Fondriest reveal TFDisc disc-equipped road bike for 2015

crikey wrote:

See?

No it's not only you. I have thinking the same but as you know Shimano is perfect in every way and no cycling journlist can say otherwise.

However, as we all know Campagnolo is rubbish and never works or that is according to all the people who have never used it think.

Hey but wants to follow the crowd.

DeanF316 wrote:

No it's not only you. I have thinking the same but as you know Shimano is perfect in every way and no cycling journlist can say otherwise.

However, as we all know Campagnolo is rubbish and never works or that is according to all the people who have never used it think.

Hey but wants to follow the crowd.

Hold on, the standard 11speed non-hydraulic disc shimano levers are smaller than the older 10 speed, it's the reservoir that causes the issue for the hydraulic levers, but it has to go in the levers and they aren't that different in size to the older 10 speed shifters. A bit taller, but not much, and nothing like as daft as the SRAM hydraulic levers.

As for campag, in our experience in our workshop, I'm afraid to say that shimano definitely takes it, as campag stuff just seems less precise and more sensitive to cables with a little too much friction or chains that are just every so slightly worn or such like. Very nicely made though campag is, I wouldn't have it.

And finally, fondriest didn't have much choice with this bike, as if they wanted to fit mechanical groupset with hydraulic discs, shimano is currently only show in town.

joules1975 wrote:

As for campag, in our experience in our workshop, I'm afraid to say that shimano definitely takes it, as campag stuff just seems less precise and more sensitive to cables with a little too much friction or chains that are just every so slightly worn or such like. Very nicely made though campag is, I wouldn't have it.

Horseshit. If that's your experience then your 'workshop' isn't very good. It's incredibly precise, from Veloce all the way through to SR.

Shimano from Tiagra up, Sram from the bottom up, Campagnolo from the bottom up. It all works perfectly, just in different ways. As long as you set it up properly.

Chasseur Patate wrote:

joules1975 wrote:

As for campag, in our experience in our workshop, I'm afraid to say that shimano definitely takes it, as campag stuff just seems less precise and more sensitive to cables with a little too much friction or chains that are just every so slightly worn or such like. Very nicely made though campag is, I wouldn't have it.

Horseshit. If that's your experience then your 'workshop' isn't very good. It's incredibly precise, from Veloce all the way through to SR.

Shimano from Tiagra up, Sram from the bottom up, Campagnolo from the bottom up. It all works perfectly, just in different ways. As long as you set it up properly.

Wow, hit a nerve there with a couple of you guys. We have been open for four years and seen maybe a dozen campag equipped bikes in the workshop, all of which presented issues, so to be fair I was perhaps making a sweeping statement based on very small sample of fairly well used bikes, but the new custom bike we built up with veloce didn't seem quite right at the time either.

Oh, and suggesting our workshop is poor based on our experience with campag is a little out of order - yes maybe our experience with campag is poor, because we hardly ever see it, but that's like saying a local car garage is crap based on their lack of experience of alpha Romeos. Feel free to suggest we need to train up better with campag, but you have no clue what are capabilities are otherwise.

joules1975 wrote:

Chasseur Patate wrote:

joules1975 wrote:

As for campag, in our experience in our workshop, I'm afraid to say that shimano definitely takes it, as campag stuff just seems less precise and more sensitive to cables with a little too much friction or chains that are just every so slightly worn or such like. Very nicely made though campag is, I wouldn't have it.

Horseshit. If that's your experience then your 'workshop' isn't very good. It's incredibly precise, from Veloce all the way through to SR.

Shimano from Tiagra up, Sram from the bottom up, Campagnolo from the bottom up. It all works perfectly, just in different ways. As long as you set it up properly.

Wow, hit a nerve there with a couple of you guys. We have been open for four years and seen maybe a dozen campag equipped bikes in the workshop, all of which presented issues, so to be fair I was perhaps making a sweeping statement based on very small sample of fairly well used bikes, but the new custom bike we built up with veloce didn't seem quite right at the time either.

Oh, and suggesting our workshop is poor based on our experience with campag is a little out of order - yes maybe our experience with campag is poor, because we hardly ever see it, but that's like saying a local car garage is crap based on their lack of experience of alpha Romeos. Feel free to suggest we need to train up better with campag, but you have no clue what are capabilities are otherwise.

You haven't hit a nerve, just stitched yourself up. All groupsets work without issue if set up correctly.

I'm afraid that sweeping statement regarding Campag speaks volumes as to your capabilities.

joules1975 wrote:

Wow, hit a nerve there with a couple of you guys. We have been open for four years and seen maybe a dozen campag equipped bikes in the workshop, all of which presented issues, so to be fair I was perhaps making a sweeping statement based on very small sample of fairly well used bikes, but the new custom bike we built up with veloce didn't seem quite right at the time either.

Oh, and suggesting our workshop is poor based on our experience with campag is a little out of order - yes maybe our experience with campag is poor, because we hardly ever see it, but that's like saying a local car garage is crap based on their lack of experience of alpha Romeos. Feel free to suggest we need to train up better with campag, but you have no clue what are capabilities are otherwise.

What issues did you experience, if I may? What didn't seem "quite right" about the Veloce groupset? Admittedly, the shift feel isn't as smooth as say Shimano - is this what you're referring to? As I said before, there's no difference in adjusting one groupset compared to another brands groupset i.e you shift & adjust accordingly until all runs smoothly or replace the cables if worn. If you can't set up a Campag groupset, I'd perhaps question your ability to set up a groupset full stop!

