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news
Nigel Havers and Laura Laker (via Jeremy Vine on Twitter)“No cars go through a red light – every cyclist does,” claims Nigel Havers
Actor Nigel Havers has claimed that “no cars go through a red light,” while “every cyclist does,” during a discussion with cycling writer Laura Laker hosted by Jeremy Vine on his BBC Radio 2 TV show.
The exchange took place during Vine’s afternoon programme on the station yesterday, with footage subsequently shared on his social media channels by the host.
Absolutely fascinating today @BBCRadio2 — @NigelHaversUK in the studio to complain about the behaviour of cyclists, along with @laura_laker who has written #PotholesAndPavements disagreeing that they offend more than any other road user.
Really worth hearing this exchange — pic.twitter.com/ebUPmDjxUT— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) May 10, 2024
“All road users break the law in equal amount,” Laker pointed out. “I’m not saying that that’s right.
“We know that roads policing got decimated a decade ago, we lost 20,000 police officers, and so all of road user behaviour has got worse, drivers have become more aggressive, perhaps cyclists have become more aggressive too.”
Interjecting, Havers said: “I don’t break the law, I don’t break the rules” before claiming that “motor cars aren’t going through red lights.”
Havers invited Laker, whose book on the National Cycle Network Potholes & Pavements was published just last week and who is a contributor to road.cc, to join him “at a crossroads where no cars go through a red light, every cyclist does.”
“That’s not true,” Laker countered. “Definitely people break the law in their cars, with mobile phone use, we know that’s illegal and it’s as bad as drink-driving, even driving hands-free.”
“I don’t know what planet you’re on,” said Havers, who is reported to have been fined £500 and banned for driving for 12 months after being convicted of drink-driving in 1991.
“Come and stand on the crossroads with me and you’ll see every single cyclist go through the red light.”
While it’s true that some cyclists do go through red lights, so too do many motorists, and Laker highlighted that it is the latter who are involved in, on average, five deaths a day on Britain’s roads as well as crashes that leave thousands more people seriously injured.
Undeterred, Havers, who in 2020 called for the removal of the temporary cycle lane briefly installed on Kensington High Street, insisted: “I have not seen a car go through a red light in London in years.”
“I know, but because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist,” replied Laker.
“So you think cars go through red lights just as much as cyclists?” asked Havers, incredulously.
“It’s not cars, it’s drivers,” clarified Laker, who in 2021 worked alongside Westminster University’s Active Travel Academy in developing guidelines for the language the media should use when reporting on road traffic collisions, which are still all too often deemed to be chance ‘accidents’ or in which vehicles crash without a driver seemingly being present.
“If car drivers are not breaking the law, how come vehicles are killing 1,700 people a year,” asked Vine, whose regularly posts videos of law-breaking drivers to his social media channels.
“Well, I mean …” responded Havers, before pausing, eventually breaking the silence by spluttering the word, “cyclists.”
The issue of cyclists and the law has been a high-profile one in the media this week after a coroner’s inquest into the death of a retired teacher who was struck by a cyclist riding in group in London’s Regent’s Park heard that the rider would face no charges in connection with the crash.
A Metropolitan Police officer told the inquest into the death of 81-year-old Hilda Griffiths that there was “insufficient evidence for a real prospect of conviction” of the cyclist concerned, Brian Fitzgerald, with the officer also confirming unlike motorists, cyclists are not required to adhere to posted speed limits.
Thankfully, road traffic collisions in which a pedestrian is killed following a crash with a cyclist are very rare, with Cycling UK citing official statistics that reveal there are on average around three such fatalities each year.
And it is the very fact that they happen so rarely that sees such incidents and, in their aftermath, wider cyclist behaviour, become the focus of intense media attention in a way that the vast majority of road traffic fatalities in which a motorist is involved do not.
Often, such media coverage takes the form of newspaper columns from celebrities – one example this weekend being found in the Express, with broadcaster Richard Madely calling for cyclists to be registered, and forced to carry insurance – something the government has rejected time and again.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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116 comments
I've scanned the heavens but can't see an asteroid with Havers' name on it.
