‘Public mood is changing’ says councillor as York unveils plans to ban private cars from city centre

Bobbinogs wrote:

Personally, I am always disappointed when car exclusion schemes seem to overlook one of the most ungreen (?) polluters, namely taxis. For every car journey, they usually make two (there and back). It will be interesting to see if the York councillors successfully stick to a green agenda or water it down due to pressure and back pocket wads.

Clamping down on taxis would unduly affect the disabled.

vonhelmet wrote:

Clamping down on taxis would unduly affect the disabled.

Is that really true?

Are all disabled people unable to board a bus?

And what about everyone else's lungs?

Perhaps it would be better to see this as an opportunity for PedalMe and other non-polluting operators to provide an alternative transport method in such locations.

Simon E wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

Clamping down on taxis would unduly affect the disabled.

Is that really true?

Are all disabled people unable to board a bus?

And what about everyone else's lungs?

Perhaps it would be better to see this as an opportunity for PedalMe and other non-polluting operators to provide an alternative transport method in such locations.

It's an issue that could do with more information.  A significant proportion disabled people could make use of decent bike lanes, for one thing, if they use wheelchairs, electric or otherwise.  Could there be exemptions for taxis exclusively for the disabled, or would that be economically non-viable if there are no other fares allowed?

mrmo wrote:

compare with my local council deciding to reopen the town centre to cars despite the town being one of the most polluted,for its size, in the UK.

which council is that? and what town?

Rick_Rude wrote:

Nobody in their right mind bothers with driving into York anyway. Park and Rides cover all major directions.  A couple of times for hospital appointments I've gone from work to park and ride with the bike on the back and then cycled in from there. If you have to get somewhere like around 9 in the morning the bike is only sensible choice. 

And yet every single day in pretty much every urban area, there are queues and queues of people in cars doing exactly that. And you can bet that almost all of them are thinking "if only they'd remove that bus lane/that cycle lane..." and no doubt looking around at everyone else in their cars and thinking "I wish all these other idiots would get off the roads; MY journey is essential, I bet their journey isn't".

Ask someone if their car journey is essential and they'll tell you that it is. Guaranteed. Everyone NEEDS a car and they'll come up with all sorts of reasons to justify it, no matter how tenuous. If they get stuck in gridlocked traffic and their journey takes 2hrs instead of 20 minutes, they won't stop to think how unbeliveably stupid they are for not using alternative transport, they'll just moan on social media and to the papers/council about how shit everything is.

Rick_Rude wrote:

Nobody in their right mind bothers with driving into York anyway. Park and Rides cover all major directions.  A couple of times for hospital appointments I've gone from work to park and ride with the bike on the back and then cycled in from there. If you have to get somewhere like around 9 in the morning the bike is only sensible choice. 

well unless you are visiting, and I dont mean just day trippers, it is a fairly popular place for tourists to stay, also people do travel for work to conferences or training courses to places that arent on their doorstep. So I dont think its practical to ban all private vehicles from a city centre even if its an admirable aim but Id be interested to know why theyve discounted congesting charging as a first step.

Awavey wrote:

well unless you are visiting, and I dont mean just day trippers, it is a fairly popular place for tourists to stay, also people do travel for work to conferences or training courses to places that arent on their doorstep. So I dont think its practical to ban all private vehicles from a city centre even if its an admirable aim but Id be interested to know why theyve discounted congesting charging as a first step.

It's easy for a car-centric person to think first of the potential downsides of removing cars instead of the possibilities.

Most places that ban cars from the town or city centre see increased footfall, increased revenue and a far more pleasant environment for people to spend time, socialise and actually enjoy the experience.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191011-what-happens-when-a-city-ban...

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/sep/18/paradise-life-spanish-cit...

https://www.citylab.com/perspective/2019/12/car-free-streets-plans-sf-ma...

Simon E wrote:

Awavey wrote:

well unless you are visiting, and I dont mean just day trippers, it is a fairly popular place for tourists to stay, also people do travel for work to conferences or training courses to places that arent on their doorstep. So I dont think its practical to ban all private vehicles from a city centre even if its an admirable aim but Id be interested to know why theyve discounted congesting charging as a first step.

It's easy for a car-centric person to think first of the potential downsides of removing cars instead of the possibilities.

Most places that ban cars from the town or city centre see increased footfall, increased revenue and a far more pleasant environment for people to spend time, socialise and actually enjoy the experience.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191011-what-happens-when-a-city-ban...

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/sep/18/paradise-life-spanish-cit...

and those are perfectly acceptable outcomes,I dont consider myself car centric as Ive ridden more miles by bike over the past two years than driven in the same time, and Im not against steps being taken to reduce private car use in our towns and cities.

but if you are going to ban cars from a city centre,youve got to provide decent alternate solutions for people to use to get around, in that Pontevedra example they built 1600 free car park spaces on the outskirts and beefed up the public transport,  and that alternate solution is for residents and visitors alike whose needs might not be totally aligned.

Awavey wrote:

if you are going to ban cars from a city centre,youve got to provide decent alternate solutions for people to use to get around, in that Pontevedra example they built 1600 free car park spaces on the outskirts and beefed up the public transport,  and that alternate solution is for residents and visitors alike whose needs might not be totally aligned.

Did you actually read the article?

"This is about reducing and removing non-essential car journeys across the whole city, while improving the range and attractiveness of alternative travel options" ...

"Fewer cars on York’s roads would enable faster, more reliable public transport from the suburbs and villages into the city centre." ... "

We need to understand the reasons for journeys into, within and around the city, to what extent they are classed as essential and where are the gaps we need to fill to make this a reality."

Awavey wrote:

[

well unless you are visiting, and I dont mean just day trippers, it is a fairly popular place for tourists to stay, also people do travel for work to conferences or training courses to places that arent on their doorstep. So I dont think its practical to ban all private vehicles from a city centre even if its an admirable aim but Id be interested to know why theyve discounted congesting charging as a first step.

Because congestion charging doesn't adequately reduce pollution, I would imagine.

It's almost as if there should be another method for getting tourists and business folk to  city centres apart from cars....

I'm just back from Austria for a week with the family. We travelled 60km odd from Innsbruck airport to Zell am Ziller, a small town where we were staying.  

1. Caught bus at airport to Train station - 20mins 

 2. train with one change - 1h10mins 

3. walk to accommodation - 10mins

Cost €140 return for a family of 4. 

The drive would have been about an hour, but factor in hiring and collecting a car and finding somewhere to dump it in the town for a week, public transport was still the sensible way forward.

Could have got a taxi I suppose - wonder what the cost would have been...

We've also been to York as tourists via public transport, and didn't miss the car - it's a pretty tiny city FFS, you can walk right around it in a couple of hours.

A few weeks ago I was in Manchester on business for a week. Guess what, didn't need a car as the public transport links are good.

This myth that cars and taxis are integral to a public transport system is one that really needs exploding. Exceptions can easily be made for disabled or other special needs, but apart from unusual circumstances the able-bodied really do not need cars in city centres.

Oh I was forgetting that the fact that other cities across the world are finding this out doesn't apply in UK - we are of course exceptional...