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Is merino wool really the ultimate sustainable choice for cycling kit?

Anything made of merino is better for the environment, right? Find out the good, the bad, and the painful procedure called mulesing that you need to be aware of…

Merino wool is often marketed as the irrefutable sustainable choice fabric for cycling kit, with brands endlessly listing the natural performance benefits for outdoor exercise. Is it really as environmentally friendly as we're led to believe though? 

Yes, there are an impressive amount of those natural performance benefits and it results in cycling gear you’re bound to enjoy wearing, but even merino isn't without its issues. While we'll acknowledge the wonderful qualities of this renewable resource, in this feature we'll also be looking at where merino is sourced, the ethical problems and the certifications you should be looking out for, why it’s often blended and the consequences, and how you should be looking after your merino gear to make the most of its sustainable value... 

How is merino cycling kit sustainable? 

In short, if a product is durable and has performance benefits, you're more likely to only buy once and use it lots. It’s important for us as consumers to put more effort into finding suitable products that we like and need, after assessing if we can use what we currently own. 

Buy something that suits your needs, and do it once. It’s no good purchasing a product that is slightly better for the environment if you then fail to use it, and need to buy the more suitable item second time round.

Velocio Women’s Alpha Merino Air Jacket

It’s much more environmentally friendly to make a limited number of considered purchases. If it’s not a hasty purchasing decision and you’ve spent longer saving up for the premium performance item, then you’re also more likely to appreciate the garment and take good care of it. 

Velocio is one cycling apparel brand that makes good use of merino in specific products, and it explains that its overarching aim is to create apparel that is both high performance and durable: “Our primary goal is to create apparel that improves experience and comfort and lasts a really long time. 

“We recognise that the highest impact any apparel has is manufacturing, so these two goals mean that we can effectively reduce the impact of manufacturing by reducing the number of garments produced if we can make a product that people love to wear, and they can wear that product longer.”

2021 Madison Roam mens merino short sleeve jersey - shoulders.jpg

There’s no doubt that merino wool garments boast a lot of performance benefits and so are likely to keep you satisfied. As detailed on Woolmark, here’s what it can offer:

Warmth: Merino wool contains crimps (natural waviness) which create pockets that trap air as you move. As that air can’t circulate it retains heat from your body to keep you warm. 

This heat retention method which utilises the merino’s fine fibres provides a high warmth to weight ratio - you can stay warm with minimal bulk, and therefore it performs a useful role in a layering system for dealing with the cold or elements.

Merino wool also maintains its insulating properties when damp, meaning it has versatile use. 

Soft and comfy: As merino wool fibres are fine and more flexible than standard wool fibres, they provide a gentler next-to-skin experience and, with this, can reduce itchiness issues. 

Breathability: Wool is naturally highly breathable as it can absorb large quantities of moisture into its own fibres, holding it away from your skin before then moving it away to evaporate into the air. 

2021 dhb Aeron Merino Mesh Sleeveless Baselayer.jpg

Quick-drying: The fine fibres produce lighter fabrics that dry quicker. The fast-drying aspect is convenient for trips away and also is great for cutting down on the environmental impacts by reducing the need for high energy use for drying.

Odour resistant: Merino wool garments can be worn for longer between washing intervals because of the natural odour resistant properties of wool. This makes it a practical option for bikepacking trips as you can wear the same item of clothing without any social judging. 

2021 FR3ND Merino Wool Shirt.jpg

“It retains its benefits and often reduces other things needed on synthetics, like anti-bacterial treatments or coatings due to its natural and inherent properties,” Velocio adds.

Renewable and biodegradable

A sheep produces a new fleece each year, meaning that wool is a renewable fibre.

Merino wool is a natural fibre, and therefore 100% biodegradable. The ideal conditions are warm, damp soil combined with access to oxygen. 

Researchers in New Zealand found in a study that merino fabrics lost around 36% of their mass after only two months burial in soil and up to an impressive 99% after nine months, whereas a polyester knitted fabric did not degrade at all during the course of the nine-month burial period. 

Merino wool has also been found to readily biodegrade in a marine environment, whereas synthetic fibres do not. 

