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news
Cyclists dismount Bath (Cllr Saskia Heijltjes)"Not every person on a cycle can dismount": Questions asked of 'cyclists dismount' signs on national cycle route during works
A councillor in Bath has spoken out criticising the council's decision to implement 'cyclists dismount' signs on a popular national cycle route through the city.
The signs have appeared on Cheap Street, part of National Cycle Route 4, a route Saskia Heijltjes points out is a "major route for cycling east to west in a low-traffic environment". The council says this is due to a "road safety audit" which made the suggestion ahead of roadworks to install bollards.
With the road closed, cyclists would ride around the works via the pavement, something Bath and North East Somerset Council said would have "required a circuitous route around the works marked out by white road markings" and risked "conflict between pedestrians and cyclists".
However, the Green Party councillor, formerly the city's first Bicycle Mayor, pointed out that "not every person on a cycle can dismount" and said she has "been asking questions about this for a while".
"I am disappointed by the fact that they haven't really thought it through beforehand. It's a major route for cycling east to west in a low-traffic environment," she told the Somerset Live. "It's a very narrow gap and once you dismount on, say, a cargo bike you are actually a very wide heavy thing."
Earlier this month, a campaign group for disabled cyclists called upon North East Lincolnshire Council to implement clearer signage for a town centre cycling ban. Wheels for Wellbeing said the "just get off an walk" attitude, that one councillor told local cyclists, "only works for people who can" walk their bikes.
"If you can't walk without pain or risk to your health, it's not as simple as 'just get off your bike and walk'," they said, highlighting signage seen in Wandsworth in London that instead states: 'Cyclists dismount unless a mobility aid'.
In reply to Bath's concerned councillor, a letter from council officers told Ms Heijltjes how the decision to put up 'cyclists dismount' signs had been made.
It said: "A marked cycle route on the footway around the works would have required a circuitous route around the works marked out by white road markings. Aside from the impact that the temporary road markings would have made on the natural stone paving at this location, it was felt that it would be difficult to enforce segregation of pedestrians from cyclists at this location potentially leading to conflict between pedestrians and cyclists.
"It had been noted by site management staff that cyclists had been passing through very quickly prior to the signs being erected."
Once completed the works will see bollards prevent motor traffic from accessing Cheap Street between 10am and 6pm, leaving the space open to cyclists and pedestrians, a sliding bollard providing access to blue badge holders and exempt vehicles.
Dan is the road.cc news editor and has spent the past four years writing stories and features, as well as (hopefully) keeping you entertained on the live blog. Having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for the Non-League Paper, Dan joined road.cc in 2020. Come the weekend you'll find him labouring up a hill, probably with a mouth full of jelly babies, or making a bonk-induced trip to a south of England petrol station... in search of more jelly babies.
Latest Comments
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Makes no difference. they still have no power to physically detain you
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Might be more room for cyclists and pedestrians to share the space safely if they move that huge sign from the middle of the pavement.
So...people are complaining because some cyclists cant apparently dismount
How the chuff do they get off then when they finish a ride?
Or even, how do they get on the bike in the first place?
And what sort of lunatic would suggest that cyclists cant dismount
Being one at the moment, to dismount you look for a suitable block or kerb or something raised above ground level, put your foot down on this and carefully ease your other leg over the saddle. Mounting is simply the reverse process. And it's still sufficiently uncomfortable that you don't want to do it unnecessarily. Without a block it is possible, but seriously painful, and I can't see anything to dismount on in the photo. However, once I am on the bike I can get around far more easily than on foot, which makes it worthwhile.
I assume that you only go on long rides then, as presumably these difficulties would mean that it's not worth it to take a short trip somewhere with no guarantee of dismounting.
There are bikes that do allow for easy on and offing - like a dutch bike or often folding bikes are easier still. You could use them
I recommend a trip round the Wheels For Wellbeing site (plus there are several folks on here IIRC who can also share.
Once was riding for a minute behind someone before realising what was odd - no leg on one side! Had a quick chat at the next lights, they found it much easier and more convenient than crutches or a wheelchair. It wasn't just getting on and off that was the issue...
EDIT crutches strapped along top tube IIRC, bike was also a folder FWIW but again it wasn't simply about the act of dismounting.
If you are only able to walk 20m or 50m, the definition of a "long trip" is a little different.
I believe <50m is the requirement to obtain a blue badge for your car (open to correction as I have nto looked it up).
As Rod suggests, they find a way to get their leg over. Something which, I doubt you have ever been able to do.
I'm still proud to be a Woke, Snowflake, Lefty Loser.
