What the heil? More men taking women's cycling titles

VeloUSA wrote:

The controversy will not cease until a third athletic category is added, one for trans athletes.

However, that doesn't seem to be what most trans athletes desire - as I understand it they wish to be treated the same as if they had been assigned their chosen gender at birth. There's also the issue that more than three categories may be needed as male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes if there's a big performance advantage one way or the other.

My solution would be to have categories based on a simpler physical attribute such as height or weight depending on what sport it is.

However, that doesn't seem to be what most trans athletes desire - as I understand it they wish to be treated the same as if they had been assigned their chosen gender at birth

I'm sure they do, but that's not what most XX female athletes want as I understand it, or what the World Athletics Council has wisely decided

male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes

Are there any of the latter?

wtjs wrote:

male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes

Are there any of the latter?

Yes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuyler_Bailar

wtjs wrote:

male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes

Are there any of the latter?

A few, Chris Mosier probably the most notable example: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier

Not many though as far as I'm aware.

Or they can just race in the men's category (as this issue only affects MaB in any real way). I.e., the "We're discriminated against by being barred from competing" argument is specious.

I fully support showing all respect possible for a person's preferred gender identity, but it is simply a cold, hard fact that there are large physiological differences between the MaB and FaB populations, particularly so after puberty, that have significant effects on aerobic capacity and strength, and these differences are not significantly erased by hormone treatment.

It is wrong to throw WaB under the bus, and deny them their protected category.

The race in question was actually, a gender neutral (all open) race, with mostly male participants. Tiffany finished 23:d. Se link to results in my other comment.

Do you have any basis for your argument? Can you point me to any results at elite level where these supposed differences in aerobic capacity manifest themselves? Pippa York says you are wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abgXEWQPlI

thax1 wrote:

Well, I'm sure as heil not clicking that link!

Can you post the pertinent details if it's worth a read.

Maybe this is the perfect use-case for ChatGPT? It can offer a brief précis of the bile of the Daily Mail without me having to boil my eyes afterwards.

Here is the headline and introduction which pretty much sums up the article.

Controversial trans athlete, 46, wins women's NYC cycling race and says she feels like a 'superhero' - as critics warn 'women's rights in America are being destroyed'

Tiffany Thomas, 46, dominated the field in an NYC cycling race at the weekend
She took up the sport aged 40 before quickly finding success 
Her success has been criticized amid claims trans athletes hold an unfair advantage in women's sports

By WILL POTTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 01:24, 23 March 2023 | UPDATED: 12:10, 23 March 2023

It says she took up the sport aged 40 - six years ago - but I haven't been able to google how long ago she transitioned.

brooksby wrote:

It says she took up the sport aged 40 - six years ago - but I haven't been able to google how long ago she transitioned.

I'm not sure but in another article it says

"The athlete must demonstrate that their total testosterone level in serum has been below 2.5 nmol/L for a period of at least 24 months and the total testosterone level in serum must remain below 2.5 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category."

so it probably was at least 8 years ago but it could have been many years earlier.

NOtotheEU wrote:

brooksby wrote:

It says she took up the sport aged 40 - six years ago - but I haven't been able to google how long ago she transitioned.

I'm not sure but in another article it says

"The athlete must demonstrate that their total testosterone level in serum has been below 2.5 nmol/L for a period of at least 24 months and the total testosterone level in serum must remain below 2.5 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category."

so it probably was at least 8 years ago but it could have been many years earlier.

Took up cycling six years ago. I very much doubt she was having blood tests for two years before that on the off chance that she might take up a sport. so racing probably 4 years ago at most.