Sister of 21-year-old cyclist killed in London calls for cyclists to have training they are allowed onto the roads

I have just been on a 2 hour road ride from NW London out through South London into Surrey and back through Chiswick and W London

Riding out through central London I saw a number of very dangerous cyclists, jumping red lights, riding onto pavement to go around red lights; including one guy riding a company branded cargo bike using his mobile and steering with one hand completely oblvious to his surroundings

generally, the motorists were well behaved, apart from the usual infringement of ASL. Saw a very nasty RTC in Norbiton where the Police said a motorist had turned across a motorbiker, the guy was receiving defib on the pavement!!

Coming back into NW1 through Regent's Park had a near miss with a guy in an estate car who had parked in the ASL, looked into his window he is using a Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

Then near home, had a motorist completely ignore me whilst riding 15mph on a main road, turn across me from a side street nearly hitting me, plenting of swearing from him as he sped off.

Around the the next corner were 2 police on their local beat. Stopped for a chat with them outside my house.

Police said ASL is now 100 pound fine and 3 points on licence, but problem for them is:

-being in 'right place at right time' to witness traffic offences.
-lack of police people on the ground, due to cutbacks.

said they find their job very frustrating as there is so much they cannot do anything about. more cameras would help but fines go to treasury which does not directly increase Police funding.

From other police people I have spoken to recently (I used to work for B.T.P.) they said there is a lack of political will from senior management to clamp down on rogue cycling because of all the pressure coming from Mayor Boris Johnson's office about pro-cycling.

"Legislation already exists about motorists and road use".

Correct but as case after case has has proven, the legislation is not there to protect the most vulnerable. Justice is rarely done or seen to be done which is a huge failing. As a result there is close to zero deterrence (a vital component of a criminal justice system) to sloppy, impatient and intolerant driving which has been statistically established as the majority cause of cycling KSI's.

Until this above all else has changed, sadly KSI's will keep rising.

I did Bikeability level 3 recently.
Most of the skills taught were about managing drivers around you who don't driver carefully around cyclists.

The driving test in the UK is far too easy and does not give the necessary tets of how to deal with vunerable road users. A cycling element first in driving lessions/test would be an improvement.

Have the circumstances of the crash been released yet? I haven't seen anything to say who was at fault. It would be a weird jump in logic to call for compulsory training for cyclists if the lorry was in the wrong whilst the rider had done nothing to jeopardise her safety.

I would like to see cycle training made compulsory in schools (1 course at primary level, another more advanced course at secondary), and a cycling component in the driving test too.

What's really frustrating about road safety in London is how easy it could be to create good, segregated lanes across the city - they managed to put the zil lanes in for the Olympics - but there just isn't the political desire to actually do anything of worth. How many more people need to die?

In a rational world this would read:

"
Sister of 21-year-old cyclist killed in London calls for truckers to have training before they are allowed onto the roads

"You should have something to say you know how to protect vulnerable people around you" before you can truck on the road, says bereaved 19-year-old
"

You can give all the cycle training in the world, however it will not get away from idiots driving dangerously when behind the wheel of a vehicle. I commute 120 miles every day by car and see plenty of awful, driving from a wide varied range of drivers, including a police Inspector who was in his own private car of all people.
Whether I drive or cycle I always adopt a self preservation attitude, however having lived in Germany a number of years, the UK needs to adopt the same laws and put the onus on those who drive vehicles that injure or kill and they have the responsibility to ensure the safety of vulnerable road users, attitudes amongst car, van & lorry drivers will not change. The message from the courts needs to be a tough one, while lenient sentences are passed out or in some cases none at all, people will not take note. Irrespective of whether they need a car or not, that should not even be a consideration in these cases. Harsh yes but that is what is needed to get peoples attention and get them to act.

I think the boyfriend of the victim makes a very valid point. Cycling has been pushed up the political agenda in recent years and promoted heavily through schemes such as Boris bikes, yet what is being done to keep cyclists safe?

At best there is patchy cycling infrastructure that usually gives priority to motor traffic at every junction. At worst we're forced to intermingle with traffic at horrific junctions like those at Aldgate, Bow and Holborn. Proper infrastructure takes time to develop but what is required first is commitment to develop it and that in itself is minimal.

Our leaders are quite happy to promote cycling and it's benefits, without actually having the backbone to ensure that cyclists are safe. A few hundred seriously injured or killed doesn't seem enough to take space away from motor traffic in the cities.

As for compulsory training I believe it would be massively counterproductive and impossible to police. Infrastructure and public information campaigns are the best solutions IMO.

While I think compulsory training for cyclist is silly, I think cycle proficiency test should be a compulsory part of the driving test (Theory test -> Cycle test -> Practical driving test). If someone cannot handle a bike safely on the road, then he/she cannot be trusted with a motor vehicle. A lot of drivers underestimates the speed of cyclist and mistakenly believed they are always faster in a motor vehicle, when in reality many commuters can do more than 20mph.