The Woolmark Company is a not-for-profit organisation that works alongside Australia’s 60,000 woolgrowers to research, develop and certify Australian wool. It conducted a study into the biodegradability of untreated and machine washable merino wool in a marine environment compared to nylon, polyester and polypropylene. 

To simulate a partial garment lifetime, all fabrics were washed repeatedly before testing. The rate of biodegradation was then compared to that of kraft paper pulp, a substance known to biodegrade readily. 

Researchers found untreated wool biodegraded at 20.3% the rate of the pulp and the machine-washable wool biodegraded more than three times as quickly, at a rate of 67.3%. Nylon biodegraded at the slowest rate of just 0.8%, followed by polypropylene (1.8%) and polyester (6.3%).

Merino wool is therefore a good environmental choice during the use phase, as it won’t be polluting the ocean when being washed. Once it’s reached the end of its usable life, it can biodegrade fully when buried in soil.  

Less energy intensive use phase

Two of the reasons for choosing merino wool are for its naturally odour-resistant and anti-bacterial qualities. Thanks to these qualities the social and hygienic reasons for washing frequently are significantly reduced; however, this benefit for the environment is only realised if you follow through and practice good washing and drying habits. 

2021 Iris Merino Socks 3.jpg

“Wool garments have particular attributes that favour reduced environmental impacts in the garment use phase, associated with odour resistance leading to less frequent need for washing, low washing temperature requirements and suitability for air drying practices,” it’s noted in Wiedemann, Stephen G. et al.’s study (2021).

Merino wool may have potential for a long life and low environmental impact in use, but the study concluded that there are “substantial differences between the best, current and worst case scenarios”. The use phase is well understood to be a hotspot for fossil energy demand and water consumption, but as the study acknowledges, with merino wool “opportunities exist for consumers to rapidly reduce these [environmental] impacts”.

Airing wool garments can help keep the clothing free of odours for longer, according to Laitala, K. et al.'s study (2017). By doing this you can maximise the number of times a wool garment is worn before it is washed.

As merino wool is quick-drying thanks to its fine fibres, it’s important to realise that there’s less need to attempt to quicken the drying process. Line drying or drying in an unheated room is the least energy intensive and so you should be using one of these methods where possible.

However, Laitala, K et al.'s study (2012) acknowledges that in practice it can be difficult to follow the ideal washing scenario because if you own few wool garments, it can take longer to accumulate a wool-specific laundry load, which may result in efficient washing loads.

With this in mind, Laitala, K. and Klepp, I.G.'s study (2016) recommends airing wool garments as it gives you more time to accumulate a fuller wool load. If this is not enough, making up the rest of a wool wash with garments made of other fibres is okay, as a wool wash cycle tends to be more gentle than other wash settings, and therefore won’t be detrimental to the other fibres.

2021 Chapeau Merino Base layer Deep Ocean - chest.jpg

Consumer washing and drying habits are a key part of making best use of the environmental benefits of merino wool, and while brands can do a lot more to instil these environmentally friendly practices by making it clearer on the product packaging, it’s down to you to wash less frequently and dry in an energy-saving way.

Can merino cycling kit be unsustainable? Mulesing, sourcing and more

2021 Chapeau Mens Long Sleeved Etape Merino Jersey.jpg

Mulesing is method that's carried out to reduce the risk of losing sheep to a parasite called flystrike, but it is a painful procedure where skin is removed from around the backside of the sheep. This practice is the most important to be aware of, and to ensure you avoid if you're conscious about the welfare of the animal your garment came from. 

Regular washing and shearing are much kinder methods of protecting the sheep, albeit much more expensive. Sheep that have been treated with the kinder methods produce non-mulesing merino wool. 

“Where these [natural fibre] materials become problematic is more commonly associated with ethics,” Velocio acknowledges. “The treatment of these animals, how it’s processed, milled and so on.” The brand adds that down is another example of an amazing natural material in terms of performance, that has a sordid past. 

“With anything - whether it’s sourcing raw materials, labour in manufacturing or end of garment life, it’s important that we consider how things are made and ensure that everyone and everything that’s involved through that process is part of that product. 

