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forum
The perfect front and rear cycle camera !! Can you help..
Hi All
My name is Steve from Techalogic safety cameras.. we focus on road safety cameras for motorcyclists, horse riders and of course CYCLISTS. Camera tech is our passion.
I am keen cyclist myself and have set myself a goal in 2022 to develop the perfect front and rear cameras for cycling. Its probably even more important to have a camera on your bike than in your car in my opinion. There are very few dedicated cycling cameras.
This really is a blank sheet of paper and the goal is to design, build and launch the prefect camera for cyclists needs.. So I thought that Roadcc forum members would be the best place to get some great ideas on what features and benefits cyclists really need..
I don't want to lead in with questions but would really appreciate it if you can feedback your ideas on the design, look and feel, mountings and all the features (like battery life, stability, Video Quality) that is important to you..
We would really appreciate you help and when the camera is launched will make a great half price offer for all Roadcc forum members that helped with the development.
Kind Regards
Steve
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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- brooksby 4 min ago
Maybe... I was taking a slightly wider interpretation, just *bringing* Nazis and Hitler into an argument
- mdavidford 45 min 17 sec ago
Presumably not featuring the miserable- looking pair who've been made to wear their kit?
- KiwiMike 1 hour 35 min ago
I have a NordVPN sub for using WiFi when travelling. ...
- chrisonabike 2 hours 25 min ago
There's a lot about, and once you're "woke" or sensitised to it it's hard not to see it. However I think it's essentially a category difference if...
- chrisonabike 2 hours 51 min ago
Good point. Although are they organised? Also fruitcakes have something to be said for them, even if they're a bit nutty.
- chrisonabike 2 hours 45 min ago
As a summary - hopefully we can do both eg. small but more achievable things that are slightly helpful for the cyclists of today....
- slc 5 hours 54 min ago
I'm really not sure. It was always a road I used on the bike because it is a fair bit quieter than the alternatives. There is often poor driving in...
- mdavidford 6 hours 29 min ago
Bonus video, and a police driver: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98yr0z9r1ro
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59 comments
Image stabilization through at least 8 axis.
Big buttons that can be used through gloves
Separate file lock button that locks previous 2, current and next 3 segments; auto sense potential alarm events such as sudden deceleration followed by sudden angle change
Selectable segment length
Auto write over old files
Minimum 128gb SD / micro SD storage
Removable battery with sensibly priced spares
Minimum 8 hours run / record time
On board GPS that can be utilised by 3rd party apps
Decent editing software that allows picture in picture as well as configurable data sets
Pairing between front and rear units ... Turn one on, and they both turn on.
Synchronised frame rates between paired units
Ability to use with a powerbank on the fly
Most cameras are far too complicated with options that nobody wants and they have a tendency to malfunction.
I want a simple reliable camera with at least 3 hours battery life to record my ride so I can make a video of any incidents. The Contour Roam was perfect for a helmet camera with 3 hours battery life. I have had two for nine years and both still work perfectly but battery life is now down to one hour. The Drift Ghost replaced them with 5 hours battery life but malfunctions frequently and has far too many complicated options. So I want simplicity, reliability, battery life well over what GoPro offer, and good picture quality at 720/60. The camera needs a helmet strap or rugged bar or seat post mount.
Amen.
I'd like a nice simple tubular unit that had a bit if a barrel that would fit perfectly in my exposure helmet mount. Just front facing, less worried about the rear, though if you could do both in a neat way that might work.
Just one more thing...
Glass lenses - especially for the rear where bits of grit may get thrown up at it and make a plastic lens go a bit cloudy over time.
By the way, Steve, thank you for asking.
Currently I have the Tooo Cycling rear camera/light as pictured, if you wish to find the details there is a post on Tech News on this site.
The size and weight are very important to me and this camera is the perect size, record time is about 5 hours with flashing light and 9 hours with no light.