On the other hand cyclists who break the law should be punished like any other drivers. It baffles me why so many cyclist thinks they are exempt from traffic laws. If they have a driving licence, they should get fined and points deducted for red light jumping and other traffic offences. Law breaking cyclist puts themselves in danger and give law abiding cyclist a bad name. RLJ cyclist annoys me far more when I am on my bike than when I'm in my car.

It would not be a bad idea to make cycle training part of the National curriculum in school. After all, swimming is compulsory, yet kids are far more likely to ride than to swim.

I ride in London every day and the incompetence, stupidity and arrogance shown by many cyclists is simply breathtaking. Red light jumping, cycling on pavement, riding up one way streets, riding against oncoming traffic on wrong side of street, riding at night with no lights, wrong position on road, filtering inside moving HGV, etc.

I am not making this up. I am minded to shoot a short video showing what I see every day.

The fact that more cyclists in London are not being killed is something I don't understand based on what I see every day.

One group seems to be novices/inexperienced/Boris bikers

the other group are the arrogant twits on expensive bikes who seem to believe the law does not apply to them (these are the ones I see cycling at speed through pedestrians using green lit pedestrian crossings)

This is a brilliant idea.

I hope that it can be followed up by making pedestrians take a test to obtain a license?

I think it's very important that we ignore the original premise behind the licensing of motorvehicles: that they are dangerous pieces of machinery that inconvenience other road users and should be restricted in use.

Ignoring this will enable us to continue to promote their use as "normal".

Hand in hand I hope that we can all agree to continue to attack cyclists as responsible for their own deaths at the hands of the operators of these machines and turn a blind eye to the evidence that over 2/3 of bicycle-car incidents have been found to be the fault of the car operator.

Thank you. I would like to leave you with a quote showing how unreasonable some of these cyclists can be, unlike you and I:

"National media outlets continue to portray “cyclists” as a homogeneous group of lawbreakers who must attain an unrealistic, ideal behavior before being granted designated room on our streets. On June 27, 2013, Canada’s National Post ran a widely circulated story that liberally tossed around the hideous word “scofflaw” yet provided no statistical evidence to back their claims that “too many” riders are disobeying the law. While these news stories continue to use anecdotal evidence to support their claims researchers are seeking the truth. A recent study conducted by Portland State University found that 94 percent of riders obeyed red lights – a fact that media outlets conveniently overlooked."
http://momentummag.com/features/can-north-america-become-civilized-cycli...

I am curious as to where in London more than half the riders jump the lights ? Westminster would be my guess with some of the worst infrastructure in the busiest part of the city.
on my London commute I see a small minority of idiots and only that and get a little tired of the hyperbole which deflects from the dangerous infrastructure.

Cycle training undoubtedly could help and is available.
However, who would police mandatory licensing of cyclists ? Given our justice system couldn't give a toss about cyclists I really

Personally I also think cycling training should be mandatory at school... however, two points:

1. There are literally hundreds of lobbyist/interest groups that petition for their thing to be made compulsory at school, from chess to financial education to Mandarin to cooking. There is only so much time in a school day/year.

2. Licensing cyclists is daft/pointless. The great majority of dangerous drivers have a licence. They've been taught to drive safely but choose not to. I don't see how the situation would be any different for cyclists (TBH my radical Daily Mail view here is that - with certain professional exemptions - you shouldn't be able to take a driving test until you're 25, which has the dual function of getting youthful braggadocio out of the way, and compelling folk to learn other ways of getting around; it would also reduce insurance premiums all round).

drfabulous0 wrote:

Well I have to disagree, we have the right to cycle on the road without any license or test, it makes little sense to have no cumpulsory basic training provided as part of the national curriculum.

What makes us think we have the right to cycle on the road without any licence or test? When you share the road with 5 ton+ trucks, some of the riding I see in London is shocking. I feel like pulling over some of those cyclists and giving them a slap for being so silly and endangering their lives. More than 50% of the cyclists on my route do not stop for a red light. Do we think that is ignorance or plain stupidity? 99% of motorists do stop for red lights. Which group do we think is the ignorant/arrogant lot when it comes to basic road regulations (ie stopping at red lights)? We all yap on about the ASL, but what about red lights? Pedestrian crossings? Every day I see cyclists not stopping for pedestrians, whilst cars and buses do stop!