“We are always working to ensure that our product meets the highest standards at every step - environmentally and ethically - and we work with all of our partners to continue to challenge this process and see where we can improve.”

Sheep mulesing has been illegal in New Zealand since 2018, but in Australia the practice is still legal.

Standards and certifications aim to address the environmental and social challenges related to wool production, and so it’s important to ensure the brands you are buying from are sourcing from certified farms and mills. 

2020 dhb Merino Long Sleeved Base Layer - collar.jpg

RWS stands for the Responsible Wool Standard, and alongside guaranteeing the absence of mulesing, this standard aims to ensure animal welfare through the application of Five Freedom points:

  1. Freedom from hunger or thirst
  2. Freedom from discomfort 
  3. Freedom from pain, injury or disease
  4. Freedom to express normal behaviour
  5. Freedom from fear and distress

The Responsible Wool Standard’s social requirements are based on the principles of the International Labour Organisation’s Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work, for guarantees that good working conditions are upheld.

Rapha, for example, has committed to only sourcing wool that is certified to the Responsible Wool Standard (RWS) by 2025. “Our commitment to using the finest, most responsibly sourced wool ensures the welfare of sheep – no mulesing – and land management practices that protect soil health, biodiversity and native species,” Rapha states on its website

Where is merino wool sourced from?

For the cycling kit to be sustainable, 'virgin' (first time use) wool needs to be sourced from farms that are Responsible Wool Standard certified, which promote standards for animal welfare and land management. But where are these farms?

Merino wool is a natural fibre grown by merino sheep which were originally bred in Spain in the 12th century, and were later introduced to Australia in the 1700s.

“Nowadays 81% of merino wool is produced in Australia, which is the leading producer followed by New Zealand, South Africa, Uruguay, Argentina, etc,” Rapha highlights.

“There is a herd of Bowmont Merino sheep in the UK, though it tends to be relatively low volume, producing only 700kg of fibre each year - except for this kind of small scale solution, there are currently no merino wool producers in the UK or Europe.”

Rapha currently sources the majority of its wool from Australia, with a small portion from New Zealand, and does so due to its confidence in the Australian Wool Strategy 2030.

2021 Rapha Classic Jersey - arm logo.jpg

“Through technological innovation, environmental stewardship and building a young and prosperous community of farmers, the strategy is transforming Australian farming,” Rapha highlights.

“Progressive agritechnologies including virtual fencing and remote sensing are employed to help the young, skilled workforce, and farmers are also equipped with the apparatus needed to detect health issues like flystrike early on, so that sheep can be separated and treated without the need for mulesing.”

Relationships form part of Rapha’s sourcing practice. “Since the inception of our sportwool jerseys, which make up the majority of our merino supply chain, we have worked with the same mill who sources from Australia and New Zealand,” Rapha says.

“Wherever possible, we look to build upon our existing relationships with our long-standing partners, who are experts in their field.”

Although wool is environmentally friendly as a natural, renewable and biodegradable resource, it is sourced from far, far away from UK consumers, which does result in some unwanted environmental impacts. How it’s transported over can make quite a considerable difference in how much damage is cause, though. 

Blending for increased durability and lengthened use phase

Merino wool is often blended with other fibres to increase the durability and elasticity of the clothing for improved comfort, fit and lifespan. In these cases, the performance benefits and increased use period are chosen over biodegradability and recyclability.

Alpkit uses the ‘corespun’ manufacturing method for its merino wool clothing to improve the durability and elasticity without losing any of the benefits. 

“It's made by wrapping a central thread of nylon and elastane with Merino wool fibres to create a single yarn,” Alpkit explains. “Clothing made with corespun Merino lasts longer, stretches more and recovers its shape better.”

Velocio, for another example, has blended merino wool with nylon and elastane in its Concept Merino jersey.

It’s also the same case for Rapha’s Classic Jersey II. “For performance, our RPM fabric is 64% recycled polyester, 36% merino wool,” says Rapha. 

But… “unfortunately, once you blend a natural fibre with a synthetic fibre it limits both biodegradability and recyclability,” Rapha continues.

“It’s one of the biggest challenges for the apparel industry, as so many fabrics are blends. 

