Redshift smashes funding target for LED smart pedals

Prosper0 wrote:

Umm. Pretty sure these could be illegal. Why not make the LEDs yellow? 

Because making them yellow would make them illegal. Any lights on your bike must be red to the rear, white to the front. So they are perfectly legal as they are, red. Whether or not they fulfill the legal lighting requirements is another matter.

However they won't satisfy the legal requirement to have pedal reflectors. The law requires pedal reflectors, complying with BS 61022, regardless of other decorations.

Sriracha wrote:

Because making them yellow would make them illegal.

Weirdly, the old regs. were updated in 2005 to allow for amber lamps in a pedal - but I don't think they rescinded the requirement for reflectors.

So red, white or amber, all legal to emit - just still need that amber reflector.

(edit - only amber lamps are permitted to be moving, so these pedals are actually outright illegal I think)

Oh, good spot. I just relied on
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pedal-cycles-lighting/pedal-c...
which does not bother to mention that detail.

I see that those side-pointing orange lights are also legal - so long as they are strapped to your wheel or tyre!

Quote:

(ob)white light or amber light from a lamp which is designed to emit light primarily to one or both sides of the vehicle, and is attached to or incorporated in any wheel or tyre of—

(i)a pedal cycle or;

(ii)a trailer drawn by, or a sidecar attached to, a pedal cycle;”.

https://road.cc/content/review/216585-brightside-bright-amber-and-sideways

Sriracha wrote:

I see that those side-pointing orange lights are also legal - so long as they are strapped to your wheel or tyre!

lol - why are the bicycle lighting regulations so flipping difficult!

That's two products currently on sale that are actually illegal to use on the road as designed!

Pretty much every bicycle light out there does not meet regs, and are therefore "against the law" as they do not meet relevent British Standards.

But then again any light that gets you noticed, or helps you see where you are going, is doing it's job.

Almost everyone purchasing, perfectly legally, an escooter, will do so to be used illegally.

If pedal reflectors are meant to be amber and they help to make you visible then I cannot see why amber lights on pedals that could be even more visible would be a bad thing.  I couldn't see the police pulling you over for it, and for a driver to claim that upon seeing the amber lights on the pedals caused them to drive into you would seem incredibly foolish.

Not quite. Not meeting regs is not the same as being illegal to use. The law has minimum lighting requirements which you must satisfy. But it does not outlaw the fitting of other, optional, lights, which as you say, are the ones that get you noticed. Although there are some overarching requirements, such as you can't have any red lights pointing forwards, etc.

But to be sure, it's not black and white!

I do very much accept your point, but who fits the shockingly hard to find BS front and rear lights as well as ones that do a far better job. I speak as someone who has detailed their lighting history, with pics, and the fully legal lights were pants.

I am waiting for exposure to start selling their stvzo lights, and I did ask, apparently certification has been difficult to obtain, not that the lights do not meet the standards.  But, of course, leaving the EU, will german standards be enough for the UK?

Lupine make some good ones, but have separate light and battery, and the connecting wire is a weak point.

Quality shin destroying MTB pedals with the ability to fit reflectors are also difficult to come by, wellgo does still make some very good ones.

These lights on these pedals do look effective, the pedals, maybe not.

I have been burned before by "ingenious" lights, mainly helmet and valve, and I doubt if these could last a British winter doing a full commute without great frustration.

ktache wrote:

These lights on these pedals do look effective, the pedals, maybe not.

I have been burned before by "ingenious" lights, mainly helmet and valve, and I doubt if these could last a British winter doing a full commute without great frustration.

Well, two things.
To get the full "57% more visible"* benefit you need to have the lights on constant, otherwise you don't get that eye-catching reciprocating motion effect. Hence the lights were almost exclusively shown in constant mode in the video, and for the signature "light trail" picture. But then they only last 3 hours. Want longer autonomy and you need to drop down to a flashing mode, squandering the touted benefit.

IP64 only protects them against "splashing" water from all sides. Pedals will be directly hosed by the briney spray from the front wheel unless you have tarmac skimming front flaps. I'd share your concern over their durability through the rainy seasons.

*reading the abstract of the source of this 57% claim, it seems that the baseline comparator is a fixed steady seat post light. But then the abstract also says that a flashing fixed seatpost light is likewise more visible. Maybe even 57% more visible? I'm not paying to download the complete article, but I smell a marketing fudge here.

Just chalk this up as another bicycle related Kickstarter that is garbage. Like every other bicycle related Kickstarter that has preceded it.

ktache wrote:

Quality shin destroying MTB pedals with the ability to fit reflectors are also difficult to come by, wellgo does still make some very good ones.

How about these? There's two sets of shin destroyers in the box, short and long. But yes, only one side destroys your shins.
https://road.cc/content/review/shimano-xt-pd-t8000-trekking-pedals-284503

Nice, rare to find any spd with reflectors.

When my wellgo mg1s die, and most pedals do even with regular stripdowns, I like the look of the wellgo b129s, big platform with those so important reflector accepting holes.

I'm on a tablet at the moment, cutting and pasting is not too easy, let alone posting pics.

