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news
Cyclist Richmond Park (via YouTube)“It’s not a sports venue” – MP urges Richmond Park cyclists to slow down
Liberal Democrat MP Sarah Olney has urged cyclists in Richmond Park to slow down, telling a local radio station that “it’s not a sports venue.”
Covering 955 hectares, Richmond Park is the largest of London’s Royal Parks, and is hugely popular with all kinds of cyclists ranging from leisure riders including families with children to people on road bikes, drawn by the park’s 11-kilometre loop on roads that provide a mixture of flat terrain and a couple of sharp climbs and descents.
But with the park experiencing unprecedented visitor numbers for the time of year as people take outdoor exercise there during the current lockdown, tensions have arisen, with the Telegraph, for example, claiming last month that cyclists riding at high speed put other park users at risk.
Asked about the issue at the weekend, Olney told Radio Jackie: “I do find it frustrating that people are put off cycling by this sort of behaviour and there's no doubt that it’s a hazard.
“I would just implore cyclists, especially if they're in the park – which is a national nature reserve, it's not a sports venue – to be thoughtful.
“They need to observe the Highway Code, speed limits and they need to think about the impact of their behaviour on others.”
Tim Lennon, co-ordinator at Richmond Cycling Campaign, which is affiliated to London Cycling Campaign, told road.cc: “While we recognise there’s a small minority who break the rules while cycling in the park, there really is a bigger story here.
“Cycling by all age and ability groups has positively blossomed in the Royal Parks during the pandemic – we need to start treating complaints about cyclists breaking the law the same way we treat complaints about drivers breaking the law.
“Deal with the minority, rather than tarring everyone with the same brush.
“The borough has made big changes in the last year, but ratings-chasing, loaded interviews like this do nothing but hold back cycling as a simple, cheap, easy way to get around.”
Olney was first elected to Parliament for Richmond Park in a 2016 by-election when sitting MP Zac Goldsmith stood down to focus on his unsuccessful campaign as Conservative candidate for Mayor of London.
Goldsmith won the seat back the following year, but Olney defeated him in the December 2019 general election with a majority of 7,766.
Currently the Liberal Democrat spokesperson in three areas – transport, business and industrial strategy, and energy and climate change – last September, on car-free day, she tweeted a picture of herself and one of her children heading off to school.
Cycling the school run #CarFreeDay pic.twitter.com/YMCLhnvuje
— Sarah Olney (@sarahjolney1) September 22, 2020
In June last year, she also rode from her home to the Palace of Westminster to take part in a Parliamentary vote.
Obeying both the government’s instructions to vote in person today and avoid public transport, I’ve cycled to Parliament for the first time. It took me just over an hour from New Malden to Westminster. #cycletowork pic.twitter.com/oe9pKfyfR0
— Sarah Olney (@sarahjolney1) June 2, 2020
Her constituency includes the southern end of Hammersmith Bridge, currently completely closed on safety grounds, and last November in the House of Commons she urged the government to support a temporary cycling and walking bridge to enable people to cross the Thames there.
Ahead of the first national lockdown in March last year, motorists were banned from Richmond Park, with The Royal Parks subsequently also excluding cyclists other than children under 12 and NHS workers.
> Cyclists banned from Richmond Park due to “congestion”
The ban on all cyclists was gradually lifted from June last year, but in August the park was fully reopened to all road users, including drivers, in a move branded as “reckless and drastic” by cycling campaigners, and videos and photos posted to social media afterwards regularly showed park roads clogged with queues of motor vehicles.
> Richmond Park reopens to rat-running drivers after almost five months of car-free roads
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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As a cyclist and very infrequent driver the bottom half of the road.cc website often annoys me. When it's an article about poor motoring then the response (apart from a few trolls) seems to be what a bunch of ignorant muppets drivers are.. But when there is an article about poor cycling the comments are generally along the lines of 'What about the drivers'.
I don't live in London, I am aware that the park has a 20 mph limit though and I have cycled there. If you are at all in doubt that there are many cyclists who are cycling above this then head over to Strava and have a look at some of the segment times for this week alone. It's not just a few. I wonder if the proportion is any better or worse than motorists?
false equivalence, its not unreasonable to hold motorists to a higher standard, given a car has greater kinetic energy in a collision. also Strava is a self selecting subset of cyclists, its not all cyclists by any stretch of imagination
no-one has said there arent cyclists who speed in the park, or that they should be allowed to, but its UCI level of completely missing the point to think they represent anything but a really tiny problem to focus on. There are way more cyclists put off riding in RP because of the way cars treat cyclists in that park, or the way cars drive in that park, lets solve that problem first, because the more cyclists there are in the park, the less likely it is people will find the space to ride fast. that was actually the thing lockdown 1 taught everyone.