How about accountability? For eg: last week I decided to drive into work rather than cycle, I wasn't feeling well. Whilst waiting at a traffic light a Cervelo rider decided to squeeze into the gap between me and the car in front. In the process scraping my bumper. I looked at him as soon as it happened and what did he do? No, he didn't stop to exchange details, he just rode of as fast as he could knowing full well that I could not catch up with him. Now if this was a car, I am sure all of us on this site would report it to the police. But what am I supposed to do, report a MAMIL riding a Cervelo? That is going to be easy to track down isn't it? I don't drive around with a camera in my car (or bike for that matter). Zero accountability = breaking rules and doing what you want to, knowing full well that you can escape punitive action in a busy rush hour setting.

As a group we get on out high horses and complain about poor car/truck driving. Look at it from the other side as well. There is a huge proportion of poorly trained, ignorant, arrogant cyclists who think it is their god given right to jump on a bike and ride the busy streets of London, just because they can. I am not for one moment saying that any of you per se fall into the above category, but a large proportion of cyclists do. And it is this group that worries me as a cyclist. Lets not just blame the motorists. There is a large proportion of idiots on cycles too. And unless you address both issues, you will not achieve a satisfactory solution.

Title: *BEFORE* ???

29 cycled all my life, 2 recent knee operations and I have only just passed my driving test.

I was probably one of the last few that did cycling proficiency at school. It should be compulsory.

I have yet to get back on the bike because of my knee, but I know this driving malarkey will inform my cycling, so I can see the argument for incorporating more awareness of cyclists in the test itself.

As someone who is late to driving, cyclists scare the s**t out of me and reaffirms my viewpoint that they are the most vulnerable road users. It makes me also want to get more training as a cyclist.

The roads are so busy, already I want to become a more aware and proficient driver.

There aren't many people like me. Both activities are very dangerous. I am conservative and risk averse and I will do anything to reduce that. Many drivers don't have any compunction to improve their skills once they pass, and cyclists think they have a "right" to cycle without formal training. Both are beyond daft.

I laughed at my driving instructor when he said only 1-2 in every 50 do the Pass Plus. I am about to book it. Like wtf? You think you are now a competent driver? Shut up.

I spent a long while commuting in Peterborough for work. My brother has just started in Manchester. But lord alive. Even though I would consider myself a competent cyclist there is 0 chance I would consider it in London. 0 chance. If you consider cycling there daily, you would want to make yourself as safe as possible and people don't. Jumping red lights, no viz gear, going down the left hand side of larger vehicles, positioning yourself badly in all respects etc etc.

News people. A lot of people have no idea how to cycle a bike safely. The standard of driving IMO is better than the standard of cycling.

The government need to improve the training more than the infrastructure IMO. The focus is that a lot of deaths are caused by the infrastructure and it no doubt has a part to play.

A programme on the BBC a year or so back on cycling/road use showed the CCTV from this girl being killed by one of these massive tipper jobs/concrete mixers. She was cycling straight down the road and the lorry turned left across her into a side street. In my opinion both were at fault. I would have been giving him so much more room ahead of me. It was also a narrow street/ one way street as well so she should have taken up a position behind him at the very least, not in the worst possible blind spot..

The mother campaigned for more mirrors and cameras when she took shares in the company. The company has had no deaths caused by their drivers since.
It works both ways.

(Although I have never tried it) TFL offer cycle training through their website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx.

There we go.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/bikeability/what-is-bikeability/

Put in your local authority, find lots of training providers. Lots of the training, even the advanced stuff, is free. I've been on a bike in various forms for over 30 years, starting with wobbling around a pub carpark, still think I could probably pick up a few things on awareness and road positioning.

Having said that, I do see some legal but shocking riding from inexperienced commuters. Not saying it should be compulsory, more very very useful.

I'm reminded of the poor father whose daughter was killed in the Ufton Nervet train crash. He's spent the years since campaigning for seat-belts to be fitted on trains. Utterly disproportionate, but you can imagine his thought process.

The problem is motorised traffic. If we reduce car and lorry traffic, there will be fewer casualties. We do this by making the alternatives - cycle, train, bus - more attractive. Compulsory cycle training, and for that matter seat-belts on trains, will make it less attractive and for that reason need to be strongly resisted.

I'd have to agree, but I think the cycling test would be best if it was mandatory for all road users, and a prerequisite for a motorcycle or driving license

Cycle training is actually very useful - even for experienced cyclists.
I'd cycled over 200,000 miles before I had any kind of training and driven around 300,000 miles, yet learned plenty on an NSI course. Yes, good cycle training is great and very valuable.

Should it be in some way compulsory?

Absolutely not!

Should pedestrians have proper training before venturing onto the road? Again absolutely not!

Should all road users be aware and make themselves aware of all the other road users on the road? Of course they should.

Should blind spots and not seeing ever be accepted as an excuse?

Of course not.

Should we accept on our roads any vehicle with significant blind spots where the driver cannot see what is going on all around the vehicle?

Of course not.

Do we just carry on accepting this nonsense or do we get ourselves heard, join campaigns, write to MPs, get in the media?

You tell me .....