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Global study calls for 20mph speed limit as standard in built-up areas

Campaigners call for an end to “the postcode lottery on pedestrian/cycling safety”

A new report from the International Transport Forum has called for 20mph speed limits as standard in built-up areas. The study examined road safety performance in ten countries after they changed speed limits or introduced automatic speed cameras and in all cases found a strong relationship between average speed and the number of crashes.

Part of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the International Transport Forum is an intergovernmental organisation that acts as a think tank for transport policy.

Driver risks losing licence for repeatedly breaking 20mph limit

It looked at changes in speed limits in six countries and the introduction of automated speed enforcement in four more to gauge the impact on the number of collisions.

The report states that an increase in mean speed was accompanied by a higher number of crashes and casualties, while a decrease was associated with fewer crashes and casualties. In no case did an increase in mean speed coincide with fewer crashes or casualties.

The International Transport Forum therefore makes a number of recommendations.

  • Reduce the speed on roads as well as speed differences between vehicles
  • Set speed limits based on the Safe System principles, i.e. at a level that humans can survive without dramatic consequences in case of a crash
  • Introduce compensation measures where speed limits are increased; for instance, stricter enforcement or a safety upgrade of the road infrastructure
  • Use automatic speed control to effectively reduce speed

Working towards a Safe System, the authors proposed as reasonable speed limits:

  • 30 km/h in built-up and residential urban areas where motorised vehicles and vulnerable road users share the same space
  • 50 km/h in other urban areas with intersections and high risk of side collisions
  • 70 km/h on rural roads without a median barrier and a risk of head-on collisions

The report also notes that lower driving speeds generally improve citizens’ quality of life, especially in urban areas.

Rod King MBE, founder and director of the 20’s Plenty for Us campaign commented:

“This is yet another report coming to the firm conclusion that 20 is plenty where people live, work, play, shop and learn.

“Other countries have adopted a near universal 30km/h limit for urban and residential streets. Over 25% of the UK live in authorities who have also set 20mph as the right urban limit. The Scottish assembly is considering a bill to make 20mph the limit (with exceptions) for built up roads. It’s time to end the postcode lottery on pedestrian/cycling safety and general well-being in our residential and urban places by setting a 20mph default limit for built-up roads across the UK.”

Cycling UK supports Member of Scottish Parliament’s 20mph urban speed limit bill

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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PeterPeterPeter | 5 years ago
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I've been wondering for ages why we don't police speeding with a GPS system, that relatively speaking would be pretty cheap and loads better than the current system.

Everyone has a compulsory GPS tracker in any road liscensed vehicle, that doesn't log where you go but does ping a message to law enforcement every time you go over the speed limit but more than a few mph.

It would stop everyone whining about how unlucky they are when they get caught for speeding and the fines could be very small. Alot of current drivers would really notice pretty quickly if they got fined £10 every time they exceeded the speed limit, or got 3 points every 20 times.

Am I missing an obvious reason why this wouldn't work as I can't be the first to think of it- and seems like such an easy win.

I get that it would be politically difficult at first- but it isn't like there aren't a ton of restrictions already on car ownership, and I imagine the trackers being fitted in the liscense plates for example.

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nbrus replied to PeterPeterPeter | 5 years ago
0 likes

PeterPeterPeter wrote:

I've been wondering for ages why we don't police speeding with a GPS system, that relatively speaking would be pretty cheap and loads better than the current system.

Everyone has a compulsory GPS tracker in any road liscensed vehicle, that doesn't log where you go but does ping a message to law enforcement every time you go over the speed limit but more than a few mph.

It would stop everyone whining about how unlucky they are when they get caught for speeding and the fines could be very small. Alot of current drivers would really notice pretty quickly if they got fined £10 every time they exceeded the speed limit, or got 3 points every 20 times.

Am I missing an obvious reason why this wouldn't work as I can't be the first to think of it- and seems like such an easy win.