Important things for me are:
1. Small profile, no bricks on the front, I prefer handlebar mount but think VR would be needed for this to be effective.
2. Bullet cam probably best shape for the front. Actually I am not bothered about a light in the front and think the Fly 12 might be a better size without one.
3. 5-6 hrs record time minimum
4. Must record over itself when the card is full
5. Mounts need to be easy to use, firm and easy to fit/remove from the bike
Currently I'm using this motorcycle dashcam.
What's good about it:
1. Front and rear combined - videos are in sync. Only one SD card, and one battery to deal with.
2. Turns on and starts recording automatically when powered on.
3. Not too expensive - about £100.
4. SOS button to lock recordings.
5. Files are split into chunks - selectable as 1 min, 3 min or 5 min.
6. Can be powered by a USB power pack, so doesn't need charging very often.
7. Takes a 128GB card.
What could be better:
1. Not a bicycle-specific product so installing it was a pain in the arse. I drilled holes in a couple of GoPro mounts and screwed the cameras to those.
2. Head unit, 2 cameras and SOS button all separate so ended up with a rats nest of wires. Would be much neater to combine the head unit, front camera and SOS button together with just one external cable to the rear camera.
3. Head unit isn't waterproof.
4. Microphone is terrible and usually just picks up wind noise.
5. GPS to set timestamp and speed overlay would be useful.
6. Video quality could be better, particularly at night.
A design that protects from muck and water spray, and an ability to quickly shed any that does hit it would be high on my list.
A month ago I bought a Techalogic DC-1, despite the hassle to get it imported from the UK to the Netherlands. So far I am very happy with the quality of the recordings and that it is very easy to operate. The only drawback is that in autumn season the battery life is a little below expactations but it still sufficient enough for my daily commute (30km a day).
Pretty much what others have said.
Minimum battery life 6+hrs with video and led flash
100 lumen back / 200 front
Side visibility of leds
Support for Ant+ Light profile so battery life seen on head unit.
Ideally gps location & estimated speed on video
High IPX spec.
Auto time sync / reset.
Picture button to take jpeg.
Freeze button for incidents clearly separated from power button.
Map of picture/ freeze button to head unit or di2 buttons.
Existing mounting format - Garmin/go pro etc.
SD card support to 1tb
Garmin Varia radar / ConnectIQ integration - show passing speeds and distance on video.
This is a key feature missing on the Garmin or Cycliq devices, and answers the need to minimise time spent on locking or subsequent viewing of videos.
The Garmin Varia Radar knows when a fast or close pass is coming and broadcasts on Ant+. The video camera should use that to store the threat level on each clip, with appropriate locking.
So you have a distinctive safety feature, highly automated for capture and subsequent use.
Having data and video is good but low cost of use would be epic.
Some ideas from a cycliq user:
Use a common standard mounting system. Ahem.. Gopro ..ahem that enables easy mount and removal with plentiful aftermarket options.
Scratch resistant lens.
Must be waterproof and robust.
Clear on/off indication.
Standard usb charging cable.
Record to a bog standard sd card.
Low light clarity and capable of dealing with dazzle.
Looping recording, new footage over old broken into short e.g 10 minute segments.
For a safety camera, I'm not too fussed about image stabilisation, high frame rates or other gimmicks unless they improve the primary function.
Personally I don't really value apps especially if they add a lot of cost and development time.
Priced at a point that means more cyclists, runners, lollipop crossing people, bin operatives, horse riders and anyone else who suffers all to frequent aggression on our roads can afford one, even car drivers!
Agree with all this. I don't understand why people have combined cameras and lights. I have good lights; I'd like good cameras and don't much want to pay again for less good lights.
And I dunno why apps help anyone. Move the video file to a computer using a cable and edit it there with any software. Perhaps I'm just a curmudgeon.
Combined light and camera is convenient for city commuting where you don't need super powerful lights. They're better for the rear where you don't need to have a strong beam.
