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TECH NEWS
Pinarello unveils Dogma F8 Disc
Italian bicycle manufacturer Pinarello has unveiled the new Dogma F8 Disc. Pinarello is no stranger to disc-equipped road bikes, it first launched the Dogma 65.1 Hydro and DogmaK Hydro disc road bikes two years ago, road.cc even had a ride on one.
The new Dogma F8 Disc though is based on the same Dogma F8 that Team Sky has been racing for the past two years, since its launch last summer, Pinarello’s first aerodynamic road bike. The new Dogma F8 Disc is said to retain the “main characteristics” of the regular Dogma F8, in terms of the geometry, the frame material, stiffness and aerodynamics.
The frame uses Shimano’s new Flat Mount brake caliper system, with adapters to make it compatible with other brake systems. Pinarello hasn’t issued many details about its new bike in its press release, but we’re pushing them for more details. We expect the frame to carry a slight weight penalty over the regular Dogma F8, but how much we don’t know.
Pinarello also appears to have stuck with conventional quick release axles rather than adopting the thru-axles that a handful of other bike brands have done.
- Disc brakes to appear in pro peloton this year
The UCI recently relaxed its rules on disc road bikes in the professional peloton so it’s no surprise we’re starting to see race-ready road bikes equipped with disc brakes starting to appear. Most disc-equipped road bikes so far have been based on endurance/sportive bikes, as the brakes suit the intended use of those bikes, and the longer chainstays get around chainline issues with the wider rear axle. Will Team Sky be one of the early adopters?
More on this new bike soon... www.pinarello.com
David worked on the road.cc tech team from 2012-2020. Previously he was editor of Bikemagic.com and before that staff writer at RCUK. He's a seasoned cyclist of all disciplines, from road to mountain biking, touring to cyclo-cross, he only wishes he had time to ride them all. He's mildly competitive, though he'll never admit it, and is a frequent road racer but is too lazy to do really well. He currently resides in the Cotswolds, and you can now find him over on his own YouTube channel David Arthur - Just Ride Bikes.
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34 comments
Oh excellent, is it time for yet another thread of the same old rubbish repeated verbatim?!
Specialized tested their disc and rim-braked Tarmac road bikes in the wind tunnel and reckoned that at the most, it would be 8 seconds slower over a 40km TT on the disc bike.
That's 8 seconds when you're doing 40kph. Since most people won't ever be doing that, areo becomes less of an issue at lower speed (drag being proportional to speed).
So the aero argument is largely rubbish, certainly for the average club/Sportive rider.
And when I was descending the wet roads of Hardknott and Wrynose in the Fred Whitton a couple of weeks ago, I certainly wasn't wishing I was more aero. I was bloody glad of the disc brakes though!
@Ginsterdrz
"Frame also need strengthening in critical areas adding weight."
Not true when the manufacturer designs a "disc specific" frameset from the ground up, rather than tacking on a disc brake mount and thickening the stays which will add weight.
If you look at Giant's 2015 Defy Advanced SL (disc) its the lightest road frame they have ever made, its lighter than their TCR Advanced SL (caliper) road racing frame.
I'm riding the 2015 Defy Advanced Pro (disc), and even the frame on this £2599 bike comes in sub 1kg, when my previous caliper brake frame, a Specialized Tarmac Elite SL4 was well over 1200 grammes in the same size
There is nothing flawed about my bike for fast road use, its a brilliant bike with crisp response under power and great handing.
The frame also accomodates 28c tires, which if you've kept up to the date with the latest research, lower rolling resistance on our less than perfect UK roads.
I'm running Conti GP4000 II in 700 x 28c which has been a welcome surprise in terms of how quick such a big tire can be, and I can't say I've noticed any unwelcome aero effects.
The combination of disc brakes and big grippy tires let me go faster with more control in all weathers, what's not to like?