I generally find cars to be well behaved - can't always say the same of their drivers.
Over an hour to cycle from New Malden to Westminster? Blimey that's slow - she should get herself down to RP and get a few laps in to up her speed!
It's the fact that she did it that's important, not the time it took! She may be an MP but even MPs occasionally deserve credit!
It's about 12 miles by the most direct route, more like 14 if you go the safe backstreets way. There are plenty of traffic lights en route too. 14 mph is a perfectly respectable average commuter speed, and knocking people starting out, even if tongue in cheek, is hardly the best way to welcome new adherents.
It's also a probably a lot quicker than it would have taken her to drive/be driven the same distance in London traffic.
She should complain about the speeding motorists in Priory lane that goes to the park and has 20mph speed limit - at night it's often used as a performance test road, I live next to the road, I know what it's like.
On the issue of whether there is a speed limit, I thought (but this could be one of those 'facts' that turns out to have no basis) that the 1948 Olympic road race was moved from Richmond Park because of the 20mph speed limit.
According to this story on the Royal Parks' website the speed limt was reduced to 20mph last October.
https://www.royalparks.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/20mph-speed-li...
As for the 1948 story, according to the London Gardens' Trust wesbite: 'bye-laws prevented this'. That sounds lke the speed limit, doesn't it?
Windsor Great Park, not Richmond, and I don't think that was the reason.
I've read multiple sources claiming that the road race was planned for Richmond Park (which is where the Olympic Village was) but a byelaw was found prohibiting any events involving speeds in excess of 20mph and so it was moved to Windsor Great Park.
No, it DID happen in Windsor Great Park; the story is that is was meant to be in RP.
Probably best to ignore Sarah Olney, she is my local MP and pretty useless. Worth remembering that the majority of her constituents own big car(s). Yes, she has a bike which is invariably paraded for photo opportunities. Always appears around election time!
I used to ride in Richmond Park every day, but I now avoid it because tribal warfare has engulfed it.
Finally, if you want to witness Sarah Olney during her 'not' finest hour, there is always the infamous 2016 inteview with Julia Hartley-Brewer.
As I said, best ignored!
I'm a RP regular and in lockdown have been going to do a couple of laps once a week with a friend who is a bit less fit and a bit less confident - she's on a hybrid, I'm on my gravel bike. Last week we were beeped at while cycling two abreast on the lower approach to Sawyer's Hill, just as we'd got into the park, because a driver couldn't wait to get past us. I'm routinely overtaken on the 'Dutch train' segment between Pembroke Lodge car park and the turn-off to Ham by cars easily surpassing 20mph. A couple of weeks ago I was nearly knocked off near Richmond Gate as a 4x4 overtook a cyclist on the other side of the road while we were two abreast on our side - the driver honked the horn at me, but what if I'd been a car? I'd much rather Olney put her focus on the bad driving in the park than cyclists going a bit fast in sections.
I agree with other comments that exceeding 20mph on a bike on the RP descents is almost a given unless you brake hard the whole way down and/or are really nervous. It seems safer to me to descend under control but not slamming the brakes, rather than trying to keep to a speed limit that, frankly, few cars stick to. Last week I saw a report from a few years ago circulating on Twitter that showed the average speed for a car on the Broomfield Hill descent was 33mph.
Generally, though, the partial closure of the park to traffic has improved the situation from pre-pandemic. I would still welcome a shift back to just having the four corner carparks open, plus Pen Ponds/Isabella Plantation for blue badge users, but I can't see it happening.
A quote from the article
“Cycling by all age and ability groups has positively blossomed in the Royal Parks during the pandemic – we need to start treating complaints about cyclists breaking the law the same way we treat complaints about drivers breaking the law."
So, do nothing then. I can't see how that will help.
Btw, the park owes its entire existence to "sports" - Henry 8th wanted to hunt there...
But hunting is a civilised, upper crust type of sport. Any vagabond can sit astride a bike - hardly a real sport at all.
"The wrong type of cyclist"
Yeah I've seen this before by fellow cyclists on social media. We are all equal but some...etc etc
All road users / human groups have a minority who break the rules. If you generalise on that then you need to look at yourself in the mirror to see what you are turning into.