“For the cycling industry especially, we’re all going to struggle with recycling clothing with high amounts of elastane, such as bibshorts.

“This is something we’re exploring and looking to overcome, with our target of 50% of production volume being recyclable or compostable by 2027.”

Velocio explains its approach: “We look to how we can reduce the use of “new” materials wherever possible. 

“That’s why we look to recycled polyester and nylon, bio-based synthetics and natural fibers, such as non-mulesing merino wool. 

“It’s important to consider here the first point about performance, comfort and durability. 

“The fact is, merino is superior for certain applications over synthetics, while in other situations, synthetics prevail. 

“This goes for durability as well. So when we select a non-mulesing merino, we’re doing so because it performs exceptionally and for its sustainable qualities.”

There are certainly many considerations that need to be balanced. A lot of cycling brands utilise merino for its natural performance benefits, and accept that increasing the durability is a necessary step for reducing the environmental impact in one way by lengthening the use phase.

The journey of the merino product 

So, we’ve gathered that merino is often blended to bolster its performance benefits, and we’ve also established that merino wool is often distantly sourced in Australia. This is because there simply aren’t closer options for cutting shipping emissions, which would of course be preferable for a reduced environmental impact. 

With the added blending process, the distant farm from which the merino wool is sourced is only one step in its journey to the final product 

2021 Rapha Classic Jersey.jpg

We were very impressed by the comfort and breathability of Rapha’s Classic Jersey II, in both the men’s and women’s cuts, and so it certainly ticks the boxes of being a high quality product that’ll cover your needs. With this in mind, here are the steps taken from the raw material to final product, to understand how environmentally friendly the whole process is…

> You can read the full review of the men’s version here and the women’s fit here

Rapha made the jersey with its Rapha Performance Merino 150 fabric (RPM150) which consists of 36% merino wool mixed with 64% recycled polyester. The polyester is often added to merino to help with stretch and strength of the fabric.

”The raw wool is sourced from an Australian farm, then sent to Italy to be spun into yarn, where it leaves with Responsible Wool Standard certification,” Rapha says. 

“Meanwhile, the mechanically recycled polyester is sourced from post-consumer waste in Asia.

“The two come together in Poland, before being sent back to China where it’s cut and sewn into a finished jersey.”

Rapha clarifies that the RWS certification is up to fabric level, not just yarn, so it leaves the Poland mill with the certification.

“We’ve put in the work to trace each fibre back to the source, but it’s clear to see that the supply chain for materials is complex,” Rapha notes.

“Having this information to hand is the first step to making adjustments that will make things more efficient and ultimately minimise emissions.”

So, is merino cycling kit really sustainable?

It’s a complicated process to produce a top-performing merino product - so there’s certainly a lot more to consider when using merino wool than just its natural performance benefits.

While merino does boast a lot of amazing natural performance benefits - it’s warm, comfy, breathable, quick-drying and odour resistant - it could also do with a little bit of extra stretch and strength, particularly to meet the demands of cycling. 

Brands often blend merino with other fibres such as nylon and elastane to increase the durability and elasticity of the clothing for improved comfort, fit and lifespan which will help lengthen the use phase, but this does limit biodegradability and recyclability, as well as increasing the steps in its journey across the world, from raw materials to the final product. 

Cycling kit that is ethically produced - made from non-mulesing merino wool and meeting certifications such as RSW - begins its journey as far away as Australia or New Zealand. 

But merino wool is a good environmental choice during the use and end-of-life phase. Thanks to its naturally odour-resistant and anti-bacterial qualities the social and hygienic reasons for washing frequently are significantly reduced, and it’s quick-drying too so it’s possible to dry in an energy-saving way. That said, it’s down to you to follow through with these good practices. 

Merino wool also won’t be polluting the ocean when being washed and once you’ve finished using it, it can biodegrade fully when buried in soil. 

Knowing what you know now about merino manufacturing, will you be buying merino cycling kit in future? 

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114 comments

Avatar
Rich_cb replied to mdavidford | 2 years ago
3 likes

But where did that come from originally?

It was derived from atmospheric co2 and had merely been trapped in my base layer for a few years.

The whole process is carbon neutral.