I get that it would be politically difficult at first- but it isn't like there aren't a ton of restrictions already on car ownership, and I imagine the trackers being fitted in the liscense plates for example.

The real problem is unsafe driving, not speeding, which is an attempt to limit unsafe driving. Unfortunately, GPS systems aren't yet able to detect unsafe driving. Self-driving or A.I. assisted vehicles could solve this issue.

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Legs_Eleven_Wor... | 5 years ago
0 likes

Here are my predictions, on the basis of the recent successful hate campaign waged by Kim Briggs' widower with the help of the Daily Mail and the Daily Mail-owned London Evening Standard, anxious to please their paymasters in the automobile and petrochemical industries. 

1.  Helmets will be made compulsory for all cyclists.  It won't matter that Kim Briggs would not have been saved by a helmet on Charlie Alliston's head.  It won't matter that there is very little reliable, peer-reivewed and methodologically sound research to indicate that helmets save lives.  None of that will matter, because savings lives isn't what it's about.  It's about punishing cyclists for every single person killed on Britain's roads over the past fifty years, whether they were killed by cyclists, car drivers, motorcyclists, lorry drivers, falling masonry or indeed by tripping on the kerb and hitting your head on the pavement. 

2.  Hi-viz will be made compulsory for all cyclists.  Again, this would not have changed the outcome of the Alliston-Briggs incident.  And again, none of that will matter a fuck for the reasons I outlined above.   If you ask when cars are all going to have be painted bright yellow, you'll be laughed at.  Or ignored.  

3.  Legislation will be changed to bring cyclists into line with car drivers with regard to speed limits.   It is my belief that they don't apply in Royal Parks, but the legislation would seem to indicate that they do.  We need a test case, but in the current climate, any test case would have an outcome that it is woefully trivial to predict.  Indeed, the only question on the Appeal Court's lips wouldn't be whether speed limits apply to cyclists in Royal Parks, but whether they could pin the blame for the extinction of the dinosaurs on us as well.    So speed limits will apply to cyclists.  Ask anyone why they should, when your average cyclist would need to be doing 125 mph to have the same kinetic energy as a car at 30 mph, and you'll get accused of being in favour of law-breaking.  Well, that's if they don't accuse you of being a pædophile, of course. 

4.  Cyclists will be forced to use a cycle lane when one is available, and there will be a hefty fine for non-compliance, which will be a far greater sum than a car driver could expect for a s. 2 or s. 3 offence, despite the greater potential for harm.  In addition, any collisions involving cyclists and pedestrians will be considered the former's fault by default.    That's right: 'presumed liability' is a political hot potato and thanks to the efforts of three of the UK's top terrorist organisations - the Daily Mail, the RAC and the AA - will never make an appearance on Britain's political landscape.  At least not for car drivers.  

5.  Use of the 'ASL' (Advanced Stop Line) by drivers and motorcycles will be decriminalised.  The effect of this will be twofold.  On the one hand, it will free up valuable resources in the UK's police forces, so that the latter can devote more time to monitoring Facebook and Twitter, as well as nicking people who say nasty things on public transport.  The other effect will be to reduce the statistics for road offences reported to the police.  The Transport Secretary will appear on national television and in august, measured tones will assure the Tory mouthpieces at the BBC, the Telegraph and the Daily Mail that '... this government is committed to reducing road deaths across the board, and these latest figures reveal that we are getting it right!'  The media will lap it up, and the idiots who believe what they read in their newspapers or on the web, will lap it up too. 

6.  Compulsory testing, registration and insurance will finally be introduced for cyclists, with hefty fines for those who fail to comply.  All new bicycles will be required by law to be fitted with RFID transmitters which will - thanks to a national network of posts by the side of the all roads, paid for out of the 'Poor Little Kim Briggs Memorial Fund' (a charity registered in England & Wales) - allow cyclists who commit offences to be located.   Cycling UK's request that these transmitters be installed in motor vehicles will be rejected by the human rights group Liberty as 'an unacceptable infringement on freedom of movement'.  

