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Justice (Lonpicman, Wikimedia Commons)Motorist clocked at 82mph in 30mph zone; judge queries why he was only charged with speeding
A judge who banned a man for driving for two years after he was found driving at 82 miles per hour (mph) on a road with a speed limit of 30mph told him that sentencing guidelines did not cover cases in which a vehicle was driven so far above the speed limit. In remarks reminiscent of some of the issues hiighlighted by CTC's recently launched Road Justice campaign, she also queried why he had been charged with speeding instead of a more serious offence.
Telegraph.co.uk reports that district judge Miriam Shelvey, sitting at Liverpool Magistrates’ Court, told the motorist, 39-year-old Piotr Dobrzycki: "I have been sitting in the magistrates court regularly since 1999, and I have never seen a defendant charged with doing 82 miles per hour in a 30 zone, and it is shocking."
Dobrzycki’s speed had been registered by a mobile speed detection van on 12 June 2012 as he drove his Audi S3 Quattro along Lower House Lane in the Liverpool suburb of West Derby.
The self-employed panel beater, a Polish national and representing himself through an interpreter, told the judge he had been struggling to cope with marital problems.
"I had personal issues with my estranged wife in Poland,” he explained. "She was not allowing me to contact my children, and I just got out of control with my emotions and they interfered with my driving."
After he was banned for driving for two years, Dobrzycki, who already had nine points on his driving licence, asked: “Can I ride a motorbike?”
Fining him £200 plus £35 costs and a victim surcharge of £15, Judge Shelvey said: "There are guidelines that the courts have in relation to speed, and when I retired to consider the issue I looked at those guidelines.
"They stopped at 60.
“I don't suppose it was contemplated by those who drafted them that a magistrates court would see a charge of speeding, as opposed to a more serious charge, at that speed.
“But the charge you face is a matter for the prosecution, not the judge."
Her apparent criticism of the level of offence with which Dobrzycki was charged echo one of the central themes of national cyclists’ organisation CTC’s Road Justice campaign, launched in June, with the charity pressing for a stricter approach to the investigation, prosecution and sentencing of cases related to bad driving.
Launching the campaign, CTC said: “Road casualties can and should be prevented, yet the justice system is failing to ensure safety on our roads by not taking road crime seriously.
“The police and coroners do not investigate road collisions thoroughly enough; the prosecution services make weak charging and prosecution decisions, and the courts issue sentences that do not adequately reflect the severity of crimes committed by bad drivers."
According to the Direct.gov website, the typical stopping distance at 30mph is 23 metres – 9 metres of that is described as ‘thinking distance,’ the remainder as ‘braking distance.’
Applying the same formula to a speed of 80mph, the distance is 120 metres – identical to the maximum permitted length of a football pitch – with 24 metres being thinking distance, plus 96 metres of braking distance.
Telegraph.co.uk notes that the previous highest recorded speed in a 30mph zone for which a prosecution was successfully brought was 68mph.
That related to an incident in March 2011 in which a van being driven by a British Transport Police officer who was responding to an emergency left the ground as it went over a humpback bridge in Hackney, hitting cyclist Joseph Belmonte, who spent nine days in an induced coma afterwards.
The driver, Police Constable David Lynch, was convicted of dangerous driving and received an eight-month suspended prison sentence. He was also told to undertake 240 hours of community service, ordered to pay £1,000 costs, and banned from driving for 15 months.
The circumstances of the cases differ, not least because of the personal injury element in the earlier one, and it may be that there were factors behind the Crown Prosecution Service’s decision to charge Dobrzycki with speeding and not careless or dangerous driving.
However, the issue does underscore concerns raised by campaigners such as CTC regarding inconsistency in charging, prosecution and sentencing in driving-related cases.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
Latest Comments
- don simon fbpe 53 sec ago
Auto Sales guy has everything covered and legal from his standpoint. Where's the story? I'm sure he'll take it on the chin if it all goes tits up too.
- MattKelland 4 min 41 sec ago
Thanks! For some reason it's not showing up here: https://road.cc/show/tags/nmotd/145572
- brooksby 5 min 16 sec ago
But it's OK because our taxes are being used to subsidise those poor hard-done-by motorists by freezing fuel duty
- Surreyrider 1 sec ago
Yeah, I saw the Standard headline and thought 1 how many drivers have jumped red lights and been fined (after all they're the ones risking the most...
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Dawn raid by GSOC on her home already being setup, no doubt.
