“Can’t wait for speed limits at the next F1 race in Vegas”: Cyclists and motorists baffled by new “April Fools” 20mph time trial rules; Terrible anti-cycling barriers; Breaking (Away) Bad: Oscar Onley’s training/ painting gear + more on the live blog

Kieselguhr Kid wrote:

Planning a race route through a reduced speed zone without closing the road for the race doesn't seem like the best idea

It's a time trial, almost all of them are on public roads. There's zero chance of closing them for a cycling TT. And having part/parts of a TT course nullified through a 20mph zone is simply not going to work.

Kieselguhr Kid wrote:

I realise there are issues with the accuracy of Strava times but these are amateur events so accuracy to the split second isn't the most important thing.

It's not just split-seconds. So you're saying it's fine if our times are inaccurate because we don't get paid to race? How is that going to encourage participation? Chip timing is the best solution (where practical), though it's not cheap and won't work on public roads.

As someone said elsewhere, perhaps a move away from fixed distances (10, 25, 50 miles etc) is the way forward.

Jakrayan wrote:

I'm a little curious though, I didn't know you could "turn Australian" (naturalise sure) I'm presuming he recently turned professional!

Side effect of vegemite sandwich doping?

Unlike the ULEZ cameras the vigilanted are cutting down in a similar fashion, those barriers are designed to withstand harsh impact a bit better than a lamppost. Cutting them might prove a lot more difficult, and because they are more popular amongst the anti-cycling lobby than ULEZ, they'll blab harder if they see anything.

I'd had that thought.   Could we get them excluded for drafting d'you think? 

They are open roads. There is live traffic at the point of racing.

There is nowhere near the budget to be able to close roads off for this event, you would be looking at well into £bn territory because there are literally thousands of events every year.

The courses that we use, however are carefully chosen and inspected to ensure that they are as safe as possible for competitors, and without disruption. For instance, courses must not go through traffic lights, and will only take left turns at junctions (excluding roundabouts). Courses on Dual Carriageways are carefully monitored to ensure that traffic levels are reasonable, and that the course doesn't leave riders vulnerable to merging traffic with blind spots. Courses must be approved by the CTT (Cycling Time Trials - the Governing body responsible for TT racing in the UK) and will be given an allocated code for approval.

Thanks for the clarification, I thought they would have restricted access as they do in pro races and big marathons.

To be honest, any kind of race in roads open to motor traffic seem like a Cannonball race to me. I believe the speed limit is a thing to worry but not the most important one, as there will be victory-hungry guys willing to risk anything.

cyclisto wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, I thought they would have restricted access as they do in pro races and big marathons.

To be honest, any kind of race in roads open to motor traffic seem like a Cannonball race to me. I believe the speed limit is a thing to worry but not the most important one, as there will be victory-hungry guys willing to risk anything.

no need because there is no bunch, there is no jockeying for position, just a load of riders well spread out, each going as fast as they can at speed which (until now) are below the speed limit anyway.

For Time Trials usually at small club events there are normally 10 to 20 riders (but often space for up to 40), and on the bigger "Open" events (which accumulate league points for riders for qualification to regional and National championships) there are up to 100.

But riders start off at 1 minute intervals and rarely come together on course. Faster riders will always overtake slower riders who set off before them but there's no big risk.

Marshalls will be stationed at key risk areas, turns etc in case of incident, any rider running foul of Road Laws are DQ'd.

The Road Racing leagues, however, are bunch events. They are usually circuits that are made up of rural roads, and require British Cycling Commissaires to be present. The race will always have a Commissaire car at around 1/2 mile in front of the race to ensure safety, whilst marshals will keep an eye out for dangerous riding. You also can't ride road races without obtaining your Cat 4 licence - You can't enter on a Provisional race licence, unlike closed-circuit races such as Circuit Crit series, Cyclocross or MTB.

For both RR and TT safety briefings are given to competitors where necessary.

If you go cannonball and break rules, you will probably be caught.

Quieter rural courses also don't see heavy traffic. You might see 10 to 20 cars in both directions over a 10 mile event. Dual carriageways are used at times when two lanes of traffic are unlikely to occur - these are mostly used on weekend mornings.

cyclisto wrote:

I hear this fuss about TT races and speed limits, but I am a bit confused. Are these TT races on open to motor traffic and pedestrians roads or to closed like the finishes I see on Tour de France, where even pedestrians are behind restricted access tape?

