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Family forced off road by bus say there were told ‘cycling isn’t a priority’ by Northamptonshire Police
A cycling family who suffered a close pass by a bus say they were told by Northamptonshire Police that there was not enough evidence of careless driving to support a prosecution, and that cycling wasn't a priority.
Alexander Dutton and his wife were riding a tandem with their two-year-old daughter on a trailer when they were forced off the road last September.
Writing on YouTube, Dutton said: “A Stagecoach bus driver attempted to overtake on a blind left-hand bend, when a car came the other way. The bus driver pulled left and braked, forcing us off the road and almost into the back of a car parked off the carriageway. The bus driver then drove off without stopping, despite me giving chase on foot and shouting for him to stop.”
He added: “Northamptonshire Police have told us that there isn't enough evidence of careless driving to support a prosecution, and that cycling isn't a priority for them.”
Cycling UK’s Senior Road Safety and Legal Campaigner Duncan Dollimore said that three days before the expiration of the six month timeframe for bringing a prosecution for careless driving, Dutton and his wife received a letter from Northamptonshire Police indicating that they did not intend to prosecute the coach driver.
“That letter states that in making their decision the police considered not only whether an offence had occurred, but also whether a prosecution was necessary, with the explanation that ‘due to the nature of the injuries’ the driver would be offered a place on a driver re-training course if they decided to prosecute.
“As he had already attended a similar course in the interim, arranged through his employer, the police seem to have decided that was enough, that all’s well that ends well, and applied the ‘nobody died’ test in deciding not to prosecute.
“It simply beggars belief that nobody at Northamptonshire Police realised that the offence of careless driving concerns the standard of driving, and the fact that nobody was injured does not excuse bad driving, particularly by a professional driver.
“If they don’t think anyone was affected by this incident perhaps they should listen again to the audio of the incident, and the terrified screams form the back of the tandem.”
A spokeswoman for Stagecoach said: "Safety is our absolute priority and we were concerned to hear about this incident. We have liaised directly with the family involved since the incident occurred. Our local team investigated the circumstances and the driver involved was dealt with through our internal disciplinary procedure."
Northamptonshire Police have been contacted for comment.
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
Latest Comments
- ktache 3 hours 28 min ago
The small frame, the aggressive posture, lots of standover height.
- mctrials23 4 hours 24 min ago
As i've said before, the police should be sued for a lot of money when someone they have knowingly ignored has gone on to commit a serious crime....
- David9694 4 hours 31 min ago
'Bad parking' blocks firefighters multiple times on same emergency call-out...
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- Adam Sutton 5 hours 21 min ago
Good stuff. Now do it on cycleway C9 through Hammersmith to Chiswick.
- mark1a 5 hours 30 min ago
It's technically allowed but it's not known as "London's Orbital Car Park" for nothing.
- Dogless 6 hours 38 min ago
You're defending bombing hospitals and refugee camps and starving children.
- mattw 9 hours 18 min ago
Used car salesman is a complete attention-seeking plank....
- tubasti 9 hours 35 min ago
I don't know if they're any better, but they's certainly become more boring.
- FionaJJ 10 hours 1 min ago
At risk of being cynical, and stereotyping the police, it's so they don't have to leave the comfort of their panda cars and pursue on foot when...
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26 comments
there's a few more issues here that nobody has mentioned...
the parked cars are in an awful position
the rear coach camera is not in focus, and not fit for purpose
Swiss has hinted at this - the cyclists cannot see through the coach and have no way of knowing about the oncoming car, so they maintain their speed and are forced to brake late
I'm also a bit dubious about how appropriate that road is for coach use
The laws apply at all times. Maybe attempt to drive better.
Laws generally apply once common sense has failed.
If it isn't a blind bend then the driver has decided to overtake when they can see the parked cars and driver coming towards them. That's equally bad and trying apportion some blame to the cyclists and car coming the other way is entirely nonsense.
I knew when I first posted that knee jerk reactions would ensue, but here goes...
Hardly a blind bend - https://goo.gl/maps/58YfmnvsDYu
As I posted before, the oncoming car should have had an inking of what was coming towards them. Seeing an oncoming bus on your side of the road, which is both overtaking and approaching a parked car, perhaps you'd slow/giveway?