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I have the same issue and recently switched to hot waxing the chain and keeping the drive train free from conventional grease. On dry days a simple...
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Highway Code rule 237 If you are dazzled by bright sunlight, slow down and if necessary, stop.
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Im betting these come out of the same factory as the SG and the Grip grab gloves. Identical apart from the Silicon overlay....
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That "old lane" as you call it, is 1) very much open, some misguided cyclists still use it. I used it once, vowed never to again and I block ride...
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40 comments
[[[[ Sorry---it didn't appear to work 1st time. Buffered and buffered and buffered...must be marital probs.
P.R.
@Chadders, they have trouble tracing insurance/driver details for isle of man - there's no hope for european ones!
Mattrb78 - it took me 4 attempts to pass, I've been driving 5 years now and never had any accidents and I consider myself to be a good driver. personally I think you should take 2 tests as it is sometimes luck of the draw. 2 tests with a score system that then gets avg'd
I'm considering making that video if I'm honest - although it sounds quite difficult to film... Definitely make a good road safety/considerate driving awareness video.
Its surprising the guy was in a car on uk plates.
Here in north wales the place is full of Eastern Europeans still driving cars on their national plates.
Can the police in this country trace drivers in cars on foreign plates or check the license or insurance status of these drivers in the event of an accident or crime.
Maybe its time for a European registration system with a centralised data base.
As burtthebike says:
Given that government seems to be by the posh and for the posh these days, what we need to do is get seriously posh people on bikes. That way the House and the Lords might actually take cycling seriously. Surely if manufacturers can introduce blinged up bikes that will appeal to the rich, make it 'the thing, dahling', then the laws will follow?
Wow...how does a panel beater afford an Audi like that?
And why wasn't he charged with something more serious? Because the CPS are useless.
An Audi S3 with 225bhp will set you back £2.5k according to the sum I raised when I sold mine! That's how.
Most fun I've had with my clothes on but the fuel bills if the loud pedal was used with heavy feet was ruinous. Almost as safe as a motorbike for overtaking though the dog looked like he needed a 4 point harness when he travelled in the back. In town was not the place to give it the beans though and I never got to take it on a track day to see what she would do.
With most things like it it's not the car that's the problem it's the nut between the seat and wheel.
Yet more proof of the following:-
1. British justice no longer works
2. Driving licensing rules and regulations need to change
3. At the very least all drivers should be forced to retake the driving test every 5 years and if you take more than two attempts to pass then they have to wait 12 months before attempting again
4. Foreign drivers should not be allowed to drive on British roads and should have to take a British driving test and be able to speak and read basic English
4. I'm not sure that you've thought this one through. Would you be able to fulfil the same criteria driving abroad? Or does your natural British superiority enshrine a right to drive wherever you like?
On the basis that such a rule would probably be applied reciprocally to us, that would pretty much ban the vast majority of of Brits from driving on holiday
Ja, und das ist gut.
Every year I go cycle touring in France, I notice that the only cars not following the French highway code with regards to overtaking cyclists (1 metre in built areas, 1.5 metres on D roads) are GB registered. I've reached the point of preemptying the fact that they are British before they've finished overtaking me, sorry, I meant pushing me off the road.
"Every year I go cycle touring in France, I notice that the only cars not following the French highway code with regards to overtaking cyclists (1 metre in built areas, 1.5 metres on D roads) are GB registered"
I can confirm that completely. On my trip from the South to the North of France, dangerous overtaking increased in inverse proportion to distance from the ferry ports, and they always had GB plates.
The road laws in this country were set 80 years ago by the car driving elite, and it's taking too long to change them, not least because now every prole and their sons/daughters have one. Revolution brothers!
Or [sark on] we could all write to our MPs [sark off].
I'll bet he's not the only one to get caught speeding along here... http://goo.gl/maps/fb1Jx Remember folks, there's no room in our cities for Dutch-style quality cycle infrastructure.
In Switzerland, fines for speeding are based on the amount the limit was exceeded and the income of the driver - the record speeding fine is $290,000
I like that idea. I also think that there should be a link between the DVLA and buying a car. I know that a car has to be registered to a person, but both forecourts and individual should have to receive a green light to sign a car over to a registered legal driver, and if they are not no dice.
It seems too easy for banned drivers to get their hands on a car. The problem with insurance costs is that as they rise it only prompts idiots to drive uninsured. Anyway I hope we never see this guy behind the wheel of a car again.
i actually count this as progress,
The judge actually putting on record that the CPS are crap and don't know what they are doing!