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mdavidford replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
3 likes

Rich_cb wrote:

But where did that come from originally?

From the stars.

Avatar
chrisonabike replied to mdavidford | 2 years ago
4 likes

mdavidford wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

But where did that come from originally?

From the stars.

Alright smartiepants, where did the stars come from then? What about the emissions involved in setting up a multiverse? We'll want the life-cycle analysis of that before you go making base layer suggestions.

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wycombewheeler replied to chrisonabike | 2 years ago
2 likes

chrisonatrike wrote:

mdavidford wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

But where did that come from originally?

From the stars.

Alright smartiepants, where did the stars come from then? What about the emissions involved in setting up a multiverse? We'll want the life-cycle analysis of that before you go making base layer suggestions.

I think it's fair to say the sun has been the biggest source of global warming  over the last 50 years.

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hawkinspeter replied to wycombewheeler | 2 years ago
3 likes

wycombewheeler wrote:

I think it's fair to say the sun has been the biggest source of global warming  over the last 50 years.

I know their reporting is fairly dismal, but you can't just blame the rag for global warming.

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
2 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

wycombewheeler wrote:

I think it's fair to say the sun has been the biggest source of global warming  over the last 50 years.

I know their reporting is fairly dismal, but you can't just blame the rag for global warming.

Why not? It causes much venting of hot air. If everyone carried a Mirror or two that might help reflect though. (Causing reflection of solar radiation, not by the carriers that is).

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TheBillder replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
0 likes
Rich_cb wrote:

But where did that come from originally?

It was derived from atmospheric co2 and had merely been trapped in my base layer for a few years.

The whole process is carbon neutral.

That's a bit like spending all your savings and saying that's neutral, burning biomass etc. The sheep eating grass is an inefficient way to turn sunlight and carbon dioxide into wool - we would be better off using something that doesn't need an animal.

I don't know what material is right, having been educated away from bamboo on another thread. Tencel?

And all this is a bit moot if Rapha are going to transport it all from Aus to Italy to Poland to China to the UK to wherever the stereotype lives, having stuck a green label on it.

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Rich_cb replied to TheBillder | 2 years ago
1 like

Not really.

The whole point of net zero is that there is no net increase in atmospheric CO2.

A sheep can live on marginal terrain that's unsuitable for growing crops and produce a useful product for no net increase in CO2.

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Rendel Harris replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
4 likes

Rich_cb wrote:

A sheep can live on marginal terrain that's unsuitable for growing crops and produce a useful product for no net increase in CO2.

It can indeed and that's why sheep and other ruminants such as goats have been favoured by self-supporting communities in arid areas. However, the industrial production of lamb/mutton and/or wool frequently requires large-scale land clearances and tree felling to provide sufficient pasture, leading to long-term soil erosion and flooding issues downstream. You only have to look at our own dear Lake District or Welsh mountains to see this effect in action.

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Rich_cb replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
0 likes

This is true but is equally true of cotton or wheat or potatoes etc.

It's also a lot easier to encourage biodiversity on a sheep farm than an arable farm that, by its nature, requires large areas of monoculture.

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Simon E replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
3 likes

Rich_cb wrote:

A sheep can live on marginal terrain that's unsuitable for growing crops and produce a useful product for no net increase in CO2.

Simply not true, I'm afraid.

Land management (though much lower than some other livestock types) such as nitrates, manure and other products applied to the land, ploughing or cultivating, reseeding, fencing, draining, dealing with invasive species like gorse or bracken. Straw from arable crops, winter feed, feed supplements and supplies from energy-intensive sources using national or regional agribusinesses chain which itself has significant infrastructure and logistical overheads. Vet visits and treatments such as dips and drenches for a range of conditions, particularly expensive and time-consuming during spring lambing. Farmhouse (often large, poorly insulated and heated with solid fuel). Family members, employees or contractors may need to travel to the farm regularly. Quad bike, tractors, 4x4 and a big shed full of machinery (or hiring a contractor as required). A trailer or HGV for moving the animals between fields/holdings and transporting them some distance to a livestock market then on to slaughterhouse (nowadays this could well be a 4 or 5 hour journey, not a short trundle down to the local abattoir). The sheared wool has to be collected, bagged, transported, washed, dyed, spun, knitted, transported some more...