Here's the rub: WEIGHT and AERODYNAMICS
Disc wheels have to be built stronger i.e. heavier (Zipp 202=1530g+disc)
Then add a brake disc-added weight AND I've read a doubling of aero drag on your front and back wheels.
Frames also need strengthening in critical areas adding weight.
Love the idea but they're flawed for fast road use.
Sorry but there are wheels out there that are lighter than their rim brake versions
For example the ENVE SES 3.4 Disc Clincher wheelset is 20 grams lighter than the rim brake version
Plus road bike disc brakes are in their early years and most manufactures haven't fully jumped in yet and some still use a brake track rim on a disc hub
Within a year or two i expect to see more and more fully dedicated disc brake wheelsets come to market, the competition between manufacturers will push them to be made lighter/stronger etc...
If there are aero disadvantages with discs then ill bet that manufactures will tackle that problem next
As said before its early days and things will only get better/more improved as time goes on
Another example of someone not completely thinking things through, and using incorrect info to backup their belief.
1. For discs frames must be strengthened where the caliper is, but can be significantly lightened where the rim brake would have been (exhibit a. Giant defy disc - lightest frame they have ever produced).
2. Disc Wheels are generally slightly heavier at the moment because no-one has yet developed a disc only road rim, which should be lighter and more aero do to no longer needing the brake track (evidence? Mtb wheels which like for like are as light or lighter than their rim brake like-for-like equivilant). This means the wheel weight is being moved to the centre, which will mean bikes handle, climb and accelerate better.
3. Disc brakes bikes are very slightly less aero, but you'll make up the difference in the braking zone (check out Specialized wind tunnel tests!)
Little tip. Find a decent disc equipped bike, like a giant defy and go and test ride it, then make up your mind.
You want people to base their internet opinions on facts and experience???
You crazy bastard...
2 reasons why discs are definitely better...
1. In the wet - although I don't go out looking for rain, if it does catch me out and I'm doing some descending, there's no doubt discs are better/safer. Hence the quick take up by MTB'ers.
2. Rim heat build up - leading to carbon rim deformation and/or tube/tyre blow out. Only an issue during long or very steep technical descents and mainly with carbon clincher rims (although Al rims can also if you try hard enough). I use aluminium clincher rims (having destroyed a front carbon rim in the above manner and survived) but would love to go back to carbon rims. Tubular rims would be another solution, but obviously they have their own practical problems when it comes to puntures, a path I'm not prepared to go down.
I don't see the pro's having any of the above issues to deal with, hence I'd be surprised if they start using discs; but sponsors can be very persuasive!
I would agree to your last remark about pros using discs in the future (if it's good for them, it's good for me). With regards to changing tubulars, I have turned to riding them in 2006 and I am running them still on the same Ritchey 58mm carbon rims. I prefer changing a flat tubular to changing an inner tube with a clincher tire (much faster) although I didn't have to on the road for the last couple of years (covering >20'000km). My advice: if you want to ride carbon wheels do not waste your time with clinchers, they can be be dangerous and are heavier on top of that.
Sorry, eurovision is on.
Sorry, eurovision is on.
I've been riding a disc brake road bike for about a year now. Never had discs before although I did a lot of mountain biking before they were affordable/commonplace.
My thoughts are; one can get used to anything. I have ridden single speed, rigid MTB on black trails and yes, it can be done, would you have more fun on a full susser with discs, maybe, would you be safer, definitely.
As to road bikes, of course rim brakes are fine. Most of us have survived perfectly well up to now with them. But here in Devon, hills are steep, potholes are deep and resurfacing is not a regular event. I find discs give more confidence.
To me, the real advantage of road discs are in the extreme engineering non-elegence of rim braking. Why would you want to wear down your wheel rim? Those things are pricey! And a rim blow out is a a hell of a shock...
As to aesthetics, I'm with Le Courbusier; form follows function.
Nothing wrong with progression, nothing wrong with disc brakes. I am somewhat bemused at the way people seem to have absorbed and regurgitated the internet take on discs and are almost frantic to suggest that they are the only option to consider.
