Cyclist killed in two-car collision in Norfolk; police say 'low winter sun' a problem on the roads that day

To wwfcb,
From the information article above I was expressing an opinion.
Driver hits cyclist wearing high viz, using lights and helmet in sunshine.
Highway Code 125 states '"You should always reduce your speed when - weather conditions make it safer to do so"
237 states "If you are dazzled by bright sunlight, slow down and if necessary, stop".

I live a few miles away from the scene of the accident and I am familiar with the road.
A few points to be made aware of.
It was sunny on the day concerned but at that time of day at this time of year it is not a factor.
Since cycling has become more popular I see a lot more cyclists on the roads, which is a good thing, but at this time of day, it would not have been a road I would have liked to cycle on at all. I will go miles out of my way to avoid such roads if I can.
The last point is the standard of driving around here is appalling, not all drivers, but a lot more than I would expect. I cycle to work most days and almost every journey, suffer from some chronic driving. I see people on the phone all the time, overtaking me on blind bends, my latest amazement was seeing a woman put on her reading glasses so she could read a text, whilst driving.
The road planners have a lot to answer, some of the so called traffic calming measures just forces traffic directly into my path. Vehicle drivers just see me as a soft skin and force their way through. Traffic just sees cyclists as an obsticle to get around as quickly as possible.
Sadly I fear that it will be a while before other road users change their attitude. In the mean time my thoughts go out to the family and friends of the cyclist concerned.

This excuse nonsense is pretty endemic though. Only on Sunday a friend of ours was hit from behind by an overtaking driver on the outside of her car as she made a right turn from a right turn lane. This was just up the road and she stooped at our house as she was bit shocked. He (other driver) had immediately said he thought she was dithering and that she wasn't indicating. She says she was, and she was quite upset that he seemed immediately to be blaming her.

I'm an advanced driver so after giving her a cup of tea set her straight on that.

1 He was on the wrong side of the road.
2 He was overtaking on the outside of a right turn lane when their were cars in that lane.

In other words he was completely to blame 100%.

Highway Code 167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example:

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

Once she had that info on board she felt much happier. There definitely ought to be far more made of drivers claiming that others are at fault and causing even more distress and expense. As it happens I think when the insurance company sees his excuse they'll just pay up. But there ought to be a fine or sanction for time wasting adding distress etc.

I wouldn't expect people to simply admit fault for a start that might invalidate your insurance. They need to pass on details like a grown up and not indulge in making up their own traffic rules as excuses.

Shouldn't an insurance company be duty bound to note and refer driver statements when it is clear that the driver concerned seems to have no clue about appropriate driving and or the Highway code. ie where they think overtaking a right turn lane on the right is completely fine.

A few weeks back whilst commuting I was seeing large numbers of cyclists with one hand up shielding their eyes from the sun. Slow down? Nah....

Frequently ignored, 'drive as conditions allow'. Frequently used excuse,'I couldn't see, the sun was in my eyes'.

Absolute clear case of driving without due care and attention. However it's entirely acceptable to kill cyclist in this country and get off scott free of course. In fact why not prosecute the dead cyclist for causing the accident.
Let's see how Norfolk Constabulary perform.

If the witness is to be believed (was it the same cyclist?) they had lights, hi-viz and a helmet. So what more could they do other than not cycle on that road!

Elephant in the room. The car hit the cyclist!

there's now a more detailed story on the Eastern Daily press: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/witness_appeal_after_cyclist_dies_on_a140_at...

Whatever the situation with the investigation and the reporting of it and taking into account understandable anger at another fatality, that's a lot of comments with no mention of the people involved. If I've read right, only tourdelound has offered any sort of condolences. My thoughts and prayers are for the cyclists family.

I sympathise with the drivers too - I'm sure most of us (cyclists) also drive, and there is such a thing as a genuine accident. We wouldn't want to be vilified by those who don't know the full circumstances. While they're not dead or seriously injured, it must still be a horrendous situation to find themselves in.

RIP to the two fellow cyclists, and thoughts are with their bereaved family and friends.