7.  VED will be renamed 'road tax'.  

Some of these will be implemented soon.  I believe that all of them will be in place within a decade.  

 

Avatar
ktache | 5 years ago
3 likes

A 20mph speed limit is not draconian.

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peted76 replied to ktache | 5 years ago
2 likes

ktache wrote:

A 20mph speed limit is not draconian.

It is to Hussain Bolt!

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to ktache | 5 years ago
0 likes

ktache wrote:

A 20mph speed limit is not draconian.

 

I tried to Google it, but it doesn't seem as if Draco said much about traffic law.  He imposed the death penalty for stealing a cabbage, apparently, but nothing about speeding chariots.

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peted76 | 5 years ago
5 likes

You can't outlaw Bolt, he's the peoples favourite! 

 

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nbrus | 5 years ago
2 likes

If the speed limit was reduced to 10 mph, then that would get more people onto bicycles. What needs changing is getting people to drive safely instead of being in a rush to get to their destination. Eating your bowl of cereal whilst stopped at the lights is not a sensible idea and those people need to get their act together. In terms of carrot/stick, I think rewarding people for good driving bahaviour (e.g. cheaper insurance) is more effective that imposing excessive restrictions that have minimal effect on those that already offend.

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davel replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
2 likes
nbrus wrote:

If the speed limit was reduced to 10 mph, then that would get more people onto bicycles. What needs changing is getting people to drive safely instead of being in a rush to get to their destination. Eating your bowl of cereal whilst stopped at the lights is not a sensible idea and those people need to get their act together. In terms of carrot/stick, I think rewarding people for good driving bahaviour (e.g. cheaper insurance) is more effective that imposing excessive restrictions that have minimal effect on those that already offend.

There's at least an argument here.

But how does that relate to your earlier post about 20mph being too slow and making an outlaw of Hussein Bolt?

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nbrus replied to davel | 5 years ago
0 likes

davel wrote:
nbrus wrote:

If the speed limit was reduced to 10 mph, then that would get more people onto bicycles. What needs changing is getting people to drive safely instead of being in a rush to get to their destination. Eating your bowl of cereal whilst stopped at the lights is not a sensible idea and those people need to get their act together. In terms of carrot/stick, I think rewarding people for good driving bahaviour (e.g. cheaper insurance) is more effective that imposing excessive restrictions that have minimal effect on those that already offend.

There's at least an argument here. But how does that relate to your earlier post about 20mph being too slow and making an outlaw of Hussein Bolt?

Hussain Bolt's top speed is 27 mph !!! 

He's faster than me on my bike and could easily exceed a 20 mph speed limit, so you can't just allow him to ignore speed limits if you want to impose them on motor vehicles.

Speed limits are a mechanism for ensuring safe driving. We should be targeting the cause not the symptom. Why do we make cars that can easily exceed any speed limit? Everyone knows that owners will exceed the speed limit when conditions allow and no one is looking. Draconian measures will not fix a problem that has a deeper cause. Drug dealers still deal drugs. You will never eliminate accidents, so you need to be sensible about what measures you take to reduce them.

It wasn't that long ago when Aliston was done for killing a pedestrian on his fixie and everyone (i.e. cyclists) was screaming that the pedestrian had a duty of care to look where she was going. Are we now suggesting the opposite? Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions, so imposing unneccessary draconian 20 mph speed restrictions that apply even when driving conditions can safely support 30 mph is taking things a little too far IMHO.

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ConcordeCX replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
0 likes

nbrus wrote:

davel wrote:
nbrus wrote:

If the speed limit was reduced to 10 mph, then that would get more people onto bicycles. What needs changing is getting people to drive safely instead of being in a rush to get to their destination. Eating your bowl of cereal whilst stopped at the lights is not a sensible idea and those people need to get their act together. In terms of carrot/stick, I think rewarding people for good driving bahaviour (e.g. cheaper insurance) is more effective that imposing excessive restrictions that have minimal effect on those that already offend.

