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Modern cars are rubbish (for cyclists and pedestrians)

by kil0ran
Mon, Dec 17, 2018 09:42
68

Had the pleasure of driving a Merc C-Class over the weekend. I say drive but it was little more than turn the wheel every once in a while for 500 miles. So many buttons, so much automation, so much to distract you.

The only redeeming feature was that the ride was fantastic and the seats extremely comfortable.

Visibility was atrocious - privacy glass for the rear windows and windscreen, and huge A & B pillars. B pillar and roof line in particular was so badly-placed relative to the driver that it was almost impossible to see clearly when turning right from a side road. It was also possible to set the driving position so low that I could barely see above the belt-line, and I'm almost 6 foot. Made it tricky to judge gaps and passing distances relative to parked cars. I've also worked out why you see cars with gouges in rear doors - reversing cameras only deal with the back of the car, not the sides.

From a safety perspective I liked using the speed limiter (important, because it was so quiet you had very little idea of how fast you were wafting along) but I'd imagine it just encourages drivers to drive at the posted limit all the time, rather than considering road conditions. No other active/passive safety features on this particular car because it was a hire car.

It seems that manufacturers are effectively selling an interior/lifestyle choice rather than a driving tool these days, the car was completely uninvolving to drive, even on Sport+ mode (firmer suspension plus comedy throttle blips as you roll up to stop lines FFS)

On the plus side I now have absolutely no desire to own such a technological marvel.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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68 comments

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Stef Marazzi | 5 years ago
2 likes

I went to a presentation night at the University of the West of England. They've been involved with lots of robotics and automation. There was a guy doing a presentation on a lot of the challenges faced by driverless cars.

One of the ones he said was a major problem, with driverless cars, is when the car asks the driver to take back control as it cannot cope with a situation up ahead.

He said that they've found out that people are completely unprepared to take back control of the car.

I guess its a bit like when you've been driving for hours on a motorway, and then stop to take over from your partner. It takes you a while to kind of flip your brain back into driving mode.

Yet with autonomous cars, the car might be asking you to take back control within a second, and they've found out people are completely unprepared for it, when the car has been driving for a couple of hours.

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hawkinspeter replied to Stef Marazzi | 5 years ago
8 likes

cyclesteffer wrote:

I went to a presentation night at the University of the West of England. They've been involved with lots of robotics and automation. There was a guy doing a presentation on a lot of the challenges faced by driverless cars.

One of the ones he said was a major problem, with driverless cars, is when the car asks the driver to take back control as it cannot cope with a situation up ahead.

He said that they've found out that people are completely unprepared to take back control of the car.

I guess its a bit like when you've been driving for hours on a motorway, and then stop to take over from your partner. It takes you a while to kind of flip your brain back into driving mode.

Yet with autonomous cars, the car might be asking you to take back control within a second, and they've found out people are completely unprepared for it, when the car has been driving for a couple of hours.

Autonomous cars that rely on having a driver are a complete waste of time and probably more dangerous than just letting drivers drive. At least if you're actively driving there's a chance that you'll be paying attention, but to expect a non-driver to suddenly become alert and responsive to the situation is just laughable.

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davel replied to hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
2 likes

HawkinsPeter wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

I went to a presentation night at the University of the West of England. They've been involved with lots of robotics and automation. There was a guy doing a presentation on a lot of the challenges faced by driverless cars.

One of the ones he said was a major problem, with driverless cars, is when the car asks the driver to take back control as it cannot cope with a situation up ahead.

He said that they've found out that people are completely unprepared to take back control of the car.

I guess its a bit like when you've been driving for hours on a motorway, and then stop to take over from your partner. It takes you a while to kind of flip your brain back into driving mode.

Yet with autonomous cars, the car might be asking you to take back control within a second, and they've found out people are completely unprepared for it, when the car has been driving for a couple of hours.

Autonomous cars that rely on having a driver are a complete waste of time and probably more dangerous than just letting drivers drive. At least if you're actively driving there's a chance that you'll be paying attention, but to expect a non-driver to suddenly become alert and responsive to the situation is just laughable.

Absolutely - the uber case in Arizona earlier this year. Car didn't detect (or avoid) the person wheeling a bike across the road, and the human 'driver' shat themselves.

https://road.cc/content/news/253393-uber-warned-over-safety-issues-its-self-driving-cars-days-cyclist-killed 

 

Avatar
kil0ran replied to Stef Marazzi | 5 years ago
1 like

cyclesteffer wrote:

He said that they've found out that people are completely unprepared to take back control of the car.

