-arrow' lane near a junction, I'll continue straight on in that 'left-turn' lane.
Are you doubting road.cc's "Most Correct & Valuable" member??!
Ah yes, the beauty of cycling...not allowed to filter past traffic now apparently. Or maybe go on the outside and ride into oncoming traffic?
That's exactly what I said, if they were only using it to filter past traffic it's fine, and yes if they had been using it to gain an ASL that would be fine too, but they weren't and that's why they were ticketed.
They could have used that lane to filter to the front of the right turn queue, that would have been fine. The only offence was to go through the red light.
This is a common example of road layout designed by drivers, for drivers, with zero comprehension of other highway users needs.
There is no ASL here, so crossing the road on green with other impatient drivers is hazardous.
The cyclists went to the front and crossed the oncoming traffic road before their lights went green.
This is the safest move within a biased junction arrangement. I would do this.
The fine? It's a cyclists' safety tax. Many (not all) cyclists break 'the law' because it fails them.
It fails them on contributory negligence (helmets), it fails them on close passing, it fails them on road rage.
In infrastructure design, the highway is designed hostile to people outside a motor vehicle. The emphasis is on victim blaming, and this bias against people using bikes comes from the DfT to judges, through the CPS to plod on the beat. This reinforces driver arrogance and entitlement.
Do I 'break the law' like this? Yes, regularly, because I do know better. I also know that breaking faulty laws and staying alive is preferable to being dead but law abiding.
It sucks, but that is UK highway culture. The result of nearly a century of motor myopic governance.
Will they release any footage from the side view? I haven't gone past a traffic queue without seeing at least one driver on their phone this year.
So Surrey are doing roads policing now? That's a turn up for the books...
See all the drivers trying to claim victory on the subsequent footage against riders querying why the offence wasn't shown.
The surrey road safe account effectively admitted fault by publishing a correction to the original footage, yet bad drivers are claiming it as a victory over said cyclists...
Come on guys. Did people really think that the police were making this up to win some brownie points with drivers or some other ridiculous notion. If I was a cyclist and had gone through on green and then was waiting to turn and the light went red and the police tried to fine me I would have told them to bugger off as I would think these cyclists would do. If this was a car, cyclists wouldn't have been debating anything about the legitimacy of it.
Sometimes we are our worst enemies.
No.
But I do think the crap drivers who drive at me in road works etc when the lights don't have a long enough all red phase for cyclists to get through will use the video to claim I committed a crime and justify recklessly driving at me.
~2 years ago we changed the HW code to explicitly instruct drivers that they have to yield to pedestrians approaching zebra crossings because they couldn't be expected to extrapolate that they needed to be able to yield on the basis that pedestrians had priority as soon as they stepped onto the crossing, something they could do at any time.
So no, we can't expect the least capable/competent drivers to extrapolate from partial footage and police statements as to what actually happened and do need to show it clearly...
Your point stands, but:
They were only breaking the law in a very specific and limited way. I believe this is commonly accepted now.
I believe murder, theft, arson are punishable in all countries.
Cyclists crossing red lights though isn't, there are states in US and many countries in EU that allow it. And it is even more rare to punish red light crossing pedestrians who practically have the same weight and 2-3 times the speed of cyclists, whereas cars have 10-15 times more weight and 5 times greater speed compared to bikes.
It is 2024, we have a global warming crisis, and laws aren't written in the Tablets of Stone and unable to be changed.
End the horror of 30 mph pedestrians now!
Lol mistakes happen! But I guess Usain Bolt may actually be 2-3 times faster than me cycling on lazy commuting speeds.
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