To be fair to the bus driver he starts his overtaking manoever on the other side of the road giving the tandem & trailer room.
I just think that the bus was caught out by a combination of circumstances.
If a bus seemed to be struggling to overtake me on my bike i'd just apply the brakes / freewheel a bit instead of pressing on. The clue would be in how long its alongside me.
All 3 parties in this seem to be intent on pressing on as they all deem themselves to having a certain right of way. Sometimes you just have to back off or giveway even though you have on paper 'right of way', its easy enough to have an accident if you want to.
Looking at the 'cyclist's' previous youtube posts suggests to me that similar events have been happening to him before.
I dearly wanted one of those trailers but after careful consideration I decided that the only safe place in which to use one would be on the local shared use path/cycleway and both me & kids would have been bored of the same path quickly.
I ride everyday and each time I am aware of other road users potential for accidents and that I will come off worse if such an event was to occur. That is the decision & risk I take for myself, I dont dwell on each near miss etc otherwise I wouldnt enjoy riding.
This site is often like reading an odd mirror of The Daily Mail, with all mistakes demanding harsh punishment, different viewpoints to be squashed.
Give and take is required as is some understanding of each others requirements on the road.
BTW - Cutting across mini roundabout central markings is not legal as per Highway Code;
188-Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so.
Try and chill out folks - on and off the road.
Perhaps they didn't take the mini roundabout fully correctly, although I interpret that rule as meaning don't go with wheels on the wrong side, as there are so many roundabouts that just are not big enough to stay off the paint. But anyway, it has nothing to do with it.
The driver is 100% at fault. He either chose to overtake when he could not see what was coming or could see the car and went either way. Whatever it's not a mistake, its bad driving.
Its not about dwelling on anything, but demanding something change, otherwise who knows when a near miss won't be?
In many industries the training around accidents emphasises that they are the result of a series of circumstances, individually predictable and controllable to different degrees. Avoiding accidents means eliminating the steps in the chain that leads to a higher probability of an incident.
In this case the bus driver failed to follow a behaviour pattern that reduced the risk of an accident.
He has been trained to do the opposite.
The law suggests that he do the opposite.
Your fatalistic approach to this suggests that you would be a dangerous road user. Please stay home.
I knew when I first posted that knee jerk reactions would ensue, but here goes...
Hardly a blind bend - https://goo.gl/maps/58YfmnvsDYu
As I posted before, the oncoming car should have had an inking of what was coming towards them. Seeing an oncoming bus on your side of the road, which is both overtaking and approaching a parked car, perhaps you'd slow/giveway?
To be fair to the bus driver he starts his overtaking manoever on the other side of the road giving the tandem & trailer room.
I just think that the bus was caught out by a combination of circumstances.
If a bus seemed to be struggling to overtake me on my bike i'd just apply the brakes / freewheel a bit instead of pressing on. The clue would be in how long its alongside me.
All 3 parties in this seem to be intent on pressing on as they all deem themselves to having a certain right of way. Sometimes you just have to back off or giveway even though you have on paper 'right of way', its easy enough to have an accident if you want to.
Looking at the 'cyclist's' previous youtube posts suggests to me that similar events have been happening to him before.
I dearly wanted one of those trailers but after careful consideration I decided that the only safe place in which to use one would be on the local shared use path/cycleway and both me & kids would have been bored of the same path quickly.
I ride everyday and each time I am aware of other road users potential for accidents and that I will come off worse if such an event was to occur. That is the decision & risk I take for myself, I dont dwell on each near miss etc otherwise I wouldnt enjoy riding.
This site is often like reading an odd mirror of The Daily Mail, with all mistakes demanding harsh punishment, different viewpoints to be squashed.
Give and take is required as is some understanding of each others requirements on the road.
BTW - Cutting across mini roundabout central markings is not legal as per Highway Code;
188-Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so.
Try and chill out folks - on and off the road.
Moving into the path of oncoming traffic on a blind bend isn't careless driving. It is a reckless mentality. It's the sort of thing you expect from a 17 y/o driving a Golf, not from a professional driver in charge of a large public service vehicle.
The driver probably figured that he was driving a forty tonne bus, might is right, so get out of the way...
I bet he didn't even think that. The amount of times I see it with small cars I bet the thought that something could be round the corner didn't even enter his head. He didn't look past the next obstacle, the cyclists.