You can join Jeremy Corbyn in the gutter then.
I didn't even know Jeremy Corbyn was in a band. Are they any good?
Brilliant. Don't you remember the 100 000 people singing his name at Glastonbury a few years back. Should have gone on to do great things but sadly, his own band nobbled him resulting in the right mess: "Sunak and the kid killers",we have instead.
Hows that chip on your shoulder coming along?
Sigh... I am sure your Nanny has told you this, but chips either go in paper to be consumed on the move, or on a plate as dinner. They never go on your shoulder.
I know using a knife and fork is difficult but with practice, you'll get there young Master Loser.
Now now, no need to keep picking bones.
Also, you must have awful luck to be the dunce again.
Yes I can.
I was in mild shock at the size of the Gullible demographic
!
Something like 52% of voters, I believe
No.
Better than the boy band playing at the moment. I think they're called 'No Direction'
I've never been a fan either tbf
I feel Fremdscham.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't "Cycists dismount" signs not actually legal/a requirement - you need a TRO. So you could just ignore them?
If this was on a road where cars were being allowed through – as they often are in contraflows, for example - then that would be the case. In this instance in Bath as far as I can see the "Cyclist dismount" signs are there to tell cyclists that they ride on the pavement to get round the roadworks, so they are simply confirming the law against pavement cycling. I think the council would actually have to put an order in place stating that part of the pavement had become a temporary cycle lane and established markings and signage to that effect to make it legal/safe. Not saying they couldn't/shouldn't have done that, but as it stands cyclists can't legally ignore the dismount signs because they are telling them not to cycle illegally on the pavement.
I think the edge of the footway is presumably where the tactile paving slabs are. From the picture shown, it would appear there is space for cyclists to pass by the works without cycling onto the footway - if you are to the left of the sign I think you would be on the carriageway (even if it is a "carriageway" from which motor vehicles are currently prohibited). It's not clear what is out of shot to the left - it's possible that the hoarding does entirely block the carriageway just out of frame.
(location on street view: https://goo.gl/maps/giVJZJF6ZH37Scng8 )
I usually take the attitude that if a road sign isn't round, then it's advisory only.
Don't different rules apply for temporary road works as traffic is often affected and it doesn't sound very convenient that temporary lights etc. require a Traffic Regulation Order.
As a general summary:
Temporary traffic lights don't require a TRO; a Temprorary TRO would deal with significant restrictions such as a road closure to traffic for roadworks/construction. Other traffic lights for TM around roadworks where passage is limited would require a highways permit, except statutory undertakers have the right to implement in urgent cases, with the paperwork followed up.
"Cyclist dismount" shouldn't apply if motor traffic is still running (because cycle can pass just as motor traffic does; but it may apply if all vehicles are restricted. It doesn't have authority in its own right - it usually reflects the prevailing limit and the imposition of the temporary, all-vehicle restriction.
"Safety at Street Works and Road Works" covers the use of temporary "cyclists dismount" signage and is legally enforceable.
I presume that the "Safety at Street Works and Road Works" is legally enforceable for the people doing the street/road works rather than the "Cyclists Dismount" sign being legally enforceable.
Yes. Although, if the "Cyclists Dismount" sign is legally placed, I presume it carries legally enforceable status if the road has been lawfully closed to vehicles. Not because the sign itself has effect, but because the road closure does.
Well, that raises the question of whether cyclists can legally travel down a "closed road" if it isn't closed to pedestrians. I would presume you could claim that the signage was insufficient if it's not a round sign as usually used for mandatory instructions.
Probably, but I don't know if a road closure requires a round sign.
Red-bordered, round signs (usually) imply prohibition, but I'm not sure that's the only way a closure order can be lawfully effected.
To dissemble your question further, is a cyclist still a cyclist if they are wheeling their cycle unmounted? In which case, the answer would be yes (since the walking cyclist would not be prohibited by the sign). It would also be yes if the road is only closed to motor vehicles.
If you have to mount a footway (namely, a way comprised in a highway which also comprises a carriageway, being a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only) then the answer is 'no'. Does a road that is temporarily closed to motor traffic amount to a way that also comprises a carriageway? In other words, does "carriageway" imply not only the physical presence of the bit that you expect vehicles to be on, but also the cenceptual presence of the right to pass along it in a carriage?
If so, you might argue that the path you've just ridden onto is no longer a footway for the purposes of the various acts that depend upon the definition. But you might be barking up a tree. A relevant officer might just suggest you take it up with the contacts at the bottom of the form he gives you.
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