Apps are the easiest way to configure a camera - the best other alternative is to have a text file where you change the settings, but that's more of a pain to do. I'd agree about not bothering with video editing within the app though it'd be good to be able to mark a point and it splices segments together to produce a 2minute (or whatever you want) clip either side of that point (note - I should find out how to do that with ffmpeg).
Agree with the need for an app for config: long trips I can recharge on the move/camping, and reset the clock.
Also:
I don't need a light on my camera - it's not there to do that; do one job well. I have lights.
Don't make the form like a Go Pro: you won't compete with Go Pro, and I want a camera for a different purpose. It needs to be relatively slimline like a Virb, Contour Roam or similar. But the image quality needs to be excellent - there's too much 'OK but not great' stuff.
As a fellow Cycliq owner (6CE), I believe that image stabilisation is essential to the primary function.
Don't be so hard on yourself Nigel!
How about front and rear cameras that sync their time (maybe just when using the controlling app). Also, an "incident" button on the front that can be pressed to record the time when an incident has just happened and prevents overwriting of the relevant video segment(s).
I previously shared these ideas with Cycliq since it seems odd not to have their products collaborate, especially when it is unsafe to reach for the rear camera lock button while riding. Sadly they didn't seem interested.
The Garmin Virb 360 already has two cameras working together but since it needs to be helmet mounted for a clear view is not safe in that position. Obviously helmets are not designed and tested for use with random levers attached. That would be like Anti-MIPS!
Ride safe..
An alternative would be one of those fancy 360° cameras that Jeremy Vine uses, but I recall someone on here stating that those aren't that great for commuting due to battery life.
It's a shame that Cycliq seem happy to just push out incremental changes with their products and not be a bit more innovative. Their cameras do seem to be the best for cyclists but they've got faults too.
Yes, agreed. Innovation is expensive so to be applauded from a small company like Cycliq. Garmin, a huge company, has abandoned quite recent products as soon as a successor is released. So Edge 1000 is abandoned due to 1030. Not what you expect from the top end device..
The more value add by software, the more we slide towards the smartphone 18 month innovation / obsolescence cycle. Sustainable it is not, though Right to Repair is slowly getting some traction..
Reliable battery level indicator at least 5 bars.
I use a Cycliq Fly12ce and Fly6ce for commuting with a Garmin Ace as my back-up lights for when the batteries die.
If you want to make the perfect camera is has to be better than those.
I would suggest:
- longer battery life (Cycliq have gone for smaller form in exchange for shorter battery life with each generation under the assumption that roadies are more likely than commuters to buy something that expensive and roadies care about size n weight. Comuters want battery life). I'd like mine to last a few days. When it goes into battery saver mode I'd appreciate a choice of light only or camera only (depending if I'v got another light), this setting could be changed in the app.
- waterproof rating - the Fly6ce gen3 is notorious for leaking, the gen2 with the USB and SD card slot on top wasn't ideal. I can't fault the Fly12ce for this.
- Warranty. 1 year is VERY disappointing for such an expensive product and suggests the manfacturer lacks faith in their product. EU law suggests it should be 2 years, so why not just offer AT LEAST 2 years warranty without anybody having to resort to legal battles? Personally I appreciate the 5 year warranty on my Ortleb bag. The only alternatives I know to Cycliq are Tooo who have no UK importer so no warranty here and Aldi occasionally sell a Cycliq Fly6v copy with a 2 year warranty for about £50 (mine died and I got my money back with no quibbling).
- better ability to read vehicle registrations in low light levels. It's a real problem for cameras; front number plates in the dark with oncoming headlights are usually impossible to read. I rarely get abused by drivers on a sunny day, it's usually dark and raining. This may be because I live in Glasgow.
- mountings - please not f*cking rubber bands (like those crappy ones See.Sense use). Something fixed to the bike with bolts and a quick release fitting similar to a Garmin makes more sense. For the front an outfront mount that puts the light underneath and has fittings for Garmin or a phone holder on top makes most sense (maybe if I could attach it to the underside of my Quadlock Out Front mount). For the rear an option to attach to saddle rails or a rear rack would be useful.