Two instances of that in driving the Merc for me

First - forgetting it was an auto and trying to use the brake as a clutch (fortunately nothing behind me). I'd been wafting along for 20 minutes on cruise control with both feet off the pedals.

Second - having the limiter on and trying to overtake a driver doing 45mph on a national speed limit single carriageway. Popped out, floored it, went up to 50mph and no more. Cue frantic scrambling to disengage the limiter as traffic approached.

(Actually the Merc has a limit disabler built into the throttle pedal - double tap from your right foot and it switches off and gives you full bananas and a decent shove in the back)

Granted the first one you can end up doing in any automatic if you're used to driving manuals but the isolation from the driving experience undoubtedly contributed to it.

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matthewn5 replied to Stef Marazzi | 5 years ago
2 likes

cyclesteffer wrote:

I went to a presentation night at the University of the West of England. They've been involved with lots of robotics and automation. There was a guy doing a presentation on a lot of the challenges faced by driverless cars.

One of the ones he said was a major problem, with driverless cars, is when the car asks the driver to take back control as it cannot cope with a situation up ahead.

He said that they've found out that people are completely unprepared to take back control of the car.

I guess its a bit like when you've been driving for hours on a motorway, and then stop to take over from your partner. It takes you a while to kind of flip your brain back into driving mode.

Yet with autonomous cars, the car might be asking you to take back control within a second, and they've found out people are completely unprepared for it, when the car has been driving for a couple of hours.

Exactly what happened to Air France flight 447. The pitot tubes froze up, the plane dropped out of autopilot and handed back control to the pilots, the young pilot flying panicked and stalled the plane, everyone died.

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srchar replied to matthewn5 | 5 years ago
3 likes

matthewn5 wrote:

Exactly what happened to Air France flight 447. The pitot tubes froze up, the plane dropped out of autopilot and handed back control to the pilots, the young pilot flying panicked and stalled the plane, everyone died.

...and that was with two reasonably highly-trained professionals (I say reasonably because they weren't trained in recovering from abnormal attitude, sadly).  In their defence, one of them was making a control input that would have recovered the plane, while the other did the opposite, which Airbus' flight control system dealt with (and still deals with) by averaging those inputs.  It's a bit like an automated car reacting to an impending crash by handing back control to both front seat occupants, each with a steering wheel, one of whom steers left, the other right, with the car taking the average and ploughing straight ahead into the hazard.

I'm in two minds about semi-autonomous vehicles. The type of drivers who will "stick it on auto" and glue their eyes to their phone are the same types who currently glue their eyes to their phone anyway.  It's probably an improvement for the car to control itself most of the time, occasionally handing back control to an unprepared and inattentive driver, than it is for an inattentive driver to control the car full-time.

Avatar
kil0ran replied to matthewn5 | 5 years ago
2 likes

matthewn5 wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

He said that they've found out that people are completely unprepared to take back control of the car.

Exactly what happened to Air France flight 447. The pitot tubes froze up, the plane dropped out of autopilot and handed back control to the pilots, the young pilot flying panicked and stalled the plane, everyone died.

 

And the recent LionAir crash in Indonesia. Faulty sensor made the plane think it was stalling and so automatically forced the nose down. Pilots hadn't been briefed/had forgotten how to recover from it (there'd been a recent procedure/software change) and fought the plane for control.

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davel | 5 years ago
7 likes

This is why I stopped watching Top Gear years ago.

Clarkson (before he completely outed himself as the caricature twat that the world sees now) would witter on about all the technology, and berate cars that didn't have all this standard supercar gadgetry. So it's a car gadget programme being presented by someone who doesn't understand gadgets?

Then he'd get in a Ford GT that had none of it* and wet his grandad jeans about how it was proper driving. So it's a proper driving programme that spends too long on gadgets? Or a car-based light entertainment programme that stopped being funny when the presenters became the joke?

Driving round France early this summer, I did about 150 miles with uninterrupted cruise control set at the speed limit. I nearly fell asleep and then bricked it when I had to find my pedals again to brake because a lorry was overtaking another lorry on a two-laner - you know, standard driving conditions. Family in the car, too close for comfort, cruise control off for the rest of the fortnight. Forgetting you're driving isn't a great way to drive.

 

*His own GT went back as soon as he got it - he had the same success with the alarm and immobiliser as I'd expect my non-driving mum to have.

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