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TECH NEWS
2022 Chris Froome disc brakes - 1Chris Froome STILL has disc brake problems
Four-time Tour de France winner Chris Froome has revealed that he still regularly experiences disc brake issues but he has a solution of sorts: he puts earphones in so he can’t hear them rubbing.
Froome has had well-documented issues with disc brakes in the past. Way back in 2016, before the widespread adoption of disc brakes in professional road racing, Froome said that having different braking systems in the peloton would be more dangerous.
“I’d say either everyone uses them, or no-one does,” he commented.
Then Froome spoke about disc brakes in a YouTube video early last year. He said, “I don't think the technology is quite where it needs to be.”
He said that he wasn't “100 per cent sold” on the technology and mentioned that he had concerns over rubbing, overheating and the potential for rotors to warp.
Froome tried a number of different parts with the aim of alleviating the problems. Rather than the Shimano equipment normally used by Israel Start-Up Nation, Froome’s bike was fitted with Magura MT8 SL FM disc brakes during the 2021 Tour de France. The team also used SwissStop pads and rotors.
Froome returns to the subject of disc brakes in his latest YouTube video.
“I don’t know if you can hear that,” he says.
We can hear that – ‘that’ being the sound of his disc brakes rubbing.
“My entertainment with disc brakes continues. I think they're sort of work in progress. I think the technology is improving but the margins are so slim. You do a big descent and the alignment moves completely so I need to stop and readjust everything again.
“We’re riding Shimano at the moment. I hear the new 12-speed Shimano has sorted out some of these issues but… with the 11-speed [we’re] still getting a lot of rubbing, getting one piston firing more than the other one, which always puts things out of alignment.
Read our review of the Shimano Dura-Ace R9200 groupset
“No matter how many mechanics I’ve spoken to or taken the bike to, you just can't get 100% on top of that. [You] always… start getting a few issues as soon as you start doing some some really big descents.
“But c’est la vie, for the time being. Just put the earphones in and pretend I can't hear it.”
Okay, it’s not tackling the issue at source but this is one way of dealing with it.
Froome is still using 11-speed Shimano Dura-Ace R9100 components because, although launched last year, there have been supply issues with Shimano Dura-Ace R9200 mostly due to fallout from the Covid-19 pandemic.
Here’s why the bike shortage isn’t going away any time soon
Shimano says that its R9270 Dura-Ace hydraulic disc brake calliper has a 10% wider pad clearance than previously to reduce the chance of rotor rub.
Shimano also says that there’s less heat deformation with its RT-MT900 rotors, meaning a reduced chance of interference.
In our review of the Shimano Dura-Ace R9200 groupset, Liam said, “Yes, the pad clearance has been increased by 10 per cent but that is 10 per cent of a tiny gap. It isn't enough to clear a rotor warped by heat, and while the MT900 rotors are better than the old Dura-Ace design, I still prefer SwissStop or Campagnolo rotors with their solid design. They might be a touch heavier, but they don't seem to warp quite as easily.
“This rotor warping results in that annoying ting-ting-ting sound when you come off the brakes after scrubbing off a lot of speed. You can also get a tiny bit of noise if you lean the bike over excessively when sprinting or out of the saddle on a climb. For me, it's an issue that can be solved by using a better rotor, though that will be a change you make based on personal preference.”
It’ll be interesting to hear Chris Froome’s reaction when he gets to use Shimano Dura-Ace R9200
Mat has been in cycling media since 1996, on titles including BikeRadar, Total Bike, Total Mountain Bike, What Mountain Bike and Mountain Biking UK, and he has been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. Mat has been road.cc technical editor for over a decade, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. We send him off around the world to get all the news from launches and shows too. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer. Now over 50, he's riding road and gravel bikes most days for fun and fitness rather than training for competitions.
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51 comments
I'm running sram apex hydros. Sram's cheapest hydro brakes. Never had a problem with rub. The rotors are the full steel type, not the floating type with an aluminium centre piece. I wonder if this is the issue?