Maybe there is hope and we MIGHT see the CPS going for the higher level convictions.
Mart - Ive often noticed the difference avg speed checks make on peoples speed, perhaps certain stretches of road should have some akin to that? Or black boxes, they can monitor my driving characteristics if they like.
StephenHerring - Indeed they should - You need the relevant tests for lorries it shouldn't be any different for 4x4s (and vans) - especially considering the lack of control some owners quite obviously have.
Arctic Lorries,
BMW's
Vans,
4x4s
Old people
are in my opinion the most likely to one day kill me.
didn't attach my quote to earlier comment make my statement irrelevant!!
Audi. Nuff said.
Farrell you made my day- I'm gonna set up a 'lambo front end' in the back garden using wood and if I can make it over I'm totally doing this next time. I can picture a fry and laurie sketch of some manner...
It just baffles me, I mean if you need a 4x4 you need one, just like you need tractor, combine harvester, 2 dogs that chase sheep into orderly formations. If its a case of extra legroom for the 2 brats that you pick up RIGHT OUTSIDE the school as you can't be arsed to walk a couple hundred meters then seriously get a grip. It makes me laugh when they play slip and slide on the snow because Land Rovers are now equipped with 'sport' tyres. Again, the ol' fixed gear takes care of an inch or two of snow - legs win again.
The only way to stop speeding is to GPS restrict cars (Automation would be better), Big Brother style.
Why do we allow cars on our roads that are capable of >100 mph. I understand that you may want to accelerate past a slow moving vehicle, but still, some of these cars should be compulsory restricted to 100 max.
This guy will not have learned a lesson from this. he will be driving another car next month.
I've often thought that 4x4s should require additional testing/different license category. They have different handling characteristics, reduced visibility when parking etc. For people who actually needed them then this shouldn't be an issue. For people who just want one, well it might put them off.
Applying that to vehicles above a certain power/weight ratio too might be an idea.
I've often thought that the test should consist of being smacked in the forehead with a hammer whilst repeatedly being asked:
Are you sure you really need a 4x4?
*whack*
Are you sure?
*whack*
Are you sure?
*whack*
Are you sure?
*whack*"
(Preferably in the manner of Chris Morris as Denholm Reynholm with the stress test)
Why would this not be classed as 'dangerous driving'? The judge is right, the prosecution should have gone for a more serious charge.
Maybe a fine of £100 for every mile per hour over the speed limit?
Cars like that should be taxed off the roads (I'm talking a new 'ostentatious prick' tax not current emissions tax)- they simply aren't needed. The speed limit is 30mph, whats the need to have a sports car/4x4 (4x4s are allowed if your a) a farmer or b) a farmer) etc when your driving round bloody suburbia? I drive a corsa, its practical and suitable.
There's a guy who lives in my suburban area with a bloody lambroghini, we take an identical route home and every day he slams down the accelerator speeds to the lights that are on red, revs his engine while waiting for them to change and speeds off to the next red lights. Over a 5 mile route we arrive at a turn off usually at the same time or me ahead of him. So congrats Mr. Lambo prick, your car is slower than me on a old fuckin' hybrid that weighs 15kg. 300bhp V my legs. my legs win.
Rant over. Felt good to get that one out my system.
The front end of Lamborghinis is nice and low, have you considered practicing your Sagan-Parking next time he's at the lights?
Well the thing is that the level of fines don't really deter a lot of speeding because actually there is very little chance of being caught for it. OK this is an outrageous case but I (and I bet every one else that drives) can tell you that there is very little respect for the speed limits posted.
If you don't believe me then when you next drive keep exactly to the speed limit and see how long you travel before being hooted, tailgaited, flashed and then probably overtaken by the car behind.
Now I bet if you asked that driver what was going on they wouldn't say that they wanted to speed along, they would say that you were dawdling and going slow.
Go on try it.
Never mind increasing the fines or the points. There needs to be much more of a connection between the act of speeding and the likelihood of being caught. ie drivers didn't think they were just unlucky to get caught but alternatively thought reckoned that they were lucky if they actually got away with it.
That would make a good video showing that for any car thet are often slower than a bike in urban areas.
Umm, power restrictions? There are probably less than 10 cars on the market that couldn't do 82 mph.
Now, you may need a run up in some of them............
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