Canal and River Trust to hold live Twitter Q&A in wake of survey about speeding towpath cyclists

Ramuz wrote:

In other news: at least four people killed by hit-and-run drivers in the last few days.

I'm sure the Canal and River Trust will direct their attention towards road safety immediately, thanks to this timely reminder.

congokid wrote:

If speeding cyclists are a 'real problem on canal towpaths', the Canal and River Trust must have some quite compelling KSI data...

Indeed. No problems are real unless someone is dead or seriously injured, after all.

urbanautomaton wrote:

congokid wrote:

If speeding cyclists are a 'real problem on canal towpaths', the Canal and River Trust must have some quite compelling KSI data...

Indeed. No problems are real unless someone is dead or seriously injured, after all.

Well, yes. That is indeed the logic that is applied when dealing with motor vehicles. Authorities won't consider the design of junctions until a minimum number of people are killed there. Councils justify new shared-space schemes or other road layouts by referring to the KSI figures.

Are you suggesting a different standard should apply only if its danger from bikes that is the issue, then? Why is that?

[Of course, my heart isn't entirely in this line of argument as I'd rather the attitude to car-danger was changed...but its strange you speak as if it's the norm not to just go by KSI data, when that is actually the way it's usually done]

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Are you suggesting a different standard should apply only if its danger from bikes that is the issue, then?

Well, no? I'm suggesting that KSI is a weird standard for measuring whether towpaths are pleasant for all forms of recreational use. It's got sod all to do with roads and the norms used for planning them, because the Canal and River Trust have sod all to do with roads.

Dunno why I'm so grumpy about this tbqh, it just seems like the sort of nonsensical whataboutery that we'd (rightly) be up in arms about coming from the car lobby. Of course standards for planning roads should be better, but are we really going to get that by implying that it's fine to cycle like dicks on the towpath as long as we're not killing anyone?

urbanautomaton wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Are you suggesting a different standard should apply only if its danger from bikes that is the issue, then?

Well, no? I'm suggesting that KSI is a weird standard for measuring whether towpaths are pleasant for all forms of recreational use. It's got sod all to do with roads and the norms used for planning them, because the Canal and River Trust have sod all to do with roads.

Dunno why I'm so grumpy about this tbqh, it just seems like the sort of nonsensical whataboutery that we'd (rightly) be up in arms about coming from the car lobby. Of course standards for planning roads should be better, but are we really going to get that by implying that it's fine to cycle like dicks on the towpath as long as we're not killing anyone?

We probably don't disagree all that much really. As a pedestrian I don't like sharing with fast cyclists either.

But I do think there's a general problem with using KSI figures as a measure of 'success' for transport schemes, and I don't think canal paths are radically different things from, say, some shared-space scheme in a town centre...

Hence I think the original post made a valid point. If one applied the same (poor) logic that gets used for cars, one could claim there's no problem here to begin with.

congokid wrote:

If speeding cyclists are a 'real problem on canal towpaths', the Canal and River Trust must have some quite compelling KSI data...

well as a boater on the canals, can I suggest you check out any of the Canal Facebook Groups. You will find that cyclists are generally hated by all the other towpath users e.g. Boaters, anglers, walkers, joggers and tourists. This is a shame as it's a minority of cyclists that stir up this hatred but it's all cyclists that get the blame. It's ironic that cyclists are victims of speeding cars drivers on roads, but are perseved as the baddies on the canals.  The canals nowadays are a place of leisure, where people stroll slowly along the towpaths, dogs walk off the lead, children enjoy themselves, anglers often partly block the towpaths, boaters step off their boats without looking or expecting cyclists. So even a commuting cyclist being considerate, going at 10mph, can be a problem for other users as this is not your usual cycle path, but is often a towpath that is too narrow to pass a pedestrian without one of you stepping into the bushes.  In the 10 years I've been cruising the canals, I've had a cyclist give way to me on only one accasion  (a very nice Asian gentleman in Newbury). I like many others, don't hear cyclists or even their bells coming up behind me as my hearing is poor now I'm in my 60s. I've been shouted at, threatened, pushed into bushes and accidentally run down by a cyclist who expected me to be aware of them and jump out of their way. I pay almost £900 to the Canal and River Trust to use my boat on the canals, but they ignore boaters concerns about speeding, selfish cyclists as they're more interested in making money from cycling groups. So please, please, all you decent cyclists, work with the Canal and River Trust to sort this issue out