And that's just a rough list from memory. Machinery, materials and energy used at every single step in the process.

Rich_cb wrote:

It's also a lot easier to encourage biodiversity on a sheep farm than an arable farm that, by its nature, requires large areas of monoculture.

You're comparing apples and oranges. And not all arable farms are thousands of hectares of flat, hedgeless prairie.

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Rich_cb replied to Simon E | 2 years ago
3 likes

Virtually every single one of those applies to arable farming too. Some even more so than a sheep farm.

All arable farms require large areas of monoculture by default. Sheep farms do not.

Comparing a sheep farm to an arable farm is perfectly reasonable, the alternatives to wool are produced on arable farms. If we're going to make the most sustainable choice we have to compare the production of wool to the production of its alternatives.

The farmer happening to live in a draughty house is a bit irrelevant.

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Simon E replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
1 like

Rich_cb wrote:

Comparing a sheep farm to an arable farm is perfectly reasonable, the alternatives to wool are produced on arable farms.

You're welcome to your barley gloves and straw baselayer but it will be uncomfortable and won't last long.

And no, the points I made were not irrelevant. You're just not willing to admit that you may have been a bit wide of the mark.

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Rich_cb replied to Simon E | 2 years ago
1 like

Is a cotton farm or a bamboo farm not arable?

Your points are entirely irrelevant in the context of this discussion as those factors are constant between different materials and therefore meaningless in any comparison.

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Rendel Harris replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
4 likes

Rich_cb wrote:

Is a cotton farm or a bamboo farm not arable?

In the case of bamboo, not generally; arable land is land that can sustain regular tillage and repeated crop growth, one of the advantages of bamboo is that it grows quite happily on land that can't support this, so it's rare for it to be grown on land that could be used for foodstuffs. Its tolerance for marginal land (land with little or no agricultural value), along with its rapid growth, is what makes it such a useful material.

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Rich_cb replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
1 like

Whilst it can be grown on marginal land it often isn't, particularly where it is grown outside of South East Asia, so perhaps the strict definition of 'arable' would require a case by case evaluation.

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ktache replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
3 likes

Just as an aside, and not very cycling, but is linen more sustainable than cotton or even bamboo?

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hawkinspeter replied to ktache | 2 years ago
4 likes

ktache wrote:

Just as an aside, and not very cycling, but is linen more sustainable than cotton or even bamboo?

From a very brief look, bamboo is the best, followed by linen with cotton in last place. I've previously heard that cotton requires lots of water to grow it, but I don't know if that's still true. However, often what is advertised as bamboo is bamboo processed into rayon which uses nasty chemicals and would be less sustainable than cotton.

Also, it depends on where the plants are sourced from - bamboo snatched from the paws of hungry pandas is not going to be a good consumer choice to make (unless you hate pandas).

Found this article: https://www.treehugger.com/do-you-know-which-fabrics-are-most-sustainable-4858778

That makes it look like wool is a good choice (unless you are vegan).

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Rich_cb replied to hawkinspeter | 2 years ago
1 like
hawkinspeter wrote:

That makes it look like wool is a good choice (unless you are vegan).

Especially so when you consider the climate effect of methane (Wool's main contribution to climate change) only lasts for about 10-15 years.

After that time it's essentially carbon neutral.

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Rendel Harris replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
2 likes

Rich_cb wrote:

Especially so when you consider the climate effect of methane (Wool's main contribution to climate change) only lasts for about 10-15 years. After that time it's essentially carbon neutral.

Sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. Yes, methane has a half life in the climate of around 9-12 years (during which time it has a far worse effect on the climate than CO2, see below), after which it reacts with ozone and breaks down into water and carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide thus produced goes on affecting the climate for many centuries. That is not carbon neutral. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Fifth Assessment Report of 2013 assessed methane's climate heating influence as 84 times worse for global heating than CO2 when averaged over twenty years or 28 times worse averaged over a century. The climate effect of methane does not "only last for about 10-15 years."