- reliable software. Cycliq have spent a lot of time improving this recently (or to be accurate, Michael Visser has on their behalf - you can find him in the Facebook group Cycliq Fly User Group - it might be worth asking for opinions there too, it's not an official Cycliq group). See.Sense's Android App still sucks despite years of development.
- buttons you can operate with gloves when it's cold and wet. Cycliq are bad at this. See.Sense are worse. And buttons that make it easy to differentiate the power button/light mode change from the lock video button. It's really annoying when you want to lock a file and switch the light off instead, or vice versa
- for city commuting if you're making a camera with a light in it (which makes sense to save space on the bars/seatpost and for convenience) how about an StVZO compliant front light? I often have to angle my Cycliq downwards to avoid dazzling people, which means the camera is also pointing down. Or a light that can easily be dipped light car headlights.
- Having said that ... a rear light/camera combo is fine because rear lights aren't all that bright so don't suck battery life, but on the front a camera without a light could be smaller and/or have a longer battery life while still leaving space for a separate light. I think I'd prefer this arrangement and then I'm free to choose my own front light instead of ending up with a compromise light that isn't bright enough for off-road use but dazzles other road users when used on-road. Not sure how I'm gonna find space for a light, my phone AND a camera though.
- shape/style - a cylindrical camera makes sense for the front/a helmet mount, but not for the seatpost where it'd look ugly and ungainly. It needs to sit upright (like and Exposure Blaze)
- I refuse to buy any electronic product that doesn't use USB-C charging. Everything else is either obsolete or should be, I don't want hundreds of different cables.
- a removable battery would be cool - so I can have one sitting charging while I'm using the other. I used to have this arrangement with my old Cateye front light. It was very convenient to arrive at work, swap the batteries over and that's my light ready for the journey home. Tomorrow's battery is charging for the next 24 hours.
I've got one of the first gen. Cycliq 12 front camera/lights and as far as I'm concerned its been an expensive paperweight most of its life. If I get another camera, requirements would be
- software needs to work on Android, not just iPhone and "we'll get Android working later"
- camera needs to show when its recording, rather than let you find out three hours later when you pull the SD card out to find it didn't save anything
- if it has a light then the light needs to work, always, every time, not be tied in to the firmware of the camera so that if (when) the camera hangs and half bricks itself you're stuck out somewhere at night with no light
- mechanically balanced on the mount so it doesn't spend its entire life gradually tipping forward or back due to battery weight, causing you to be continuously tightening the mount screw, then eventually stripping the mount threads so it doesn't work & needs to be tied on with a bungy strap
- headlight beam that doesn't piss off anyone heading towards you
- usb-c charging
- camera that doesn't tell you that 75% of class 10 SD cards are "corrupt" after anywhere from 30minutes to 6weeks use
I've got a first gen Cycliq 12 (from their KickStarter IIRC) too and it's surprisingly still going strong (though it rattles a bit from numerous drops onto concrete and I glued the front bit back on).
The android software is a bit crap, but you don't really need it - the biggest issue I have is with time synchronisation.
Haven't had an issue with not knowing that the camera is on - I know its turn on beeps and turn off beeps now.
When it goes into brick mode and won't turn on, you can easily get it working by poking a paperclip into the tiny reset hole in the back (next to the SD slot?).
Mounting it upside down seems to have solved any issues with it changing angle and haven't noticed issues with the light beam.
I've maybe gone through 2 or three SD cards in however many years I've been using it.
Stable image even with wide field of view.
Works at night.
Good battery life >6 hours.
Spare battery.
Good quality image able to cope with oncoming traffic so that the plate is readable.
Storage of 128 GB
Recording broken into segments
Loop recording of +- 2 mins either side as a minimum.
Waterproof
Light and small
Cost 150 - 200 max
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