Those Shimano pedals are the ultimate versatile pedal. They even look good on a road bike and are fully serviceable

Sriracha wrote:

But to be sure, it's not black and white!

Well, no - I'm not sure a black light would be any use to anyone.

Unless you're using your bike for crime detection.

ktache wrote:

Pretty much every bicycle light out there does not meet regs, and are therefore "against the law" as they do not meet relevent British Standards.

But then again any light that gets you noticed, or helps you see where you are going, is doing it's job.

Almost everyone purchasing, perfectly legally, an escooter, will do so to be used illegally.

It's not illegal to use a light that doesn't conform to the relevant BS, as long as it's in addition to a BS lamp (or meets the 2005 updated regs for brightness and flash modes).

But I didn't fully understand the caveats to that - regarding the colour and movement...

• steady amber light on the pedal - ok
• steady amber or white light emitting sideways from the wheel - ok
• rear flashing red light which flashes on/off with constant time interval 60 to 240 times a minute - ok

So, my 'pulsing' exposure TraceR, not only lacks a BS mark, - but is actually outright illegal too. So is the 'heartbeat' lezyne flasher and some of the Cycliq Fly 6/12 modes of my other lights.

It's a shambles - I'm definiately in the law breaking but visible camp though!

What does all of that say about the fashionable zippy direction indicators on upmarket cars, the ones where the light processes sideways? Are they classed as moving lights? They have the same visual effect. Surely they are all illegal (along with the darkened or missing number plates that seems part of the same vibe).

I suspect those 'directional' indicators are not compliant - but might check!

I noticed that there used to be a design requirement that rear lights were not to be placed on a moveable boot lid, which seems really sensible, but that got removed. So lots of cars now have rear/hazard lights that are useless if you break down and need to get into the boot for your spare tyre and tools etc.!

It is probably not possible to walk into Halfords and buy a set of lights that meet british standards.
Some may well exceed BS Standards, but don't have the paperwork.
You can almost hear Nick Freeman, "If only the deceased was using legally approved lights..."

Cycloid wrote:

It is probably not possible to walk into Halfords and buy a set of lights that meet british standards.

Just had a look at Halfords and cannot see any lights that have BS or STVZO accreditation.

But Decathlon has a whole range of them! (well, STVZO or French certified, none of that BS nonsense). It's a good idea to run a set of back-up lights when commuting through the winter, so choosing compliant ones makes sense.

This is my pick of the bunch, only £13 front and rear with a useful 75 lumen shaped beam on the front that'll be ok for navigating dark country lanes.

But there's also:​
£60 B+M rechargeable
£24 dinky 'be seen' rechargeable
£10 'be seen'  battery
£6 'be seen' rechargeable rear - only has a flash mode, so is actually compliant with British road law.

HoarseMann wrote:

But Decathlon has a whole range of them! (well, STVZO or French certified, none of that BS nonsense).

According to UK law, the lights need to be certified to the relevant BS or “a corresponding standard of another EC country”. So French or German standards will do just as well, take your pick. Whether that has changed now I do not know.

Sriracha wrote:

So French or German standards will do just as well, take your pick. Whether that has changed now I do not know.

It's still ok (buried in the middle of this link, you'll find the text below)...
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/note

Thank you very much for finding this and the other information.

ktache wrote:

Thank you very much for finding this and the other information.

Cheers ktache. It keeps me out of trouble and I weirdly enjoy the odd trawl through legislation!

I am that person that fits compliant lights to their bike, to compliment the proper lights that actually work (but are not approved). I also made sure I had a rear red reflector marked with an approved standard and the amber pedal reflectors too when I commuted in the dark.

Not that it would have done much good now I learn the pulsing and heartbeat flash patterns are actually illegal! But I guess it's harder for a driver to argue that the flash pattern was a problem to see, than point to a lack of approved lights.

I like the little round cat-eye reflectors, even on the front which is not strictly required and a bit pointless given my Hope R4.  I would fit the Exposure 3000 lumen stvzo compliant thing, power when you need it, zooming downhill, off road in the woods, but sensible with great beam pattern and no chance of dazzling oncoming road users, but they will not release it until certification.

I very much like the reflective spoke straws, even have them on my good Ti MTB (no other reflectors, shhh) as why not, don't take up any very valuable seat post space, weigh next to nothing and go with the effective lights.

Prosper0 wrote:

Umm. Pretty sure these could be illegal. Why not make the LEDs yellow? 

pedal reflectors are generally yellow, as a fixed reflector could end up pointing either forward or backward depending on how the foot meets the pedal. Since this pedal can detect which way up it is and adjust the lights accordingly, there should be no need to be yellow.

HOWEVER, what if the pedal fails to detect orientation, or fails to adjust light colour as required. Especially as pedals live in the splash zone. It's not unforseeable that that something may develop a fault.

SimoninSpalding wrote:

Now, if they had come up with some proper pedals (Look Keo, Shimano SPD SL compatible) I might be interested, although technically they still wouldn't be legal for use in the UK after dark, as the legislation requires orange reflectors.

They don't need to make a pedal, they could make a light housing with two bolt holes for a cleat, this could then be clipped in to the bottom of an SPD pedal (but not spd sl)