I ride a 2017 Cannondale SuperSix Evo HM Disc with previous gen Dura-Ace disc brakes. I built the bike myself and service it ever since myself being a hobby bike mechanic. I also only do steep climbs and descends as I live in a mountainous area. Only use Shimano parts when replacing rotors and pads. My brakes work like a charm. The only reason for them to rub would be an extreme accumulation of brake pad dust/residue on the pistons, after months of use and not cleaning the bike, which would prevent them from retracting symetrically and to the extent they should. In the rare case this happens, I remove the front wheel, clean the calipers with water and washing up liquid, push them in and out, one at a time, a couple of times and I'm good to go. I just don't get why Froomey is having such a hard time with his professionaly serviced bike.
Love Froome but he seriously needs to get his head around training and drop the disc brake debate.
He needs a brake break?
I think this debate about "best brakes" is pointless - it just rolls on and on and never stops.
Time it hit the skids?
Which is odd, because it seems to generate quite a bit of friction.
Not sure if I'm allowed to link to other bike sites, but here goes...
The article does seem to offer an explanation for how people's opinions of disc brakes can be so much at odds with each others':
Nah, that's just another manufacturers cop out, like 'contaminated pads'.
I mean, both issues *could* cause squealing or noise, but in 20 years of using discs on my mountain bikes, I can safely say no manufacturer has come up with a solution to lazy or sticky pistons, or 'self adjusting' pistons which seem to recentre themselves after one hot descent etc. etc. (Oh, except twin piston mechanical brakes like TRP Spyres, but of course the accepted wisdom is that they are the devil's work, because the industry can't force us to buy expensive new shifters at the same time).
I had mounts faced on my Trek Superfly and my Kinesis CX frame, didn't make a jot of difference to brake squeal in the wet.
The Superfly brakes seem to have finally stopped squealing quite so badly in the wet but only after absolutely cooking them in the Cairngorms, which makes me think bedding in instructions should actually read 'find the UK's longest, rockiest descent and panic brake all the way down it' 😆
Must be hell being a Pro and being forced to run disc brakes just to sell more overpriced new bikes. Must be even worse if like Mr Froome you can't abide squeaks and noises from your brakes! I share his pain but I have the luxury of just not having to run disc brakes...
I'd love to know what the other riders really think, watching the Tour of Britain last year even the commentators were laughing at the noise of the peloton trying to slow down in the wet, and presumably they all DO have pro mechanics at their disposal
Still harping on about discs vs rims? BORE OFF MATE
If they rub, you haven't set them up correctly. Discs are superior, get over it.
And the number of grand tours on your palmares is...the number of expert World Tour team mechanics you have setting up your brakes is...somehow I think Mr Froome might possibly know a bit about setting up brakes correctly, maybe even more than you.
At the moment I have two disc-braked bikes and two rim-braked bikes while Mrs H has two disc-braked bikes, between us we cover everything from Ultegra to Sora. My experience is that disc brakes are superior in the majority of environments but that they do unquestionably need more fettling, e.g. my Ultegra rim brakes have needed nothing more than a wipe down throughout the last winter and are performing as well now as they were in September while my 105 discs have needed adjusting to correct rotor rub about once a fortnight (with the caveat that the 105 is on the commuter so does more stops per mile than the Ultegra on the road bike).
There's no guarantee of that - thats why teams employ mechanics.
I rather suspect that Frome has a riding style thats harder on the brakes than others. A bit like some F1 drivers are harder on tyres than others.
True but given that most pros adjust their own bikes when training in the off season etc I'd reckon he's probably at some point picked up the odd tip from his mechanics, especially if he's not happy with the brakes.
Therein lies the problem, it's all well saying he has WT mechanics setting up his brakes, but that doesn't negate the issue that he's away training without a mechanic and talking about stopping to adjust his own brakes. I'm sure when he flies he uses the correct blocks in his brakes that stop anything moving....(many riders don't even put anything in as I'm all too familiar with)
When I get to races and set up riders bikes as they fly in, almost all brakes will need to be adjusted because riders have been f**kin about with them. Normally it's just a case of aligning the calliper again.