Yes, it's a peculiarly British thing that arose because mass start racing on open public roads was banned in the UK in 1890, so in 1895 someone (name escapes me) came up with the idea of time trials instead, and they have remained our primary way of racing ever since.

Rendel Harris wrote:

cyclisto wrote:

I hear this fuss about TT races and speed limits, but I am a bit confused. Are these TT races on open to motor traffic and pedestrians roads or to closed like the finishes I see on Tour de France, where even pedestrians are behind restricted access tape?

Yes, it's a peculiarly British thing that arose because mass start racing on open public roads was banned in the UK in 1890, so in 1895 someone (name escapes me) came up with the idea of time trials instead, and they have remained our primary way of racing ever since.

I believe it was all racing on roads that was banned, not just mass start and it was mandated that clubs organised races in velodromes. The point of the single rider against the clock was that if they were spotted, they were simply somebody on a bike (no skinsuits, no P5X or Shivs back then). This is also why the courses have codes assigned to them, so if somebody found a secret entry list, they wouldn't know where the race was being held. 

On the topic of open traffic, my local 10 mile TT event (P451/10) is held weekly during the season on Tuesday nights, it's all on NSL A road, around a third of that is dualled, the people I know who do it regularly have said that the vehicles going past at 60-70mph creates an advantageous drafting effect, it's known as a fast course.

mark1a wrote:

I believe it was all racing on roads that was banned, not just mass start and it was mandated that clubs organised races in velodromes.

Yes you're right, I'd forgotten all races were banned. Bizarrely it was not the law that banned racing but the National Cyclists Union, who feared that all cycling would be banned if racing continued. The police were so hostile to racing that mounted officers would charge riders and try to throw sticks in their spokes. It's interesting to note, in the context of today's hiviz debates, that the standard TT uniform was black sweater and black tights in the hope that racers would be harder for the police to spot.

Don't they close the roads for the IoM TT? Pretty sure I've not seen any motorbikes weaving their way through traffic at 150mph.

Seen any cyclists doing that recently?  The national teams would love to hear.

D.Railleur wrote:

Don't they close the roads for the IoM TT? Pretty sure I've not seen any motorbikes weaving their way through traffic at 150mph.

Doesn't matter - "Shaun" said 'on the public highway' with no reference to whether said public highway was at that time closed to the public.

brooksby wrote:

D.Railleur wrote:

Don't they close the roads for the IoM TT? Pretty sure I've not seen any motorbikes weaving their way through traffic at 150mph.

Doesn't matter - "Shaun" said 'on the public highway' with no reference to whether said public highway was at that time closed to the public.

Seems obvious that the reference to road closures was there in Shaun's preceding sentence.

brooksby]</p>

<p>[quote=D.Railleur wrote:

Don't they close the roads for the IoM TT? Pretty sure I've not seen any motorbikes weaving their way through traffic at 150mph.

Actually if you read shaun's quote...

“If you want to TT, get a road closure or do it on a track. Sport shouldn't take place on the public highway. I'm a cyclist by the way,” says ‘cyclist’ Shaun.

TTs were about before cars Shaun

Tourist trophy, not time trial.

The nearest motorsport equivalent to this stuff is when the WRC turn up in Wales for Rally GB. Competitors drive on open roads in full factory spec rally cars between stages and servicing.

They're fully expected to keep to all applicable road traffic laws, including speed limits, and the police prosecute those that don't.

Still sport though.

stonojnr wrote:

The nearest motorsport equivalent to this stuff is when the WRC turn up in Wales for Rally GB. Competitors drive on open roads in full factory spec rally cars between stages and servicing. They're fully expected to keep to all applicable road traffic laws, including speed limits, and the police prosecute those that don't.

Watch out for the service barges though.  They are not brightly coloured, do not carry numbers and have to cover greater road distances in less time than the competing cars. 

There's also the Circuit of Ireland which is raced over a number of stages both paved and forest tracks. When it was a longer event many years ago the drivers were timed travelling between stages and if they were faster than the official average time they were penalised. There would also have been random stewards at junctions to observe light jumping.