Iamnot Wiggins wrote:

joules1975 wrote:

Wow, hit a nerve there with a couple of you guys. We have been open for four years and seen maybe a dozen campag equipped bikes in the workshop, all of which presented issues, so to be fair I was perhaps making a sweeping statement based on very small sample of fairly well used bikes, but the new custom bike we built up with veloce didn't seem quite right at the time either.

Oh, and suggesting our workshop is poor based on our experience with campag is a little out of order - yes maybe our experience with campag is poor, because we hardly ever see it, but that's like saying a local car garage is crap based on their lack of experience of alpha Romeos. Feel free to suggest we need to train up better with campag, but you have no clue what are capabilities are otherwise.

What issues did you experience, if I may? What didn't seem "quite right" about the Veloce groupset? Admittedly, the shift feel isn't as smooth as say Shimano - is this what you're referring to? As I said before, there's no difference in adjusting one groupset compared to another brands groupset i.e you shift & adjust accordingly until all runs smoothly or replace the cables if worn. If you can't set up a Campag groupset, I'd perhaps question your ability to set up a groupset full stop!

The speed of the shift seemed pretty slow, I.e the chain seems to take a moment to move across the sprocket. Each shift indexes nicely, just takes time to actually change the gear. We are talking less than a second, but it was noticeably slower than virtually all the SRAM and shimano group sets. Interestingly, the customer himself noticed the difference between his new veloce and much older campag on his other bike (can't recall group name but it wasn't any of the top end ones).

Re other poster, sorry but fail to see how making a sweeping statement based on the small experience we've had with a product that we rarely see compared with the alternatives has any indication of our ability with those alternatives. You clearly love campag in the same way that some apple 'super fans' won't hear a bad word about Apple, but unlike apple, campag is increasingly rare, and so smaller shops like us don't see the worth of getting specialist training on campag and so our only experience is when we very occasionally see it in the shop. Yes I'm not a fan because I don't like the feel, but I do appreciate the look and engineering, and I would have still expected it to work as well as shimano 105 or better, but the ones we saw indexed fine but the indexing/movement of chain across block was a little sluggish.

It's just come to me that we haven't had specialist training on SRAM either, and have seen their group sets even less than campag, yet we set them up perfectly in a matter of minutes with no issues. So, given that and the fact we have done hundreds of shimano groupsets, again usually in a matter of minutes with perfect fast shifting every time, either we are missing something or campag just isn't quite as crisp.

joules1975 wrote:

Re other poster, sorry but fail to see how making a sweeping statement based on the small experience we've had with a product that we rarely see compared with the alternatives has any indication of our ability with those alternatives. You clearly love campag in the same way that some apple 'super fans' won't hear a bad word about Apple, but unlike apple, campag is increasingly rare, and so smaller shops like us don't see the worth of getting specialist training on campag and so our only experience is when we very occasionally see it in the shop. Yes I'm not a fan because I don't like the feel, but I do appreciate the look and engineering, and I would have still expected it to work as well as shimano 105 or better, but the ones we saw indexed fine but the indexing/movement of chain across block was a little sluggish.

It's just come to me that we haven't had specialist training on SRAM either, and have seen their group sets even less than campag, yet we set them up perfectly in a matter of minutes with no issues. So, given that and the fact we have done hundreds of shimano groupsets, again usually in a matter of minutes with perfect fast shifting every time, either we are missing something or campag just isn't quite as crisp.

You answered your own question. You're missing something.....

Veloce noticeably slower than 105? Honestly, you and whoever set it up in the first place are doing something wrong.

joules1975 wrote:

As for campag, in our experience in our workshop, I'm afraid to say that shimano definitely takes it, as campag stuff just seems less precise and more sensitive to cables with a little too much friction or chains that are just every so slightly worn or such like. Very nicely made though campag is, I wouldn't have it.

I did genuinely laugh out loud at this! Your mechanics must be fresh out of school or you teach them incorrectly.

Having set up & maintained Shimano, Sram & Campag bikes on a professional basis, no one gruppo is easier to set up & maintain than the other and they're all very much identical apart from the brand name on them. Cable tension will affect ALL groupsets (apart from di2 or similar) as will a worn chain.

Employ more experience instead of cheap labour!

joules1975 wrote:

As for campag, in our experience in our workshop, I'm afraid to say that shimano definitely takes it, as campag stuff just seems less precise and more sensitive to cables with a little too much friction or chains that are just every so slightly worn or such like. Very nicely made though campag is, I wouldn't have it.

I did genuinely laugh out loud at this! Your mechanics must be fresh out of school or you teach them incorrectly.

Having set up & maintained Shimano, Sram & Campag bikes on a professional basis, no one gruppo is easier to set up & maintain than the other and they're all very much identical apart from the brand name on them. Cable tension will affect ALL groupsets (apart from di2 or similar) as will a worn chain.

Employ more experience instead of cheap labour!

joules1975 wrote:

And finally, fondriest didn't have much choice with this bike, as if they wanted to fit mechanical groupset with hydraulic discs, shimano is currently only show in town.

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/family/sram-red

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/family/sram-force

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/family/sram-rival