I wonder whether it's possible to send Mr Havers the video of the white van that drove on the pavement to get around me while I was waiting for the red light to change and from the same ride the SUV that accelerated past me on the wrong side of the road when I braked as the light turned red.
I was going to write out a long comment citing various statistics and references regarding motoring offences but decided against it because Nigel Havers is a complete twat !
Unrepentant drink driving twat!
"If car drivers are not breaking the law, how come vehicles are killing 1,700 people a year."
Something of a logic failure here. Maybe the cars are spontaneously exploding. Maybe the people are throwing themselves in front of them. The fact that someone dies does not imply someone is breaking the law. Mr Havers should have spotted this one.
Impeccable courtroom logic of course.
"So Mr. Smith, this is the 10th time we've been called to the scene of a fatal incident this month. And they all seem to be taking place on the footpaths. And just like the last here's a mangled body and someone's leg clutched in the mouth of a large
cowdog. *Your* dog, yes?"Oh - we've not spoken to you before? And of course walking a dog is entirely legal. Hmm... Well, nothing more for us to do here. Just seen to be a lot of these events happening. Mind how you go, sir."
To be fair, it's such a staggeringly stupid comment by Havers, that I'm surprised Laura even had a response. I suppose the 711,000 UK prosecutions in 2022 for motoring offences might have been a better reply. And that's from the roads being barely policed at all.
Havers - and his supporters - would just claim this is evidence of the War On Motorists and that cycling is lawless, because obviously cyclists commit far more offences but not a single one of them is ever prosecuted for it.
To be fair, I'm astonished that Havers hasn't joined that odd statistic of people that have managed to run themselves over.
I ride an 800cc Honda
Every day commuting I will roll up at an amber
Every day I hear drivers accelerate to pass and go through.
Every day I see drivers fail to beat the red, but shoot through...
Couple of sets of lights I will filter to the front and chat with the regular cyclists I know, till the light goes green....
Every day I see drivers fail to beat the red, but shoot through...
In Lancashire, on the A6, it's so routine to crash through red lights, they're even teaching the L riders to do it. No response from the police to these.
https://upride.cc/incident/pj23vmc_honda125_redlightcross/
https://upride.cc/incident/k7ddy_audia4_redlightpass/
Let's have an experiment. I propose that we cyclists stand next to a set of traffic lights and, clandestinely, film traffic for half an hour. We can then tally the number of motorists, and non-motorists, jumping red lights, on phones, picking noses etc etc etc. Just for a bit of fun.
Had one yesterday where none of us could work out why this Range Rover 4x4 hadnt moved off after literally only being briefly halted in a traffic queue for 5 secs.
the driver had decided it was a good moment to brush up applying her mascara skills whilst driving.
She hadn't a clue what was happening on the road or around her, could easily have taken out pedestrians crossing the road when she booted it to catch up with the other traffic.
If the Police were to set up cameras at the Island Roundabout in Stafford on any day of the week, at any time of night or day they would make MILLIONS from fines from people jumping the lights, using their phone, blocking the yellow box junction, getting in the wrong lane to jump the queue.... indeed, almost anything but using the road correctly.
I, for one, am in favour of the Police being self financing via driving fines.
Not if the Transport Minister gets his way, DoT have just run a survey on these offences and how councils are using these offences toi create financial surplusses
Well done Laura on not just laughing at him!
I can't believe that he wouldn't simply back down with "OK, some cyclists" (which would have been accurate) but stuck to the ludicrous assertion that "all cyclists"...
BBC R4 on Broadcasting House 9:45 papers segment happily having another "but cycles" hitting most of the wrong notes, stringing together Auriol Gray and the pensioner killed in Regent's Park and eBikes ... However this is redeemed at the end by the guests who confess they're London cyclists.
BBC R4 on Broadcasting House 9:45 papers segment happily having another "but cycles" hitting most of the wrong notes
I heard this too- I was camped on a hilltop after spending the night awaiting a non-arriving aurora
I've cycled many many thousands of miles and I don't recall ever going through a red light.