As I keep saying, it's just a slightly different way of slowing a bike down, not a revolution. It does suggest that cycling is moving farther away from being a sport and is becoming a leisure activity for those with enough disposable income.
Technology will be used by the manufacturers to sell us the latest and bestest thing and people will lap it up without a second thought.
Anyway, Eurovision is on..
Not the only option, but within 10 years they will be damned close ... just look at mountain bikes!
Strange, i'm mostly hearing that they're a good option and a lot of the comments appear to be from people who have actually tried them, not some ritual intonement of some mythical script. I agree that there is some minority idiot comment to the effect that you should only ever consider discs, but that's exactly what it is - a minority.
It suggests nothing of the sort, why do you think so ?
Given the high price or good wheels, it has always felt incredibly perverse to then start wearing them down with the use of rims brakes.....if for no other reason bring on the disc brakes and then I will feel more comfortable with spending on spangly wheels
I crashed on my rim-brake equiped bike due to my slow reaction and spent two months in bed. After that I bought bike with hydro disc brakes and I can not be more satisfied. Reaction time is much better, they feel much safer on descents, and you really can not compare them on wet surface. And there is no need to clean rims any more.
Nice bike!
I like the look of that
Ive just built a disc brake road bike and all i can say is wow!!!!
I wasn't planning on building a disc brake bike but a deal came up on a disc frame set i couldn't say no to
I will never be building a caliper brake bike again!!
Braking is so much better, more control, more confidence, later braking, not worrying when approaching a junction at the bottom of a hill, braking feels so smooth
You have to ride a disc brake road bike in a hilly area and you will see what i mean
Couldn't care less about pro riders on discs or not, in the real world of road riding with traffic, open roads etc... give me discs over calipers every time
Agreed, I wouldn't be with-out mine now.
You'll also not be wearing out your rims on all that descending = less wheel rebuilding/replacement.
I'd love a disk-braked bike, but waiting to see how the QR/through axle & mounting system choices play out - bit too Betamax/VHS for me at present.
...and for the hard of thinking, you do realise that you're being marketed to, right?
Disc brakes are not being developed as a favour, or as a philanthropic exercise, they are being developed so people will buy more stuff...
See ladies handbags for the fashion equivalent.
I would like the option of disc on my road bikes, but not if I have to pay through the nose for it and it's not something i'd go hunting after like some weird desire. As such, the recent push towards discs on road bikes lines up my preference with their commercial interests. This is a good thing for me, and perhaps to others as well.
Wat
I believe it's commonly known as "progression"
What a stupid comment. Look around you and you will see loads of stuff that was purely developed in order to sell it to people, and yet I bet you'd rather have it than the older alternatives. For example, HD TVs, dishwashers, Lycra, coffee, pneumatic tyres, carbon frames, commercial LED light bulbs, etc. etc. etc.
Everything is developed to improve something that has gone before, some bits may be developed in labs but all of it makes it to us as consumers in the form of stuff that people developed purely because they thought it might make us money.
Disc brakes are clearly better otherwise they wouldn't be on every mountain bike everywhere, and it's only taken this long to get to road bikes because road riders tend to be stubborn Luddites, as demonstrated by many of the comments on these disc brake related threads.
Mmmmm yes, mountain bike rims have really pushed the envelope of rim design since disc brakes became commonplace.
Oh, wait...
Talk to a mountain biker... Disc brakes are just better, more modulation, more power, less spanner time and allow you to design a rim that only has to act as a rim. lighter, stronger, more aerodynamic. Take your pick. It really is a no brainer...
modulation imo is more of a personal thing, rather than the braking systems'. And ime, rim brakes are more easy to handle under hard braking, as the braking fore is focused on the centre - disc brakes tend to veer off to the left/right depending on which side the brakes on.
Funniest thing i've heard in a long time....
For the same reason, the next logical development in bike technology will be groupsets with a cassette and chain on both sides.
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