There's at least an argument here. But how does that relate to your earlier post about 20mph being too slow and making an outlaw of Hussein Bolt?

Hussain Bolt's top speed is 27 mph !!! 

He's faster than me on my bike and could easily exceed a 20 mph speed limit, so you can't just allow him to ignore speed limits if you want to impose them on motor vehicles.

Speed limits are a mechanism for ensuring safe driving. We should be targeting the cause not the symptom. Why do we make cars that can easily exceed any speed limit? Everyone knows that owners will exceed the speed limit when conditions allow and no one is looking. Draconian measures will not fix a problem that has a deeper cause. Drug dealers still deal drugs. You will never eliminate accidents, so you need to be sensible about what measures you take to reduce them.

It wasn't that long ago when Aliston was done for killing a pedestrian on his fixie and everyone (i.e. cyclists) was screaming that the pedestrian had a duty of care to look where she was going. Are we now suggesting the opposite? Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions, so imposing unneccessary draconian 20 mph speed restrictions that apply even when driving conditions can safely support 30 mph is taking things a little too far IMHO.

that's an argument for removing all speed restrictions. Which is not necessarily a bad idea, but leaves things open to subjective interpretation.

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nbrus replied to ConcordeCX | 5 years ago
0 likes

ConcordeCX wrote:

that's an argument for removing all speed restrictions. Which is not necessarily a bad idea, but leaves things open to subjective interpretation.

I feel confident that in the not too distant future we will have A.I. built into all motor vehicles and it will prevent us from driving in an unsafe manner, or may even do the driving for us if we choose. When this happens we will have no need for speed limits.

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Hirsute replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
5 likes

nbrus wrote:

I feel confident that in the not too distant future we will have A.I. built into all motor vehicles and it will prevent us from driving in an unsafe manner, or may even do the driving for us if we choose. When this happens we will have no need for speed limits.

Such a scenario would come with consequences though such as not allowing cycling and only allowing pedestrians to cross at designated points.

 

I don't have that level of confidence in software either.

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ConcordeCX replied to Hirsute | 5 years ago
2 likes

hirsute wrote:

nbrus wrote:

I feel confident that in the not too distant future we will have A.I. built into all motor vehicles and it will prevent us from driving in an unsafe manner, or may even do the driving for us if we choose. When this happens we will have no need for speed limits.

Such a scenario would come with consequences though such as not allowing cycling and only allowing pedestrians to cross at designated points.

I don't have that level of confidence in software either.

there won't be any pedestrians or cyclists, we'll all have jetpacks.

Software's fine. It's the people who commission it that are the problem. See Uber for further details.

Your scenario won't happen. Not only because it's socially unacceptable, but also because properly specified and written software can deal with the difficulties. We are only at the very beginning right now, and as far as I can see the best of the software is already better than humans. This doesn't mean that no-one will be killed or injured in the forthcoming utopia, but there will be very significantly fewer than now, and each death will be treated far more seriously than the deaths brought about now by human drivers. It's irrational but hey, humans.

it will also be possible for cyclists, pedestrians, skateboarders and so on to equip themselves with smart watches or phones which will communicate with the rest of the infrastructure and with other portable devices. By then we probably won't even need a phone or watch, they'll be built into our false teeth,which will be permantly clamped to Strava.

 

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
2 likes

nbrus wrote:

ConcordeCX wrote:

that's an argument for removing all speed restrictions. Which is not necessarily a bad idea, but leaves things open to subjective interpretation.

I feel confident that in the not too distant future we will have A.I. built into all motor vehicles and it will prevent us from driving in an unsafe manner, or may even do the driving for us if we choose. When this happens we will have no need for speed limits.

 

Another one falling for the hype.  Why are so many so gullible about this stuff?