These are all good points. A good rule of thumb for cyclists is to keep an eye on your own shadow. If it is long, and pointing directly in front of you, then recognise the potential for danger. Conversely, if the sun is directly in front of you, and close to the horizon, take a different route.

@ Road.cc headline writer:

When changing inflamatory and much discussed headline from

police say 'low winter sun' could be a factor

to

police say 'low winter sun' a problem on the roads that day

you ought maybe to add an edit note to the story, to allow the comments to continue making sense. Nicer for future readers!

just thinking, would the police saying an accident, at this stage of the investigation, was caused by low sun be in anyway a illegal? ie predjucing the trial????

If after a formal investigation low sun is found to be a factor, fine, imo it is never a cause!, but until a formal investigation is concluded are the police legally allowed to say it was caused by?

Ahem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8pX52v_yNA

Incidentally, 'sun' was a factor when me and my mate got shunted off a road a couple of years ago - no prosecutions despite my mate's bike being hit with enough force to taco the rear wheel and mangle the bejeezus out of the frame

While there is an investigation on-going, any Police statement will only give the basic facts, of the incident.

http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2013/december/fat...

The Police have not indicated that 'low sun' is a factor in this incident.

As I read the report in the local paper:
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/witness_appeal_after_cyclist_dies_on_a140_at...

The cyclist was traveling in one direction (south) and the car the other (North)

I don't feel too strongly about this. I think they just bunged two things into one point in a tweet. Road.cc's headline is overegging things here. Plenty to get angry about elsewhere.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant eh?

The Norfolk Police tweeted that people should take care on account of the low winter sun affecting visibility. This is reasonable advice for road users (if a bit bleedin' obvious).

It is the headline writer who has linked this to the cause of the RTA, not the police -- another example of Road.cc's editorial team egging on the rabid tendency among its readers.

Note to sub-editor: stick to the facts.

Excuses excuses. Never the bloody driver's fault!

poor visibility? slow the feck down. simple. anyone who doesn't and causes a collision should be charged with careless or even dangerous driving.

Typical excuses for sure. Yep, try walking down the high street with a blind fold on whilst swinging a crow bar around and see where a similarly lame excuse as to your conduct will get you.

This readiness to excuse such plain stupidity is a critical barrier to address. Personal responsibility for your own actions does seem to have been eroded for some years now, seemingly nothing is actually anyone's fault any more...unless you can attach a claim to it with a privately executed legal claim.

Perhaps families of those left behind by such acts of stupidity should instigate civil suits against the estates of those responsible. So, the court punishes the driver with a sit on the naughty step and an £80 fine but then the remaining family introduce an actual deterrent by obtaining a crippling court order for damages to be paid over whatever period necessary by the offender.

I mean, if you earn say £1200 month and have disposable income of maybe £150 it will get pretty tedious having that removed month after month after month to pay for your actions.

Perhaps such stories of woe filtering into society will encourage others to behave themselves when faced with the prospect of essentially being broke for years to come. I acknowledge there are issues with this but let's face it, the current flashing road signs and softly softly approach to pleading with motorists to stop the killing is hardly working is it?

Unfortunately a monetary penalty may be the only real thing the die hard petrol head might understand in combination with lifelong driving bans for those found guilty of taking life or effectively ending life through serious injury caused by recklessness.

Reduced visibility due to low sun/fog/rain/whatever? SLOW DOWN!

I am sick of hearing feeble excuses, if you cannot see properly and do not take appropriate action you should be 100% liable for your actions. I was nearly taken out in a head-on collision a couple of weeks ago where low sun was undoubtedly the issue, with the driver swerving at the last second to avoid me. She was however driving at a crazy speed for the conditions - a muddy single width country lane.

When did the age of personal responsibility come to an end?

It is, of course, quite normal for the police to make excuses for poor driving. They are far too ready to accept the flimsiest explanation and even to fabricate ridiculous excuses when the far more obvious reason, extremely poor, dangerous driving is to blame.

Quick check of the road direction- bascially north south, with slight tilt that would mean low sun may be a problem before noon. Not so much after it.