Top tip: to prevent pistons sticking, just give a liberal spray of WD40 over your brakes from time to time
😳
Some people claim that it ruins the pads, but they've never stopped me
😁
I followed this advice but found things have been going downhill fast since.
No need for a bar bell when you have disc brakes. Everyone can hear you whenever your discs pick up those pollen grains.
Stay away from gravel paths. And sand! They'll scream at all around.
Awful.
Rimming is winning.
Just don't bother with mavics.
No need for a bar bell when you have disc brakes. Everyone can hear you whenever your discs pick up those pollen grains.
Stay away from gravel paths. And sand!
Sorry, I forgot the other arch-bollocks exponent. However, the dispute is easily solved: we all carry on as we are doing but cease making up false statements that the other side knows are wrong. I used rim brakes for several decades until something much better came along that doesn't wear out the rims.
Calm down dear. We're all on the same side.
In the great debate of rim v disc, I do pity the fool who doesn't have a pro cycling team behind them to maintain those pesky disc brakes.
What great debate? I haven't touched my disc brakes since 2014 aside from replacing pads and they are as good as the day I got them. Enjoy scraping your shiny rims to pieces.
I have Campag H11 on two bikes. The hydraulic brakes required (quite a lot) more tools and effort to set up than cable brakes, but they're a lot nicer to use, and I don't get any brake rub* - and I weigh 82kg, so am a prime candidate for cooking rotors.
Maybe Sir Froome should switch to Campag?
* after having the fork mount faced. On a Bianchi frame that cost enough that it shouldn't have needed it.
I've got H11 on a winter bike, just changed the front pads after less than 2000km since last replacement which seems low for a 70kg rider in the south east. The pistons won't fully push back in so now the wheel drags as I really can't be bothered bleeding again. Seems to be a common issue, online advice ranges from sanding the pads down a bit or waiting until the disc rubs the pad down enough. Since changing the rear pads 200km ago it's still dragging so I guess I'll be waiting for a while. Discs are so rubbish I mainly choose to take out something with carbon rim brakes unless it's really filthy
Sounds like the new pads are slightly thicker than the old pads; the system therefore has too much fluid in it. Open the bleed nipple on the caliper, push the pistons back in (they should go further), then bleed the brakes.
2,000km is at the bottom end of the normal range for pad life, so doesn't seem excessively bad for a winter bike.
I wouldn't go back to rim brakes, personally. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them - I just prefer the feel of disc brakes, particularly in the wet.
Maintenance of brakes varies a lot by brand.
I found SRAM some of the most fiddly to get set up, full if bright ideas that don't work properly (par for the course on the brand IMHO) Shimano have made it easier and easier, and need very little attention (aside from their design flaw on the retaining bolt on road bikes). Hope are maintainable but less reliable.
I've done about 16,000 on my Defy, some of it through winter, and still not needed to bleed the brakes - mineral oil - changed the front pads twice a year, rear pads once a year and one new rotor at the front. Even pad wear.
Get squealing on dirty wet roads but that cleans up with use.
On the other hand, I have an old MTB with SRAM Avid, and it needs careful filling to get the travel right, once you've managed to get rid of the airlocks which is a game in itself, the combined reservoir and piston system just doesn't work.
He talks about having to stop and readjust them. I think I know the source of the problem. A rider playing about with his brakes all the time....
I've just returned from 3 weeks racing in Greece with a team on full hydro Di2 setups and only once had to realign callipers because of rotor rub, that was only due to changing wheels mid-race because of a puncture. There were multiple long descents and heavy braking to be had, but no rotor warping, over a mixture of RT800/900 and MT800/900. I haven't noticed any difference in the newer rotor or callipers from Shimano, having compared my team running the 11spd and another team running the 12spd. The gap is totally unnoticeable to the human eye.
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