While it's great that she is riding a bike herself, and I applaud her for that, maybe she should be looking at the bigger issue of why cyclists are riding there in the first place? Because it's safer than the roads, so make the roads safe and some of those speedy cyclists will ride on the roads nearest their house instead of going to the park.
“They need to observe the Highway Code, speed limits and they need to think about the impact of their behaviour on others.”
Just cyclists?
Obviously I'm not discounting the possibility that some cyclists are being idiots, antisocial and dangerous.
But some genuine, non-sarcastic, questions: what are the speed limits, and are cyclists exceeding this? What specifically are they doing which is contrary to the highway code? Are they breaking actual rules, or just perceived rules?
speed limit in the aprk is 20, and yes cyclists exceed this by some margin on the downhills.
Well, that does sound dickish.
There are a number of very long, straight hills in the park where you'd go over 20 if you just pushed off gently at the top and freewheeled. There are no adjacent pavements and so it's not that dickish, in my opinion. Often it's the safest option to keep up with the traffic, on the flat bits if you ride along at 20mph you'll be overtaken by a stream of irate close-passing motorists.
It's the only place in London (possibly in Britain) where cyclists can actually be done for exceeding the speed limit, as far as I'm aware. It's a special Royal Parks rule, roads in the Royal Parks do not count as public highways and they set their own regs.
[/quote]
It's the only place in London (possibly in Britain) where cyclists can actually be done for exceeding the speed limit, as far as I'm aware. It's a special Royal Parks rule, roads in the Royal Parks do not count as public highways and they set their own regs.
[/quote]
I have read this a few imes over the years, has anyone ever been prosecuted for it rather than accepting a fixed penalty, since there is no requirement to have the ability to measure your speed (unlike in a motorised vehicle) then how can a prosecution succeed
I remember someone got fined £400 in court for doing 40 a few years back. I don't know the legal backing for it though I'm afraid.
Firstly, I'm not sure the premise is true, on either count. The Parks Regulations set the speed limits for vehicles, but (as is made explicit in the 2010 Amendment - it is arguably implicit in the older regulations too, as vehicles and pedal cycles are treated separately) that only applies to "mechanically propelled vehicles". It is also clearly stated in the policy on cycling that "Speed limits do not apply to cyclists within the parks" https://www.royalparks.org.uk/managing-the-parks/park-regulations-legisl...
Regarding elsewhere in the country, my understanding is that it depends on the legal basis of a speed limit. Most speed limits have their legal basis in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, and speed limits on that basis only apply to motor vehicles. However, speed limits could also be brought in using the TSRGD 2002 as the legal basis, and those could apply to cyclists. http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/cyclelaw/speed_limits.html
If there were a speed limit that applied to cyclist, I'm not convinced having no means of measuring your speed would be a sufficient defence, if the prosecution case can demonstrate you were in fact exceeding said speed limit - i.e. if it was an absolute liability offence. There is also an argument that if the actual speed is sufficiently above the legal limit then it should be reasonably obvious that the speed limit is being exceeded, even without a device to confirm.
Unless there is a written byelaw/bylaw there will not be a legal speed limit for cycles. And even if there was, it would be unenforceable due to the lack of having a mandatory speedometer on cycles. Of course riding around at stupidly dangerous speeds would be illegal under alternative RTA offences, like how driving 60mph on a NLS bendy narrow country lane would be illegal. Also the parts of the RTA do apply to more than just public highways.
I did a couple of laps of RP at the weekend. On the sections closed to motors I didn't see a single instance of dangerous or inconsiderate behaviour. There was a far wider range or rider types, ages and abilities than there usually is (everything from toddlers on scooters to grannies and granddads on shoppers) and everyone was looking out for each other. Sure, some people were still getting some TT training in - wasn't a problem as there was plenty of room for them to move safely out into the middle of the road when overtaking we mere mortals. It was just lovely, I've been riding in and around the park for nearly forty years and it was just about the nicest ride I've ever enjoyed there, despite the grim weather.
On the road sections still open to cars, there was even more selfishness, close passing, MGIF, hooting etc than normal, presumably peeved that "we" had "stolen" half of "their" roads.
Here's a thought Ms.Olney, shut all the roads to cars (save blue badge holder access to the caparks and maybe a shuttle bus), divide the roads into thirds with lines, one third for each direction and an overtaking lane in the middle for the faster riders. Job's a gooden.
Quick video of Saturday here if you're interested - coming down from Richmond Gate towards Roehampton Gate.
https://twitter.com/Rendel_Harris/status/1358069904600166408
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