Avatar
davel replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
4 likes
nbrus wrote:

davel wrote:
nbrus wrote:

If the speed limit was reduced to 10 mph, then that would get more people onto bicycles. What needs changing is getting people to drive safely instead of being in a rush to get to their destination. Eating your bowl of cereal whilst stopped at the lights is not a sensible idea and those people need to get their act together. In terms of carrot/stick, I think rewarding people for good driving bahaviour (e.g. cheaper insurance) is more effective that imposing excessive restrictions that have minimal effect on those that already offend.

There's at least an argument here. But how does that relate to your earlier post about 20mph being too slow and making an outlaw of Hussein Bolt?

Hussain Bolt's top speed is 27 mph !!! 

He's faster than me on my bike and could easily exceed a 20 mph speed limit, so you can't just allow him to ignore speed limits if you want to impose them on motor vehicles.

Speed limits are a mechanism for ensuring safe driving. We should be targeting the cause not the symptom. Why do we make cars that can easily exceed any speed limit? Everyone knows that owners will exceed the speed limit when conditions allow and no one is looking. Draconian measures will not fix a problem that has a deeper cause. Drug dealers still deal drugs. You will never eliminate accidents, so you need to be sensible about what measures you take to reduce them.

It wasn't that long ago when Aliston was done for killing a pedestrian on his fixie and everyone (i.e. cyclists) was screaming that the pedestrian had a duty of care to look where she was going. Are we now suggesting the opposite? Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions, so imposing unneccessary draconian 20 mph speed restrictions that apply even when driving conditions can safely support 30 mph is taking things a little too far IMHO.

Where to start...

Maybe with "Usain" Bolt...

He's kind of a pedestrian, with about 95kg of mass, no?

Unlikely to be travelling at 27mph for much longer than 200 yards, no?

Do you spot any differences between him and a car, say even a little one, like a Fiat 500, that is over 5 times his mass and has no tissue or flesh?

Is it just a bit possible that we might make laws that treat the damage dealt by such different vehicles, er, differently? Kind of how they already do?

Here's a clue...

It might be just a tad fucking cretinous, short-sighted, and fuckwitted to suggest that "Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions" is any kind of solution when 5 people die every fucking day on the roads.

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nbrus replied to davel | 5 years ago
0 likes

davel wrote:

It might be just a tad fucking cretinous, short-sighted, and fuckwitted to suggest that "Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions" is any kind of solution when 5 people die every fucking day on the roads.

Let's say you're driving around town at 01.00 am in the morning and no one is around ... do you think a 20 mph speed limit is appropriate for these conditions? Is it ok for police, ambulance, and fire services to break speed limits? Most in town traffic rarely reaches 20 mph as it is.

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Sniffer replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
4 likes

nbrus wrote:

davel wrote:

It might be just a tad fucking cretinous, short-sighted, and fuckwitted to suggest that "Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions" is any kind of solution when 5 people die every fucking day on the roads.

Let's say you're driving around town at 01.00 am in the morning and no one is around ... do you think a 20 mph speed limit is appropriate for these conditions?

Yes!

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
4 likes

nbrus wrote:

It wasn't that long ago when Aliston was done for killing a pedestrian on his fixie and everyone (i.e. cyclists) was screaming that the pedestrian had a duty of care to look where she was going. Are we now suggesting the opposite? Every sensible driver already drives at a speed appropriate for the conditions, so imposing unneccessary draconian 20 mph speed restrictions that apply even when driving conditions can safely support 30 mph is taking things a little too far IMHO.

 

I don't know about 'everyone', but I for one certainly didn't regard Aliston as blameless.  Even if I thought the police 'reconstruction' was shockingly stupid, and felt annoyed by the glaring double-standard displayed in the whole affair, Aliston did screw up in several ways.

  In any case, in that example the victim stepped out at a distance where a car going at 20mph would have been unlikely to stop in time (6.5m, about the precise idealised stopping distance for a car at that speed - and since when do motorists stay under the speed limit?), so what's the relevance to a discussion about 20mph limits?

