Deliveroo riders' union in call for city centre cycle lane as part of "much-needed change" to support bicycle journeys

Mikeonthebike wrote:

... But wait til you hit one with your motor vehicle - then the full force of law descends upon you!

You mean they throw the book at you (the Beano)?

Is that actually true though?  The "full force of the law" appears to be really, really feeble for road offenses in many parts of the UK.  Or rather the outcome when someone drives into a vulnerable road user seems a lottery at best.  We see "police didn't bother bringing charges", "CPS negotiated charges downwards" / "magistrates or judges accepted inconsistent or illogical explanations from the defendent at face value".

BTW if they don't have their (colourful, reflective IIRC) Deliveroo livery how do you know who they work for?

Pretty sure it's mostly on those who have chosen to drive a potentially dangerous vehicle to do the most to avoid damaging others.

I've certainly seen some very stupid stuff done by delivery riders.  I'm not unhappy to have people who're behaving dangerously or antisocially or even breaking the law for (admittedly very little) money sanctioned.  However I suspect that's like trying to stop the trade in drugs by going after the low-level street dealers.  We should definitely be looking higher up the chain (e.g. the food delivery companies as a whole, the supply of "illegal on the roads without a licence or full stop" vehicles like some electric motorbikes) as well.

chrisonabike wrote:

Mikeonthebike wrote:

... But wait til you hit one with your motor vehicle - then the full force of law descends upon you!

Is that actually true though?

Maybe they drove into a police officer riding an e-bike? I can't think of any other situation that would result in this opinion.

Mooshcow wrote:

As a York DELIVEROO rider (on my non electric gravel bike) this cycle lane is much needed. This is because the council has pedestrianised the entire city centre meaning that it is illegal to cycle on the roads. It is therefore impossible to access the restaurants and deliver orders.

Impossible? Or a five minute walk?

Per order, 20 minutes of walking (at least 10 each way to restaurant). If you do say 20 orders per day, that's a lot of time spent walking. It is IMPOSSIBLE to access the restaurants on bikes.

Understand this.  But while not wanting to bash the "employees not employees" at the bottom several wrongs* don't make a right.

As usual if (a big if...) we actually considered what we wanted from transport / delivery / freight / "recreation" (including shopping and dining) I suspect we would end up with a very different model for transport and services.  York is in a minority as a small historic city with "narrow streets" (and indeed walls!) and a large tourist economy.

There is definitely a debate to be had and indeed even in countries with excellent active travel infra they are still working out what is a sensible balance given what some delivery companies are seeking to provide.

It was a while since I last visited York and while I could see changes since I lived there there is a ton of scope for the local authority to get off its backside and capitalise on what should be excellent conditions for promoting cycling (mostly flat, small size, "narrow streets", student population, tourist destination, an inheritence of some former railway lines etc.)

* These companies' entire business model!  Facilitating some less healthy behaviour and questionable "needs" by some consumers ("I click on it and it arrives at my door in minutes" - although there are certainly some more understandable use-cases here).  Making large pedestrian-only zones with no consideration for cycling access - of course not because "bad cyclists" but because the real problem is unpleasant motor traffic everywhere else.

Mooshcow wrote:

Per order, 20 minutes of walking (at least 10 each way to restaurant). If you do say 20 orders per day, that's a lot of time spent walking. It is IMPOSSIBLE to access the restaurants on bikes.

and more delays/colder food for the customer also

I'm definitely not a Deliveroo rider but I suspect a 5-10min walk isn't an option. Whilst I reckon young fit folks like them could manage their loads, leaving their bikes at the mercy of thieves isn't practical neither is a massive lock for them and their gig economy doesn't allow time for it anyway.

HLaB wrote:

I'm definitely not a Deliveroo rider but I suspect a 5-10min walk isn't an option. Whilst I reckon young fit folks like them could manage their loads, leaving their bikes at the mercy of thieves isn't practical neither is a massive lock for them and their gig economy doesn't allow time for it anyway.

I think the suggestion was to walk the bike through the pedestrian zone to the restaurant - so it wouldn't be any more at the mercy of thieves than now. But no, the time might not be viable the way the model works.  

As I see it no credits for the company.  This appears to be them simply calculating "something is being done by someone else (the GMB union) which might benefit our business.  If we give it the nod it might even benefit our reputation (as 'supporting our partner contractors').  No skin off our nose."

Of course I'm apt to be cynical as I question the entire business model of these businesses.  I know the delivery sector is cut-throat and has been a bit of a "grey area" for time, the less formal parts the more so.  However the business model of these food delivery companies seems to be based on outsourcing risk, employee support and other side-effects onto the general public / the taxman, while racing each other to the bottom on pay / employee rights.

mctrials23 wrote:

… have illegal throttle operated bikes …

That there is the Thing.

Does a Deliveroo 'contractor' - definitely not an employee, honest, guv! - need a cycle lane when they can zip around at 20-30mph without having to pedal?  All a cycle lane will do for them, surely, is allow them to intimidate the people riding around on bikes which aren't battery powered.

I don't know about "generally cause carnage", and suspect that might be hyperbole

Carnage is perhaps a little strong for what they cause but they are a nightmare at times. The thing that is most annoying is perhaps that they are lumped together with other cyclists and used as an example to bash us all. 

And no, they don't need cycle lanes beyond the fact they are on bikes and don't wear the same protective gear someone on a scooter might. 

At the risk of sounding very daily mail, they also have no identifying numberplate on throttle operated bikes making them answerable to no man. 

Not a fan of illegal electric motorbikes, however (for worse) they are also vulnerable road users, albeit they've made a somewhat antisocial choice (though not as much as many who drive without due care...)

mctrials23 wrote:

At the risk of sounding very daily mail, they also have no identifying numberplate on throttle operated bikes making them answerable to no man.

Just wait until you hear about cars!  ("We can't prove who was driving.  We did approach the registered keeper but they a) said they didn't know (being a hire company / a bus company / any company) or b) said their plates had been cloned or c) this is Scotland so they just said they didn't recall that.  We have therefore let the matter drop.")