I live in Northampton. My experience is that Northants Police don't give a f**k about cyclists.
Maybe, but this driver is such an arsehole your children wouldn't be safe in a child seat in the back of a mk1 humvee.
This isn't about cycling, this is about woefully inadequate standards of driving by a professional driver, operating a very large vehicle, 8 to 10 tonnes, with up to 40 lives on board. Northhamptonshire police, you could do something about this now, before the driver kills someone, or you could wait, and then one of your officers will have to attempt to explain your lack of action to the family of the victims.
I hope that Northants police receive lots of feedback about this. Here's an email address for them:
mail [at] northants.police.uk
Having watched this several times I cannot see that anyone is totally at fault for this incident it is just a near miss and such is life.
The family on the bike cut over the top of the mini roundabout and then don't anticipate the traffic /road ahead, and the oncoming car also fails to read the road ahead.
But I am afraid that i don't have the faith in other road users or myself to attach my whole young family to a tandem and have a ride on the road. After all who hasn't made a mistake when riding or driving?
Considering there's no consequence if you make a mistake when you're driving... it doesn't really matter does it? Even if you drive drunk, you just lose your licence for a bit and then they just give it back to you... they don't even assess whether you're addicted.
I agree. I don't think I would ever attach my whole family to a bike and stick them in traffic. People may think 'that's not the point, he should be able to do that without worrying about other road users', yet having driven 7.5 tonne lorries for a living I'm not happy about driving those about the place on all roads.
having so much of your vehicle dangling at the back makes it hard to anticipate and guide round obstacles - car or bike. Tandems are a bit of a liability, but add a trailer to it and that's bonkers. His wife is very brave and from the sounds of it, his daughter is shit scared, and rightly so.
Right. If you ever have a family you will not be cycling with them.
I don't think I would ever attach myself to bike and stick me in traffic. People may think "that's not the point, MonNomAmusant should be able to do that without worrying about other road users", yet because I have driven a dangerous vehicle for a living I am not happy about driving that dangerous vehicle about the place on all roads.
In summary, I am a reasonable person who when witnessing a family following the rules of the road and a "professional" driver (like myself) will choose to criticise the family. In addition I will insinuate that my restraint in not driving a huge vehicle everywhere means that cyclists should also not be selfish....
May you live for ever on a busy road, populated by people such as yourself.
Are you kidding?! It's a blind bend. The oncoming driver also seems to be taken by surprise to find such a large vehicle heading towards them on their side of the road.
The family did nothing wrong at the roundabout. Going over the top of mini roundabouts is legal and often safer, as it stops drivers thinking you are turning left. The only mistake they made was not to take the road coming up to the car.
The bus however was not simple error but poor driving. He should never have been trying to overtake when he couldn't see what was coming. That's not an error or lapse of judgment but basic poor driving, and something people do all the time around cyclists. My route to work is a winding country road. It is 2.9 miles with 10 blind corners, one traffic light controlled staggered crossroads half way. There are several places that it is safe to overtake and most people only drive half of it and join the main road at the lights. I happily take the lane when I need to and am very confident. Yet I still get several people every day overtaking on blind corners, even when they catch me up at the corner. I get on average two attempts to undertake me in the middle of the junction and one person a week having to do an emergency stop because of a car coming the other way when they do an unsighted pass on a corner. It's not mistakes or poor judgment, it's poor driving that means people don't think what might be coming, just "must pass cyclists. I can't be held up for a second". Oddly these same people give miles of room for the horse riders that use the road sometimes and are happy to wait for them going much slower than me.
It's poor driving - but I can't see its as dangerous as a lot of incidents.
If the tandem was further out - would it have deterred the driver from overtaking on a blind bend ?
I think internal disciplinary is about right for this case.
I'd have thought the sight of a trailer containing a small child would have done that...
You'd hope so, but I've noticed (sorry - anecdotal evidence warning) lots of drivers who move even closer to bikes with trailers or child seats, as if they disagree with them on principle and want to teach a lesson.
seems like stagecoach bus drivers do this sort of thing frequently...
Although I'm not sure if they're very effective, it may be worth taking the case up with the Traffic Commissioner: www.gov.uk/government/organisations/traffic-commissioners/about