 

As for 'every sensible driver' and 'speed appropriate for the conditions'...  Firstly there are huge numbers of drivers who are not sensible.  Secondly what does 'appropriate for the conditions' even _mean_?   I don't understand what that phrase is supposed to mean.  Appropriate for whose needs and priorities?  The driver's or everyone else's?  Fast traffic is intimidating to both pedestrians and cyclists, and it greatly increases the cost to those road users of driver errors.

 

It's not up to drivers alone to decide what is 'appropriate', the roads in urban areas don't belong to them, they are there on sufferance.  in more than a few roads I'd prefer a speed limit for motorised traffic of zero.  I'll settle for 20.  Why do you want to drive down my streets at high speed?  Leave home earlier or get a bike!

Avatar
peted76 | 5 years ago
11 likes

Hussain Bolt, that famous Iraqi runner. 

 

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Bill H | 5 years ago
1 like

20MPH limits are pretty much de rigeur in London these days but my cynicism about them was blown away by a recent trip to Bath. I freely admit that in London the limit is ignored by too many people, but average speeds have dropped to the mid-20's or thereabouts. In contrast, in Bath folk were hammering thru' Widcombe High Street (please note, not the Lower Bristol road) at 35MPH+ and crossing the road was a genuine cause for concern.

We walked into Bath a couple of times via the Farmers' Market in the old train station and folk were speeding on those tiny roads too. A few years ago those speeds would have been normal in Leyton or Wanstead, but thankfully we have moved on. I might still comment on folk ignoring the limits in Town, but how 30MPH can be considered acceptable in any suburban setting is beyond me.

 

 

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felixcat | 5 years ago
4 likes

Summary:At 20mph one in twenty pedestrians hit will die.

                      At 30mph nine in twenty pedestrians hit will die.

                      At 40mph nineteen in twenty pedestrians hit will die.

 

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felixcat replied to felixcat | 5 years ago
3 likes

felixcat wrote:

These figures understate the safety benefits of slowing drivers down. They show how much more likely it is that pedestrians hit a slower speeds will survive, but not how much less likely it is that they will be hit in the first place.

Summary:At 20mph one in twenty pedestrians hit will die.

                      At 30mph nine in twenty pedestrians hit will die.

                      At 40mph nineteen in twenty pedestrians hit will die.

Another benefit is that it makes built up areas, which by definition are where people live, work, shop or go to school, so much more pleasant places to be, and make it so much easier to cross the road.

 

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Morat | 5 years ago
0 likes

The current limits are fine, if enforced (or accepted).

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nbrus | 5 years ago
0 likes

Why not just reduce the speed to Zero mph and eliminate accidents altogether. No point in half measures. Seriously, 20 mph is way too slow.

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don simon fbpe replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
6 likes

nbrus wrote:

Why not just reduce the speed to Zero mph and eliminate accidents altogether. No point in half measures. Seriously, 20 mph is way too slow.

For what?

Avatar
felixcat replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
4 likes

nbrus wrote:

Why not just reduce the speed to Zero mph and eliminate accidents altogether. No point in half measures. Seriously, 20 mph is way too slow.

"

The UK DOT analyzed injury and death rates for pedestrians hit by vehicles at 20 mph, 30 mph, and 40 mph. They found that at 20 mph, or at the typical speed limit in school zones in the US, roughly 5% of pedestrians would not survive a vehicular collision. Let’s use a sample of 20 random people (young adults, children, middle-aged men and women, and seniors) to make the percentages more understandable.

In our hypothetical 20 mph collision, a 5% fatality rate means 1 out of 20 individuals would die, whether at the scene or at the hospital. 65%, or 13 out of 20, would survive with some injury, such as a broken leg or arm. A full 30% would walk away without any injuries whatsoever, or 6 out of our sample 20 people. Those are pretty good odds; you’d have a 95% chance of surviving what could otherwise be the last day of your life.

The picture changes dramatically at 30 mph; just 10 mph more.

What are my odds of surviving if I’m hit by a car at 30 mph?