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Rich_cb replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
1 like

You've made a fundamental error there Rendel.

CO2 + H2O via plant and animal = CH4
CH4 degrades to CO2 and H2O.

Net increase in CO2 is zero.

If herd size is constant net effect on warming is zero. Methane production is entirely offset by methane degradation.

You shouldn't confuse methane from animals and plants and methane from fossil fuels.

Whilst chemically identical only methane from fossil fuels will worsen climate change as only methane from fossil fuels increases the level of atmospheric CO2.

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wtjs replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
3 likes

You've made a fundamental error there Rendel....

This criticism of Rendel is such a load of tripe that it's not even worth the time taken to scan quickly over it

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Rich_cb replied to wtjs | 2 years ago
2 likes

What a well argued riposte. Here is the argument in a bit more detail.

https://clear.ucdavis.edu/explainers/why-methane-cattle-warms-climate-di....

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Rendel Harris replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
1 like

Rich_cb wrote:

If herd size is constant net effect on warming is zero.

And if you increase the herd size, for example to breed more sheep to meet demands for merino wool, it isn't. As the human population grows so demands for meat, dairy, wool etc grows and so the herd size increases (for example there are more than twice as many cattle in the world now than in 1950). Your carbon neutrality and zero warming effect depends, as you admit, on a constant herd size which, as you know, does not pertain. No fundamental errors, just facts.

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Rich_cb replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
0 likes

Apart from that enormous error about CO2/CH4 no fundamental errors at all.

Last time we discussed this we established that the global herd size for cattle had been fairly constant for the last decade meaning that at present there is no net increase in methane from global cattle and therefore no net increase in warming.

If herd sizes decrease or husbandry improvements decrease methane output per animal (many such methods already exist) then the net effect on global temperatures will be negative.

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Rendel Harris replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
2 likes

Rich, I know your MO is to go on and on and on ad infinitum for page after page until people give up, but really, this is the most basic climate science imaginable. Livestock eat plants. They convert those plants into methane. The methane increases global warming and then converts to carbon dioxide, which further increases global warming. You appear to be unable to understand the difference between carbon sequestered in plants which will eventually be sequestered in the soil and ultimately become fossil fuel and carbon converted from plants to methane and CO2 and released into the atmosphere by livestock. It's mindboggling that you actually believe that livestock production is carbon neutral because eventually the CO2 it produces degrades - after being in the atmosphere for centuries!

Sorry, I've followed you down too many rabbit holes and chased too many of your red herrings in the past, it's just not worth it, I know you will just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over.

P.S. You should at least do a little basic research into your sources: that frankly ludicrous report you linked to below is by Frank Mitloehner, who is a notable promoter of meat-based diets and is funded by the US livestock industry.

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Rich_cb replied to Rendel Harris | 2 years ago
0 likes

This is very basic science Rendel.

If the level of CO2 in the atmosphere increases it warms the planet. I think we both agree on that.

If a plant absorbs a molecule of co2 then the atmospheric level of co2 decreases.

That molecule of co2 is then converted to ch4 and then degrades back to co2.

There is no net increase in co2. Without a net increase in co2 there is no increase in warming.

The exact same principle applies to methane.

If the level of methane in the atmosphere stays constant then the world does not warm.

A herd of cows that was established more than 12 years ago and that remains the same size produces no net increase in methane and therefore no ongoing effect on warming.

If the herd size decreases or produces less methane per animal the net effect will actually be cooling.

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mdavidford replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
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Rich_cb wrote:

If the herd size decreases or produces less methane per animal the net effect will actually be cooling.

I think you might be confusing a reduction in warming with cooling there - they're not the same thing.

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Rich_cb replied to mdavidford | 2 years ago
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I'm not.

The effect will be cooling.

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mdavidford replied to Rich_cb | 2 years ago
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Rich_cb wrote:

I'm not. The effect will be cooling.

How so? If we accept, for the sake of argument, that the CO2 has a circular lifecycle, so effectively levels remain stable, the net effect would be a lower amount of methane in the atmosphere. But there will still be methane, and that will still have a warming effect. It's like taking off your 4 seasons duvet and putting a 3 seasons one on instead.

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