I have occasionally hopped off my bike and walked it as a pedestrian on the pavement before, for example at road works with horrendous queues of cars, but that is perfectly legal.
But perhaps I am a minority, I've definitely seen cyclists do it, I've also seen tons of cars do it, probably in equal numbers.
I would say the greatest offenders of red light jumping are mopeds, more specially the ones most people refer to as cycles but given they are using throttles and assist over 15mph on their electrically modified bikes these are now unlicensed, uninsured mopeds not ebikes or bicycles.
Nope you ain't the minority mate, I never ride through any red lights or ignore people waiting to cross on zebra crossings. More cyclists are seriously injured and killed each year from motor vehicles than pedestrians being hit by cyclists, and even then not by jumping lights. So according to Nigel Havers the reason 1700 cyclists are killed a year by motor vehicles is cyclists? Who's using his family brain cell today? Because it isn't his!
I'm in Bristol and the worst offenders by far are the riders of e-scooters (rental ones and the illegal privately owned ones). I appreciate that some element of confirmation bias probably apply, but it's bad enough that it really stands out if I see an e-scooter stopping at a red light.
I've posted on other topics the reasons behind why I sometimes jump red lights and some of the reasons also apply to e-scooters. However, I'm not sure whether the loss of momentum is as big a deal for e-scooter riders , but it's possible that starting off is more awkward as they have to gain their balance on them.
I do agree that I've seen e-scooters go through reds that I've stopped at, but then I'm quite selective about the conditions in which I RLJ. I think ultimately that when you see lots of riders (bikes and e-scooters) RLJ that it's a good indication that the junction isn't working for all road users. It's like when you see a "desire path" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path) - it's not worthwhile trying to change people's behaviour, but better to understand why they're doing what they're doing.
Then again, it could well be that traffic understands how poorly the roads are policed and when there's rampant speeding and phone use by drivers, it's difficult to have any respect for some laws.
Also perhaps when using a scooter it feels more like being a pedestrian? (This would apply to "mass cycling" too). When walking I don't always wait at red lights at signallised crossings, nor only cross at marked points.
The problem is we've also fixed it so that some of that feeling of "casual, relaxed, free mobility" is experienced by drivers. Not that I think that people would drive better if more nervous, tense or uncertain! However "careless, distracted, DGAF" certainly applies to some. I'd suggest it's not just a few wrong'uns either (though they exist) - "many of the people, some of the time".
That's my theory too - not in a car, possibly not cyclists either, so just behave as "fast pedestrians" rather than as motorised road users. Many cyclists feel the same, I suspect.
Full disclosure: I have never knowingly jumped a red light while riding a bike or driving a car, and I've never ridden an e-scooter.
I make a point of always stopping for red lights. Yes I've seen some cyclists ignore them, certainly not all.
but I can guarantee from the six sets of lights on my commute, when the lights are green for our direction of travel, there is always still at least 1 if not 2 drivers coming through on red at every set of traffic lights.
And its just as bad if I walk into town, in fact so bad the pedestrian crossings are delayed turning green for about 15-20secs, simply to cater for red light jumping drivers to clear before it's safe to cross
This is wonderful news. No drivers ever jump red lights. We don't need laws against something that nobody ever does so that's one law we can take off the statute book.
We have way too many laws in this country so getting rid of one of them must be a good thing, right? Right?
Or maybe all the drivers I see jumping red lights are actually cyclists in disguise. Yeah, that's probably it.
I've never actually heard anyone as their argument say "yeah but cyclists" before
It's like talking to a brexthicker.
And you sound like a remoaner. (See, two can play the name calling game.)
We had a vote, you lost, get over it. it was EIGHT YEARS AGO, FFS.
We had a vote in 1975, Brexiters lost and continued to whine and attempt to undermine the elected governments of the day in order to get their way for the next forty-one years, so we've got a way to go to catch up with you.
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