 

Now we’re at the typical speed limit for urban and suburban areas in many parts of the US. Keep in mind most people in 30 mph zones aren’t going to be traveling at 30 mph; they’re going to be traveling faster. But if they obeyed the speed limit, here’s what would happen, on average, if they hit random members of our random sample of 20 people.

First of all, the death rate jumps to 45%. A full 9 out of 20 people would die, whether at the scene or soon afterward. Game over. No take backs, no do-overs. Just dead. Another 50% would be injured, or 10 out of 20 people. And a scant 5%, or just 1 out of 20 people, could expect to walk away without injury.

The difference is sobering. Think of it the next time you’re driving past a crosswalk, or better yet, crossing one on foot. If you’re hit at 20 mph, you’re going to have a bad day, but you’re almost guaranteed to survive to complain about it the next day. If you’re hit at 30 mph, it’s a coin flip as to whether you’re going to see your loved ones again, ever. Is it fair to give so much power over to someone who wanted to get somewhere, anywhere a few seconds earlier?

Of course, the picture gets still worse at 40 mph. In fact, it makes 30 mph look marvelous.

What are my odds of surviving if I’m hit by a car at 40 mph?

 

You’re likely to see 40 (or 45) mph speed limits on the outskirts of towns or on 2-4 lane roadways and expressways through large cities (e.g., Lake Shore Drive in Chicago or State Street or Harrison Avenue in Rockford, IL). They’re pretty common, and the odds are good that you can think of an area close to where you live with 40+ mph speed limits that doesn’t require going on the highway. Yet you can also probably think of a number of times when you’ve seen pedestrians attempting to cross such streets, with or without cross-walks. Here’s what would happen, on average, if 20 people were hit at these speeds.

To put it simply, nearly all of them would die at the scene. The death rate jumps to a near-conclusive 95%. That’s 19 out of 20 people, or pretty much everyone. That’s not the injury rate; it’s the death rate. The 20th person would be injured. That’s a 5% survival rate. There are very few diseases with 95% fatality rates (untreated Rabies is the only one most Americans have any real risk of coming across), but those are your odds of dying if you’re hit by a vehicle at speeds you’re likely to find in every city in the country."

 

 

Avatar
FluffyKittenofT... replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
1 like

nbrus wrote:

Why not just reduce the speed to Zero mph and eliminate accidents altogether. No point in half measures. Seriously, 20 mph is way too slow.

 

For many roads, I'd agree.  Did you have a point?

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nbrus replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 5 years ago
0 likes

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

nbrus wrote:

Why not just reduce the speed to Zero mph and eliminate accidents altogether. No point in half measures. Seriously, 20 mph is way too slow.

For many roads, I'd agree.  Did you have a point?

Yes, my point is 20 mph is way too slow. Kids on pedal cycles would be done for speeding. Hussain Bolt would be done for speeding. My neighbour's cat would be done for speeding.

We already have 20 mph zones in areas where it makes sense, we don't need these zones everywhere. A max speed limit does not mean you have to drive at that speed. Always drive according to conditions and expect the unexpected. Don't start penalising drivers for driving safely when conditions allow. 20 mph is slow...

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davel replied to nbrus | 5 years ago
6 likes
nbrus wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

nbrus wrote:

Why not just reduce the speed to Zero mph and eliminate accidents altogether. No point in half measures. Seriously, 20 mph is way too slow.

For many roads, I'd agree.  Did you have a point?

Yes, my point is 20 mph is way too slow. Kids on pedal cycles would be done for speeding. Hussain Bolt would be done for speeding. My neighbour's cat would be done for speeding.

We already have 20 mph zones in areas where it makes sense, we don't need these zones everywhere. A max speed limit does not mean you have to drive at that speed. Always drive according to conditions and expect the unexpected. Don't start penalising drivers for driving safely when conditions allow. 20 mph is slow...

That's a lot of words to say absolutely fuck-all.

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